Video - Adventures in the Superstition Wilderness

[RG1976]

Lol I think Ryan is getting caught up with all the Dutchman lore and clues o. This thread. I like his angle! He seems to be a likable guy so we all want to help him. Kindness gets you some ware. His next film might be titled "The found Dutchman's mine"

I've been out shooting new footage for video 4, actually!

Now all this talk of rock "DNA" is interesting - learning a lot.

But..... Tell me if I'm wrong.

The "matchbox" has absolutely no evidence as being authentic. It's another piece of "lore and legend" that tries to justify countless Dutch Hunter's that have been out looking.

Regardless if its authentic, its a beautiful piece....and I doubt that the owner will destroy it, to have it assayed. There is nothing that says that came from the LDM. It could be from a source of gold ore anywhere in the country. So for me - there is no point in even wondering about the authenticity of the matchbox because - its not a clue that can be used as evidence. Also, the legend says that the dutchman could just walk into his mine and pick up all the gold all over the floor. The legend doesn't say ore....it says gold. The matchbox is made from ore. If the whole LDM is true - which at this point is doubtful - I would believe he came across a cache of gold - as many members here have speculated.

The matchbox - the clues - the Stone Maps .... they are all filed into a box in my head that says "propaganda to keep the legend alive". The same goes with the "candle box - bag o' gold" under the bed. Legend says that Waltz died at Thomas' house - after his house was swept away by the salt river. Waltz, legend says, crawled up a tree in his front yard to evade the rising waters. Im doubting an 80(81) year old man climbed up that tree with a 50 pound stash of gold - he didn't even have the energy to continue to return to his mine. If the storm was strong enough to wash away his house....it also probably washed away the stash of gold in the candle box.

For me - when I am reading all the stories - I use the mind of a skeptic and my skeptical mind is really leaning towards the answer that was given by CubFan64 on behalf of friend (as part of this thread).

Try to remove yourselves from the "hope" behind finding the LDM - and look at what people are saying. Read the legends for what they are. What makes this, and all other treasure stories, a legend; is that they are all based on conjecture and heresay. For every clue there is - there will be 2 clues to discount the first......as we have witnessed as part of this thread.

That doesn't mean I don't believe there is gold in the range - I certainly do - and I plan to prove it with my upcoming videos and the help of some of the members here.

 

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[UncleMatt]

I completely agree.

I pointed this out earlier here:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...-most-likely-planted-fakes-4.html#post4402726

"I too recognize many elements all treasure tales have in common: 1) Treasure/cache/mine/ore site claims to be found 2) Those are then claimed to be lost (often due to the action of Natives or natural elements 3) People decide to believe in the tale, no matter the lack of evidence to support such belief 4) The searching begins, and often never ends with success.

It seems there are also a limited number of reasons such tales are created and believed to begin with 1) People without hope of wealth cling to the idea of becoming wealthy 2) tales are spread to draw people to an area for economic reasons (to draw in tourists) 3) People desire to elevate their status by claiming to know things that are not known by others 4) People make money from selling stories to media or the sale of maps 5) Delusions brought on by environmental factors or mental illness."

 

[captain1965]

I believe the legend says Waltz hid his gold under stones at his fireplace in his adobe house. He had Rynheart retrieve the gold and bring it to his bedside. I'm sure others here could tell that story better than me.

 

[Azquester]

I've been out shooting new footage for video 4, actually!

Now all this talk of rock "DNA" is interesting - learning a lot.

But..... Tell me if I'm wrong.

The "matchbox" has absolutely no evidence as being authentic. It's another piece of "lore and legend" that tries to justify countless Dutch Hunter's that have been out looking.

Regardless if its authentic, its a beautiful piece....and I doubt that the owner will destroy it, to have it assayed. There is nothing that says that came from the LDM. It could be from a source of gold ore anywhere in the country. So for me - there is no point in even wondering about the authenticity of the matchbox because - its not a clue that can be used as evidence. Also, the legend says that the dutchman could just walk into his mine and pick up all the gold all over the floor. The legend doesn't say ore....it says gold. The matchbox is made from ore. If the whole LDM is true - which at this point is doubtful - I would believe he came across a cache of gold - as many members here have speculated.

The matchbox - the clues - the Stone Maps .... they are all filed into a box in my head that says "propaganda to keep the legend alive". The same goes with the "candle box - bag o' gold" under the bed. Legend says that Waltz died at Thomas' house - after his house was swept away by the salt river. Waltz, legend says, crawled up a tree in his front yard to evade the rising waters. Im doubting an 80(81) year old man climbed up that tree with a 50 pound stash of gold - he didn't even have the energy to continue to return to his mine. If the storm was strong enough to wash away his house....it also probably washed away the stash of gold in the candle box.

For me - when I am reading all the stories - I use the mind of a skeptic and my skeptical mind is really leaning towards the answer that was given by CubFan64 on behalf of friend (as part of this thread).

Try to remove yourselves from the "hope" behind finding the LDM - and look at what people are saying. Read the legends for what they are. What makes this, and all other treasure stories, a legend; is that they are all based on conjecture and heresay. For every clue there is - there will be 2 clues to discount the first......as we have witnessed as part of this thread.

That doesn't mean I don't believe there is gold in the range - I certainly do - and I plan to prove it with my upcoming videos and the help of some of the members here.

Ryan, Please do a Video of the Rendezvous this year. That way you can put faces to the names telling all of these fabulous stories with their versions of evidence and facts backing it up.

I think that would be priceless!


They all tell tales they know around the campfires and give speeches during the day about their versions of the Dutchman's locations or versions of the Peralta Stones deciphering and where they think the mines or Treasures are located.

It's a real hoot! You might even learn more for future Video's!

They have it every year at the same site right near the entrance to Peralta Trailhead.
You can usually find it real easy when you get close just look up in the sky for the large multi colored Flying Dutchman shaped Pirate Balloons. You see, it Coincides every year with the Balloon Festival! They launch right from the campsites. How do you think all those Balloons get their supply of Hot Air? hehehe

Can't wait to see the new Vid's hope you spice um up a little tired of listening to those old Dutchman crybaby songs. Try running and falling with the camera and playing some good old Dutchman Rock & Roll like: "Running with the Devil Dutchman" or "I'm on the Dutchman's Highway to Hell" or even some heavier metal's, or some Gold-en Oldies!

That would be trick!

It brings back many old memories for all us that can't do the dew anymore!

Later......

 

[releventchair]

I've been out shooting new footage for video 4, actually!

Now all this talk of rock "DNA" is interesting - learning a lot.

But..... Tell me if I'm wrong.

The "matchbox" has absolutely no evidence as being authentic. It's another piece of "lore and legend" that tries to justify countless Dutch Hunter's that have been out looking.

Regardless if its authentic, its a beautiful piece....and I doubt that the owner will destroy it, to have it assayed. There is nothing that says that came from the LDM. It could be from a source of gold ore anywhere in the country. So for me - there is no point in even wondering about the authenticity of the matchbox because - its not a clue that can be used as evidence. Also, the legend says that the dutchman could just walk into his mine and pick up all the gold all over the floor. The legend doesn't say ore....it says gold. The matchbox is made from ore. If the whole LDM is true - which at this point is doubtful - I would believe he came across a cache of gold - as many members here have speculated.

The matchbox - the clues - the Stone Maps .... they are all filed into a box in my head that says "propaganda to keep the legend alive". The same goes with the "candle box - bag o' gold" under the bed. Legend says that Waltz died at Thomas' house - after his house was swept away by the salt river. Waltz, legend says, crawled up a tree in his front yard to evade the rising waters. Im doubting an 80(81) year old man climbed up that tree with a 50 pound stash of gold - he didn't even have the energy to continue to return to his mine. If the storm was strong enough to wash away his house....it also probably washed away the stash of gold in the candle box.

For me - when I am reading all the stories - I use the mind of a skeptic and my skeptical mind is really leaning towards the answer that was given by CubFan64 on behalf of friend (as part of this thread).

Try to remove yourselves from the "hope" behind finding the LDM - and look at what people are saying. Read the legends for what they are. What makes this, and all other treasure stories, a legend; is that they are all based on conjecture and heresay. For every clue there is - there will be 2 clues to discount the first......as we have witnessed as part of this thread.

That doesn't mean I don't believe there is gold in the range - I certainly do - and I plan to prove it with my upcoming videos and the help of some of the members here.

So you too dismiss Kollenborn's affidavit or view it as an unrelated ore?
Hard to sort truths ain't it.
Everyone buys into what they will.
Myself buys the notion ol Jacob had chickens pre flood. Not always required but unless someone looks after them during the owners absence it is a home once a day deal.
Eggs to collect and a hen ran dry with no water will not produce worth a toot. Plus depredation risks. Odd, but eggs were ,well eggs.
An assured source having your own birds might strike a guys fancy enough to take care of them. Kinda like having a stash of nice ore.
Suits someone retired.
He wanted to keep his source secret and did.
Possibly his cache somewhere followed extraction,whether the hard earned way or by plundering a previously mined source.
A mine visit in later days when attention was focused on him IF enough ore was stashed elsewhere would be unlikely.
The mine or source would be claimed/worked by another actually claiming , or covered/camouflaged big time by Jacob regardless of who originated it.
Deathbed Jacob. Why would he divulge any location? He had allegedly bailed Julia out once. Other people were aware he had had, even if limited, a source and would have their ears up and be watching.
How he felt about those visiting him during his illness would factor, he may have been disappointed.
Did he bring up the mine subject or did someone else with a vulture look in their eye? We have legend to tell us.
As well as the secret that nagged others wanting to know his source; being kept just to keep it.
A long practiced habit of keeping things to himself as he knew about mining and claims, contests, and the best and worst of it.
Were a reason to give the ore's source to someone and especially a mine's location be arrived at,who would have been able to hit it and not be found out? A non miner not a good bet.
Would have been easier to assign an experienced miner or desert rat familiar with the area for a cut if legalities were resolved.
Too, with old Jacob dead what if some one or multiple people exposed themselves and the source?
It would be of no comfort to Jacob after the madness subsided and Julia headed to Cali or where ever with whom ever.
Or leave his hard won ore to a drunkard? Nahhh.
It was not a snap of the fingers death. He had time to ponder. If it is believed from legend....

 

[captain1965]

We can all choose to believe or not to believe some or all the clues regarding this "legend"
As far as what I believe Waltz reportedly pointed at the Superstition Mountains and said he found a "mine". And some of those whom he told spent a lifetime searching for it.
I believe!! I have enjoyed hunting for this treasure with my son! The treasure is in the hunt! :-)

 

[RG1976]

I believe the legend says Waltz hid his gold under stones at his fireplace in his adobe house. He had Rynheart retrieve the gold and bring it to his bedside. I'm sure others here could tell that story better than me.

Could be. I haven't heard that story yet - but I'm open to it.

The first thing that comes to my mind though .... his house was washed away with the flooding of the salt river. Given your proposal that his house was made of adobe - well, that house was done for!

My statement still applies - his house was washed away in a storm - a huge storm. We just had one similar out here just this past season. We watched on the news as homes, trailers, cars and who knows what else - were destroyed. And that is with modern day building tech. Don't mess with Mother Nature!

Regardless if the "bag o' gold" was under the foundation of the "adobe" house - kept in his kitchen cabinet - under his bed - or under a rock in a fire place.....the house was obliterated - as evidence of no one ever being able to find it! (I wish i could though, that'd make great footage on a video!) Great info on his raising chickens - further fits what CubFan64 suggested - and something I didn't know!

In regard to Rhinehardt - if he did indeed go and rescue the gold - it really sucks that same gold was given to Holmes. Man - I'd be pissed! Wouldn't you?

 

[RG1976]

I have enjoyed hunting for this treasure with my son! The treasure is in the hunt! :-)

Bravo! And that - I will ALWAYS agree with. This opportunity has given me hours and hours wondering around the desert with my father - while he laughs at me making videos. They are memories I will always cherish - and that - is treasure.

And no - Captain1965 isn't my dad! lol

 

[RG1976]

So you too dismiss Kollenborn's affidavit or view it as an unrelated ore?

I am not familiar with Kollenborn's affidavit. Is that something that would be allowable to post here?

 

[releventchair]

From post #178 earlier.


"I have also seen shipping papers sending the ore to a jewelry company in San Francisco requesting that a matchbox, ring, tie pin and cuff links be made from the ore. I have seen the shipping papers shipping this jewelry back to Phoenix. I have also seen the matchbox and the ring made from this ore, and I have seen the tie pin and the cuff links."

And just for the heck of it, some pretty from the Gold Road Mine to the N.W..

 

[RG1976]

From post #178 earlier.


"I have also seen shipping papers sending the ore to a jewelry company in San Francisco requesting that a matchbox, ring, tie pin and cuff links be made from the ore. I have seen the shipping papers shipping this jewelry back to Phoenix. I have also seen the matchbox and the ring made from this ore, and I have seen the tie pin and the cuff links."

And just for the heck of it, some pretty from the Gold Road Mine to the N.W..
View attachment 1154277

Thanks for that!

Seeing ore shipping somewhere has absolutely no correlation to that ore being from the LDM & that was my point.

The ore that you are speaking of could have come from anywhere in the world.

Now if we could see some sort of proof that a Pertrasch brother - Thomas or Holmes paid to have those items made, that'd be a different story.

Pretty picture though! I hope I have as much luck as you did – to find something like that!

 

[releventchair]

Thanks for that!

Seeing ore shipping somewhere has absolutely no correlation to that ore being from the LDM & that was my point.

The ore that you are speaking of could have come from anywhere in the world.

Now if we could see some sort of proof that a Pertrasch brother - Thomas or Holmes paid to have those items made, that'd be a different story.

Pretty picture though! I hope I have as much luck as you did – to find something like that!

I found the picture on the internet.
But good hunting to you...

 

[RG1976]

Well fine! I take back the compliment then! Lol

 

[captain1965]

I don't believe we will know without a doubt until the gold is compared to a mine found. As of now what is reported as "known Dutchman ore" has not been confirmed as ore from any known source. Holmes claiming his ore is that of Waltz's mine doesn't make it true but does fit the story. Not to mention he did spend his life trying to find the source.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

RG, my main computer has crashed, so I am using the lap top. But when I have it running properly I will post a picture of adobe structures withstanding floods. They are remarkably resilient to flood waters.

 

[captain1965]

RG, my main computer has crashed, so I am using the lap top. But when I have it running properly I will post a picture of adobe structures withstanding floods. They are remarkably resilient to flood waters.

I have also seen flood pics were all that is left after a flood is a fireplace.

 

[sgtfda]

It was the father who dug up the gold in The house floor and placed it in the candle box

 

[captain1965]

It was the father who dug up the gold in The house floor and placed it in the candle box

Hay Frank

Can you elaborate?

Thanks Jon

 

[sgtfda]

Just something I read that old man Petrach was a friend of Waltz in Germany. He had him retrieve the ore. Could be bull. Someone put it in a candle box. Only Waltz knows for sure. On many things.

 

[azblackbird]

I too recognize many elements all treasure tales have in common: 1) Treasure/cache/mine/ore site claims to be found 2) Those are then claimed to be lost (often due to the action of Natives or natural elements 3) People decide to believe in the tale, no matter the lack of evidence to support such belief 4) The searching begins, and often never ends with success.

It seems there are also a limited number of reasons such tales are created and believed to begin with 1) People without hope of wealth cling to the idea of becoming wealthy 2) tales are spread to draw people to an area for economic reasons (to draw in tourists) 3) People desire to elevate their status by claiming to know things that are not known by others 4) People make money from selling stories to media or the sale of maps 5) Delusions brought on by environmental factors or mental illness."

Quoted for truth!