Wagon Train Attacked by Indians (1858)

[Rooster 777]

Someone just brought this to my attention. In March of 1858, Brigham Young received word that the U.S. Cavalry, commanded by General Albert Sidney Johnston was en route to invade Salt Lake City. Young loaded-up all the Mormon gold and silver to escape the government headed for San Bernardino, CA. Young's wagon train full of gold and silver was attacked by Indians somewhere near Las Vegas. I'm guessing that some of the Mormons hastily buried some of the bullion in the vicinity of the attack. I'm trying to figure out where this attack took place, does anyone have any info on this event? Thanks!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[tamrock]

Seems I've read this story before, but instead of an attack by native people it was thought to be a band of Mexican Bandidos who would rob travelers along the trail to southern California.

 

[Rooster 777]

Seems I've read this story before, but instead of an attack by native people it was thought to be a band of Mexican Bandidos who would rob travelers along the trail to southern California.

As you know, there were all kinds of wagon train attacks in the Old West, this one was specifically Native American. Thanks!

 

[Zakon Krzyżacki]

Dang natives always messing everything up!
Creole Nation!
Choctaw Nation!

Where the Eagle flies!

 

[Zakon Krzyżacki]

Your avatar reminds me of an old friend on here Texas_Red or something.
My memory isn't what it used to be.

Life is too damn short!

 

[Rooster 777]

Your avatar reminds me of an old friend on here Texas_Red or something.
My memory isn't what it used to be.

Life is too damn short!

I grew up on a small ranch in So. Cal, my dad kept Rooster's, they would perch in the citrus trees and wake us up in the morning.

Cheers!

 

[J.H.Crenshaw]

Interesting side note to this story is that under general Johnson’s command, William Quantrill was hired as a teamster for the expedition to Utah, it ts said Quantrill earned a lot of gold playing poker at fort bridger…….

 

[MiddenMonster]

Young loaded-up all the Mormon gold and silver to escape the government headed for San Bernardino, CA. Young's wagon train full of gold and silver was attacked by Indians somewhere near Las Vegas. I'm guessing that some of the Mormons hastily buried some of the bullion in the vicinity of the attack.

This is where I get suspicious and have to ask a logistics question. When attacked by Indians, why further diminish your defensive power by tasking people to bury your gold and silver? If you win the battle, you still have it. If you lose the battle, it doesn't matter. Plus, the manpower needed to bury the gold and silver increases proportionally to how much gold and silver there is. And if the Indians are attacking in the desert near Las Vegas, wouldn't they see the people who are digging the hole for the gold and silver, kill them after the battle and investigate the hole?

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just try to put myself in that situation and reason out what I would do. And with, "Don't get dead" being the primary rule I would either fight if I thought I could win, or cut the gold and silver loose and hightail it out of there if I thought I could get away. As a last resort you fight to the death if your chances are slim, but slightly better than escaping. The last thing I would do it lower my chances of winning or escaping even further by expending manpower to bury gold and silver.

One other thing to consider is what was the outcome of the Indian attack? If the Mormons won, chances are they did the Jen Psaki thing and circled back at some point to retrieve the cache. If the Mormons were wiped out and no one survived, there is still a chance the cache is still there if it existed and was buried. But if even one Mormon survived, we circle back to the circle back thing.

 

[jeff of pa]

Sorry ! From just 1858 I Got 676 Matches · "Brigham Young"Attacked By Indians from 1858 at Newspapers.Com
One mentions a Camp Being attacked near Cedar City.
Very tiny Print Very Long story , another Mentions a Mail Shipment with the Mail Being destroyed. I would suggest You
Subscribe to https://www.newspapers.com/ & Do some Extensive checking in case the Year is wrong

 

[Rooster 777]

This is where I get suspicious and have to ask a logistics question. When attacked by Indians, why further diminish your defensive power by tasking people to bury your gold and silver? If you win the battle, you still have it. If you lose the battle, it doesn't matter. Plus, the manpower needed to bury the gold and silver increases proportionally to how much gold and silver there is. And if the Indians are attacking in the desert near Las Vegas, wouldn't they see the people who are digging the hole for the gold and silver, kill them after the battle and investigate the hole?

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just try to put myself in that situation and reason out what I would do. And with, "Don't get dead" being the primary rule I would either fight if I thought I could win, or cut the gold and silver loose and hightail it out of there if I thought I could get away. As a last resort you fight to the death if your chances are slim, but slightly better than escaping. The last thing I would do it lower my chances of winning or escaping even further by expending manpower to bury gold and silver.

One other thing to consider is what was the outcome of the Indian attack? If the Mormons won, chances are they did the Jen Psaki thing and circled back at some point to retrieve the cache. If the Mormons were wiped out and no one survived, there is still a chance the cache is still there if it existed and was buried. But if even one Mormon survived, we circle back to the circle back thing.

From what I was told, some of the bullion was marked and made it's way into circulation after the attack. There are so many scenarios, some of the Mormons may have died at the hands of the Natives after burying loot etc. I'm just trying to figure out the actual location for obvious reasons, there might be "Gold in them thar hills." : )

 

[Rooster 777]

Sorry ! From just 1858 I Got 676 Matches · "Brigham Young"Attacked By Indians from 1858 at Newspapers.Com
One mentions a Camp Being attacked near Cedar City.
Very tiny Print Very Long story , another Mentions a Mail Shipment with the Mail Being destroyed. I would suggest You
Subscribe to https://www.newspapers.com/ & Do some Extensive checking in case the Year is wrong

Just getting started with the DD. Thanks!

 

[MiddenMonster]

From what I was told, some of the bullion was marked and made it's way into circulation after the attack. There are so many scenarios, some of the Mormons may have died at the hands of the Natives after burying loot etc. I'm just trying to figure out the actual location for obvious reasons, there might be "Gold in them thar hills." : )

Hmmm...if some of the bullion made its way into circulation following the attack, we can reasonably conclude that at least one person escaped with their life. On the downside, if the gold and silver were buried before the attack, yet some was put into circulation after the attack, it would seem that at least one survivor came back and retrieved some of it. So that raises the question of why didn't they retrieve all of it, or at least retrieve all of it over the remainder of their life/lives? And along those lines, the more people who escaped with their lives, the more likely all the gold and silver were recovered. Call it gold fever or human greed, it is what it is.

And to throw a wildcard into this, if it happened near Las Vegas and the mafia knew about this legend well, it's Katie tar the whore at that point!

 

[Rooster 777]

Hmmm...if some of the bullion made its way into circulation following the attack, we can reasonably conclude that at least one person escaped with their life. On the downside, if the gold and silver were buried before the attack, yet some was put into circulation after the attack, it would seem that at least one survivor came back and retrieved some of it. So that raises the question of why didn't they retrieve all of it, or at least retrieve all of it over the remainder of their life/lives? And along those lines, the more people who escaped with their lives, the more likely all the gold and silver were recovered. Call it gold fever or human greed, it is what it is.

And to throw a wildcard into this, if it happened near Las Vegas and the mafia knew about this legend well, it's Katie tar the whore at that point!

We have no idea what happen or how the Mormons reacted, just a story handed down from generations. If I figure out the location of the attack, I'll leave no stone unturned and hit every natural landmark with the MD. Coming up short with internet searches related to this event, next step, scouring the massive 240,000 sqft public library in Salt Lake City.

As for the mob in Las Vegas, they didn't exist here in 1858.

I actually like that there is very little info regarding this attack, it make for betting odds finding something at the site. I would be thrilled to find ferrous artifacts as well.

 

[MiddenMonster]

As for the mob in Las Vegas, they didn't exist here in 1858.

True, but they were there in 1945, which is what I meant. They may have even found it when they were burying a body. Don't put anything past that Bugsy Siegel.

 

[UnderMiner]

I'm still looking for the Mexican gold that Emperor Maximilian sent north into the States so it wouldn't fall into the hands of his enemies. Nobody really knows what happened to the gold of Imperial Mexico after the government collapsed, some think it was found by Indians and hidden in caves but then the US government found it and turned the land into a bombing range so no civilians could ever venture to find any more secret caches the government might have missed.

 

[Bill]

ok I have been reading these posts, and now is the time for the truth. In the mid 90's, I read the same story. I am a professional treasure FINDER from Fla. and the Caribbean. I lived in LV at the time, and decided to look this up. I traced the story to the Red Rock Canyon area west of LV.
I found the burned wagons in the desert slightly west of the canyon. I searched the area with no other find. BUT, I told a neighbor about the story, and guest what? He told me that a lady friend of his found a gold Mormon coin very near to where i found the wagons. That area is now a park.

 

[MiddenMonster]

I found the burned wagons in the desert slightly west of the canyon.

What leads you to believe that these are the wagons from the Indian attack on the Mormons? Granted, it is a dry desert. But I have to wonder how long the remains of burned wagons would 1) survive and still be recognizable, and 2) not be buried by blowing sand and dirt.

 

[Bill]

Sir, you obviously do not prospect in these deserts. I am part Native American with friends of the same. My close friend is a Kiowa Apache Shaman. I know things that I wont divulge. Go back and read my post again. (I am a professional ) As to things being covered over by blowing sand, I have picked up many gold pieces lying on the sand which have been there for many hundreds of years. I hope this helps.


























as

 

[MiddenMonster]

Sir, you obviously do not prospect in these deserts.

That's true. I don't. Never have. I'm just asking what about this leads you to believe it is from a Mormon wagon train, as opposed to say a wagon train from the turn of the century or the Oklahoma Dust Bowl.

I know things that I wont divulge.

The only thing you said that makes me suspicious. Statements similar to that are like mushrooms after a Spring rain here from people who don't want to provide information to back up what they say. Secret information. We don't know. We don't wanna know. Lives are in danger. Sworn to secrecy. Legal ramifications. People have died for knowing what I know. I could go to prison. I'd like to tell you, but...

 

[Bill]

How old are you son?