Victorio Peak - One Thing I struggle to Reconcile

[Randy Bradford]

Full disclosure, I'm a novice when it comes to this treasure site and I know there are a lot of folks on here that have been researching a lot harder and a lot longer than I could ever hope to. I take most of what I read at face value, in the absence of anything concrete to the contrary. I'm not a zealot though, and I appreciate the value of having different perspectives on any topic. That said, something has been really sorta bouncing around in the back of my head...

The sheer volume of treasure alleged to be in Victorio Peak would suggest that it is unlikely it was brought in through the shaft that Noss found. Noss himself claimed in some version that there was a way out from the side that was covered over with boards and that light came in. Additionally, Fiege is alleged to have found a side way in and seen the bars firsthand as well. It seems to me as well that one of the Treasure hunting teams that came in found a side entrance and recovered a bar in the process. All signs point to a side entrance, and common sense would suggest that so many tons of gold bars (among other things) would have likely been deposited by use of a side entrance.

My question is this, why would there have ever been a shaft in the first place? It's much easier to bring the treasure in from the bottom than taking it to the top and bringing it down a piece at a time through a shaft. What function would the shaft have ever served given it's impracticality as a means of introducing the treasure to the caverns?

 

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[BennyV]

Full disclosure, I'm a novice when it comes to this treasure site and I know there are a lot of folks on here that have been researching a lot harder and a lot longer than I could ever hope to. I take most of what I read at face value, in the absence of anything concrete to the contrary. I'm not a zealot though, and I appreciate the value of having different perspectives on any topic. That said, something has been really sorta bouncing around in the back of my head...

The sheer volume of treasure alleged to be in Victorio Peak would suggest that it is unlikely it was brought in through the shaft that Noss found. Noss himself claimed in some version that there was a way out from the side that was covered over with boards and that light came in. Additionally, Fiege is alleged to have found a side way in and seen the bars firsthand as well. It seems to me as well that one of the Treasure hunting teams that came in found a side entrance and recovered a bar in the process. All signs point to a side entrance, and common sense would suggest that so many tons of gold bars (among other things) would have likely been deposited by use of a side entrance.

My question is this, why would there have ever been a shaft in the first place? It's much easier to bring the treasure in from the bottom than taking it to the top and bringing it down a piece at a time through a shaft. What function would the shaft have ever served given it's impracticality as a means of introducing the treasure to the caverns?

Some think that they actually smelter bars there. That shaft was used as a chimney.

 

[Randy Bradford]

Some think that they actually smelter bars there. That shaft was used as a chimney.

Which leads one to wonder, why was there a ladder in the chimney when Noss found it? An operation that big would nee a lot more than one chimney I think...but it's as good a thought as any. Appreciate the feedback.

To your point, I forgot Noss claimed there was a smelter and bellows on site. Seems strange though because nothing suggests the gold was mined there that I'm aware of.

Seems an early version of the story also has Doc starting a fire inside while Ova watched for smoke coming out but none did that they could see.

 

[sdcfia]

Which leads one to wonder, why was there a ladder in the chimney when Noss found it? An operation that big would nee a lot more than one chimney I think...but it's as good a thought as any. Appreciate the feedback.

To your point, I forgot Noss claimed there was a smelter and bellows on site. Seems strange though because nothing suggests the gold was mined there that I'm aware of.

Seems an early version of the story also has Doc starting a fire inside while Ova watched for smoke coming out but none did that they could see.

Noss was a lifelong liar, sociopath, convicted criminal, con man and likely a murderer to boot. Why believe anything he said? Same goes for government allegations re Victorio Peak after Noss's demise.

Your question: if the gold was smelted inside Victorio Peak, where was the mine it came from, since most (all) early smelters are adjacent to the ore source. There doesn't seem to be an acceptable answer.

 

[n2mini]

Maybe that is why there is/was so many rooms, tunnels etc in there. Might have been mining it from right there and that is what created it all. Assuming they were there to start with. Why else did someone dig them out to begin with.. If the gold was really there it had to either be mined there or came in from some where, and then they had to dig that all out to hid it and apparently never came back for it..

 

[autofull]

Full disclosure, I'm a novice when it comes to this treasure site and I know there are a lot of folks on here that have been researching a lot harder and a lot longer than I could ever hope to. I take most of what I read at face value, in the absence of anything concrete to the contrary. I'm not a zealot though, and I appreciate the value of having different perspectives on any topic. That said, something has been really sorta bouncing around in the back of my head...

The sheer volume of treasure alleged to be in Victorio Peak would suggest that it is unlikely it was brought in through the shaft that Noss found. Noss himself claimed in some version that there was a way out from the side that was covered over with boards and that light came in. Additionally, Fiege is alleged to have found a side way in and seen the bars firsthand as well. It seems to me as well that one of the Treasure hunting teams that came in found a side entrance and recovered a bar in the process. All signs point to a side entrance, and common sense would suggest that so many tons of gold bars (among other things) would have likely been deposited by use of a side entrance.

My question is this, why would there have ever been a shaft in the first place? It's much easier to bring the treasure in from the bottom than taking it to the top and bringing it down a piece at a time through a shaft. What function would the shaft have ever served given it's impracticality as a means of introducing the treasure to the caverns?

natural volcano vent.

 

[KathrynB]

Full disclosure, I'm a novice when it comes to this treasure site and I know there are a lot of folks on here that have been researching a lot harder and a lot longer than I could ever hope to. I take most of what I read at face value, in the absence of anything concrete to the contrary. I'm not a zealot though, and I appreciate the value of having different perspectives on any topic. That said, something has been really sorta bouncing around in the back of my head...

The sheer volume of treasure alleged to be in Victorio Peak would suggest that it is unlikely it was brought in through the shaft that Noss found. Noss himself claimed in some version that there was a way out from the side that was covered over with boards and that light came in. Additionally, Fiege is alleged to have found a side way in and seen the bars firsthand as well. It seems to me as well that one of the Treasure hunting teams that came in found a side entrance and recovered a bar in the process. All signs point to a side entrance, and common sense would suggest that so many tons of gold bars (among other things) would have likely been deposited by use of a side entrance.

My question is this, why would there have ever been a shaft in the first place? It's much easier to bring the treasure in from the bottom than taking it to the top and bringing it down a piece at a time through a shaft. What function would the shaft have ever served given it's impracticality as a means of introducing the treasure to the caverns?

Hello,
I work for Yavapai County in Prescott, AZ.
We were referred a case for a deceased man found in Sedona, AZ identified as Roger Snow, born 1955, reportedly recently living in Las Cruces, NM.
I have been unable to locate next of kin but my research led me to this forum since his name is used on this site.
If anyone is a friend of Mr. Snow, please contact me if you have any information which could help me to locate family to notify of his death. Thank you.

 

[Sandhills Hunter]

Hello,
I work for Yavapai County in Prescott, AZ.
We were referred a case for a deceased man found in Sedona, AZ identified as Roger Snow, born 1955, reportedly recently living in Las Cruces, NM.
I have been unable to locate next of kin but my research led me to this forum since his name is used on this site.
If anyone is a friend of Mr. Snow, please contact me if you have any information which could help me to locate family to notify of his death. Thank you.

I enjoyed reading Roger's post. Hate to hear it.

 

[Sandhills Hunter]

I enjoyed reading Roger's post. Hate to hear it.

I also have a friend that grew up in Hatch, NM in the 1960's who is familiar with the Victorio Peak story. He and I talk about going back and looking for the treasure.

 

[gollum]

Noss was a lifelong liar, sociopath, convicted criminal, con man and likely a murderer to boot. Why believe anything he said? Same goes for government allegations re Victorio Peak after Noss's demise.

Your question: if the gold was smelted inside Victorio Peak, where was the mine it came from, since most (all) early smelters are adjacent to the ore source. There doesn't seem to be an acceptable answer.

OH JEEBUS! Here we go again....... HAHAHA

See,

Steve would have you believe that Noss had ZERO redeeming qualities. RACIST BIGOT! LOL He would also have people believe Doc Noss didn't have any REAL GOLD! I offered "somebody" the opportunity to speak to the person that is currently (as of 7 years ago), in possession of the Receipt for two approximately 45 pounds each GOLD BARS handed over by Doc to the US Mint. Noss was given a receipt (and IIRC even assayed), but if he wasn't prepared to give the location of the find, and his rightful ownership, he couldn't even get those two back. "Somebody" didn't want to make a call to the attorney with the receipt.

Without dragging out files, we have a NM State Police Statement by the Mayor of (IIRC) Portrero, NM. Said he knew Milton Noss ever since he came out that way. Didn't have any bad things to say about Doc. I don't want to misquote the guy, so I won't try to remember the exact quote.

Also, I have a pic (its in Gold House #1) of a Sheriff B.D. Lamprose holding one of Doc's 40-50 pound gold bars that he was given "for some reason" by Doc.

We also have a statement from (getting old is hell) a Latino Guy whose last name started with a "G" that worked for Noss on VP. He tried stealing a couple of the gold bars that were brought out, but got caught and chased off.

BUUUT MOST IMPORTANTLY: We have the statements AND pictures of Mr. Benny Samaniego. He worked for Doc at VP. He was one of only a couple of people Doc let below the topmost level. He hauled bars out and saw much of what was below. Doc gave him (IIRC= I'm seeing a lot of those lately LOL) Two or three of the bars and a full suit of Armor. Benny wore that armor and while wearing it, rode a horse in many parades:

We know about the gold bars, BECAUSE BENNY TOLD THE WHOLE STORY to several people. With the bars he got, he bought five adjoining empty lots and had houses built there for his family. Sound like Doc was JUST a con-man? Sorry Steve. Now, if you want to say that Doc had a big problem with drinking? Oh hell yeah! Milton Earnest "Doc" Noss was a half-Indian in rural New Mexico during the freaking Great Depression (I really don't know what was so great about it). Why doesn't anybody swing on over to any of the more remote reservation locations, and ask a Tribal Policeman how rampant alcoholism and drug abuse are on EVERY RES? HAHAHA Think about that right now! Now, think about that 90 years ago. Think New Mexicans treated Injuns better then than they do now? Hell, in the 1920s-1930s there were still A LOT of people living that had been Indian Fighters. Seen their shares of murder and torture (from both sides), and the main feeling was hatred of Indians (don't believe the John Wayne Movies).

Doc wasn't REALLY that complicated. An uneducated (but smart), half-Indian. He always had a hustle going. He never went to Medical School, but opened up a Podiatry Office in Hatch (or Portrero I don't remember). He wasn't really a Doctor, but everybody raved about how good he was at treating people's feet. Said he mainly serviced Prospectors and weary travelers. Based on looking at Willie Doughitt's Map in about 1932-33, Doc found a massive treasure beneath Victorio Peak. By the time Noss found the treasure, the 1933 Gold Confiscation Act had been in place for four years. At first, he tried to sell off individual bars secretly. Word started to get out about "Doc's Gold". Gubmint Types and Law Enforcement tried to set him up several times, as private ownership of more than five ounces was illegal (except for certain occupations). Doc used painted lead bars and some copper bars he had (or had made). If he had a bad feeling about a meeting, he would bring a fake bar. That is directly from hi ex-wife Ova Noss, and I believe Letha. Doc was starting to be known and he eventually tried doing things legally. In 1939 he went to an Office (don't remember which city) and told the Desk Person that he had found some gold and placed two approximately 45 pound ingots on the counter. It wasn't just Doc either. I forget how many, but there were other people there. The attendant gave him a receipt. I know where that receipt is/was. All this is in The Gold House Trilogy Book 1. IIRC the mint even had the bars acid tested while Doc was there (but maybe it was later, not certain).

Take Care - Mike

 

[gollum]

I enjoyed reading Roger's post. Hate to hear it.

Hello,
I work for Yavapai County in Prescott, AZ.
We were referred a case for a deceased man found in Sedona, AZ identified as Roger Snow, born 1955, reportedly recently living in Las Cruces, NM.
I have been unable to locate next of kin but my research led me to this forum since his name is used on this site.
If anyone is a friend of Mr. Snow, please contact me if you have any information which could help me to locate family to notify of his death. Thank you.

Hey Kathryn,

I know this is old (but so am I). I don't know if you ever got the information you needed, but Roger's brother is in prison for murdering their father (last known, but would have been in NM). His name would be IIRC Harvey Snow III. Only relative I know anything about.

Best - Mike

 

[sdcfia]

OH JEEBUS! Here we go again....... HAHAHA

See,

Steve would have you believe that Noss had ZERO redeeming qualities. . . .
. . .
Take Care - Mike

My working model summarized in the first paragraph from Post #4 stands. Readers can wade through Gold House Volume 1 and decide for themselves about Noss and his VP "discovery" (if they care).

The smoking gun may well be the Noss family's own assay of the "gold bars" - I should say copper bars (70% Cu, 140 oz/ton Au, 70 oz/ton Ag). For those unfamiliar with the 18th/19th century output of Spain's Santa Rita del Cobre Mine (45 miles west of the Caballos), the Noss assay matches the very rich early ore grade reports from Santa Rita - frequently native copper with lots of gold. The copper was stamped into coins in Chihuahua and the gold paid for the mining operation and transportation costs. Coincidence?

What happened. Late 1700s-early 1800s: crude smelted copper/gold ingots surreptitiously moved from Santa Rita to the Caballos and cached. The trails used still exist, but the actors, number of ingots and details of the conspiracy are undocumented. 1930s: Noss obtains intel that led him to the cached Santa Rita copper ingots. To deflect attention away from the Caballos, Noss fabricates the Victorio Peak scam and fleeces investors for ten years until one of them kills him. Post 1948: your US Government organized crime ring uses the Noss VP lies as a convenient money laundering cover for the gold they stole from Europe during WWII.

Since then, lots of theatre.

 

[gollum]

My working model summarized in the first paragraph from Post #4 stands. Readers can wade through Gold House Volume 1 and decide for themselves about Noss and his VP "discovery" (if they care).

The smoking gun may well be the Noss family's own assay of the "gold bars" - I should say copper bars (70% Cu, 140 oz/ton Au, 70 oz/ton Ag). For those unfamiliar with the 18th/19th century output of Spain's Santa Rita del Cobre Mine (45 miles west of the Caballos), the Noss assay matches the very rich early ore grade reports from Santa Rita - frequently native copper with lots of gold. The copper was stamped into coins in Chihuahua and the gold paid for the mining operation and transportation costs. Coincidence?

What happened. Late 1700s-early 1800s: crude smelted copper/gold ingots surreptitiously moved from Santa Rita to the Caballos and cached. The trails used still exist, but the actors, number of ingots and details of the conspiracy are undocumented. 1930s: Noss obtains intel that led him to the cached Santa Rita copper ingots. To deflect attention away from the Caballos, Noss fabricates the Victorio Peak scam and fleeces investors for ten years until one of them kills him. Post 1948: your US Government organized crime ring uses the Noss VP lies as a convenient money laundering cover for the gold they stole from Europe during WWII.

Since then, lots of theatre.

First: You have no idea what was assayed. Neither do I. I don't claim to (unlike yourself), BECAUSE the guys that bought Hawley&Hawley in (IIRC) 1971 couldn't tell me either exactly WHAT was being assayed. You can GUESS all you want, you can hope and pray all you like, but you will NEVER know, because (unless something comes up)there is no paperwork and nobody alive who can say for certain. I will take the word of the people who have been doing that for a living. HAHAHA If only H&H would have been just a BIT more detail oriented, we wouldn't be having this conversation today (Ingot, Slag, or Concentrates). Its also possible, that since the only record we have is a copy, the original MAY have said the actual "Description" of the item being assayed. I also wish they would have tested for Mercury. Although it was used as early as 3000 years ago, it wasn't "commercially" used until the Spanish figured out "The Patio Process" for amalgamating silver in 1554 Mexico. Mercury is "cooked off" in the smelting process, buuuuut then again, I don't think Mass Spectroscopy was available in the 1930s. LOL

You KEEP blathering about "COPPER BARS" like there is nobody that got REAL GOLD BARS from Doc. There are a BUNCH. You just choose to ignore them, because they go against everything you THEORIZE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF ACTUAL GOLD BARS RECEIVED BY PEOPLE FROM VP AND DOC, THEY FAR OUTNUMBER THE "SUPPOSED" COPPER BARS BY A FOOTBALL FIELD. STEVE'S COPPER BARS ARE THE ANOMALY, AND THE GOLD BARS ARE THE NORM. SIMPLE MATH STEVE MY FRIEND. FILL IN THESE BLANKS:

1. Every Copper Bar Blamed on Noss ____________________

2. Every Gold Bar given by Noss ___________________

I know the numbers. Are you honest enough to put the true numbers? Not just the Samaniego (2-3?), BDLamprose(1), US Mint (2), Tony Jolley (either 110 or minimum 10), and a bunch more. Somehow, I think this will be ignored. HAHAHA

Yeah, Tony Jolley ,BY HIMSELF, blows your theory out of the water:



I tried digging through all of these FOIA Docs I have, but somewhere is a receipt for a shipment of gold items and tons of "gold concentrates" (ore) all in drums shipped from NM to a refining/smelting company. IIRC, the shipper was a CIA Front Company, and it's timing is perfect for VP Removal. It is entirely possible they could have found ore. Could have also been slag that was assayed. Remember, Letha is pictured with a huge chunk of slag. If there was a "smelting cave" (don't laugh one was found on Bluff Springs Mountain in the Superstitions in the 1930s) that would explain it. I will also take another look at Lloyd Tucker's Affidavit. I think he talked about seeing ore down in VP (he was also one of the few people Doc let go below the upper level).

Mike

 

[gollum]

HAHAHAHAHA What is wrong with me (a rhetorical question because I know what Steve will say!)?

I keep all different stories and places all kind of segregated in my head (I know, I'm from the South LOL). There are certain people I rarely talk to about VP Stuff because they have been Dutch Hunters for a million years. I just realized the best people I could imagine to give an opinion on the "H&H Assay" would be either Bob Schoose (owner of Goldfield Ghost Town and an experienced mine owner and hardrock miner), or Ron Feldman (owner of OK Corral Stables and also owner of The Mammoth Mine).

I'll ask them both what they think.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

I've seen no verifiable evidence to validate the Noss family allegations, although I do believe Doc recovered his copper bars from the Caballos. If you choose to believe other peoples' unverified claims, fine, but you haven't seen any Noss gold bars. All those folks who made all those sworn statements are likely as dead as Doc and their claims are now just more old dead-end stories. This topic is a dead duck and has been for many years. Willie Douthit's story is much more interesting.

I like facts and this one is obviously inconvenient for you but it's the only documentation of the "Noss gold" that seems to have surfaced. Obviously, it's an assay of the Lamprose "gold bar" from Santa Rita del Cobre.

 

[gollum]

I've seen no verifiable evidence to validate the Noss family allegations, although I do believe Doc recovered his copper bars from the Caballos. If you choose to believe other peoples' unverified claims, fine, but you haven't seen any Noss gold bars. All those folks who made all those sworn statements are likely as dead as Doc and their claims are now just more old dead-end stories. This topic is a dead duck and has been for many years. Willie Douthit's story is much more interesting.

I like facts and this one is obviously inconvenient for you but it's the only documentation of the "Noss gold" that seems to have surfaced. Obviously, it's an assay of the Lamprose "gold bar" from Santa Rita del Cobre. View attachment 2158768

NOTHING is inconvenient for me, as I have ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY ZERO DOGS in this race. I also don't have ANY HORSES IN THIS HUNT! HAHAHA Here are a couple of things YOU are absolutely ignoring because they show you wrong:

1. You know, I WAS going to go through each column, and show you how you are mistaken, but I'll cut to the chase: You are figuring that 71.18% to be of the bar. LOOK AT THE FREAKING MATH EQUATION: 71.18% 2,000= 1423# Ya REALLY think the bar weighed 2,000 POUNDS? Ya REALLY think the copper content of a BAR was 1,423 pounds? LOL If they would have been measuring copper % of a bar, the Copper Column would have read something like 71.18% 45#= 32.03#) The Hashtag Symbol meant POUNDS in 1939 (and NOT TRENDING ON TWITTER HAHAHA), and the next line is 1423 (pounds) x .242 (dollars per pound)= $344.36 (PER TON)! This was simply a formulae to show how much copper was in EACH TON of the sample. This was ore or slag plain and simple.

2. WHY would they measure the Gold and Silver content of a FREAKING INGOT in "OZS PER TON"? THEY WOULD NOT! They would have measured the content of an INGOT in "ounces per ingot" or just "OUNCES". PERIOD

3. The BLUE RECTANGLE shows "SAMPLE Received and Assayed 2/4/1939" Sample, not bar or ingot. Although, the "SAMPLE" could have been an "Assayer's Byte" of a bar, but not based on the written math equations! Before you latch onto that one (and ignore everything else) H&H would have been the ones to TAKE THE BYTE. BD Lamprose would not have brought in his own assayer's byte. No sense at all.

4. The Red Rectangle shows the Original Column Names. If they would have been assaying a bar, they would have simply used the ORIGINAL TITLES and not had to add the extra "OZS PER TON", because the original titles already showed EXACTLY what you hope & pray they are measuring (which they are not by their own writing)

5. These are samples of "Dr M.E. NOSS by BD LAMPROSE" Does that name sound familiar? See, he got his 45-50 pound SOLID GOLD bar for helping Doc get assays and legal things taken care of (as he was a Sheriff).

But I see you did EXACTLY what I said you'd do .........ignore my challenge to you. COMPARE THE NUMBER OF COPPER BARS KNOWN TO THE NUMBER OF REAL GOLD BARS KNOWN. Your theory gets flushed down the toilet. Explain how Benny Samaniego could afford to buy five adjacent lots and build multiple homes for his family with copper bars that were only 18% or so gold (PER TON)? HAHAHAHAHA EXPLAIN HOW TONY JOLLEY RECOVERED TEN BARS OF COPPER AND BOUGHT A RANCH ON WHICH HIS SON LIVES TO THIS DAY? HAHAHA

PS
Please don't try saying that BD Lamprose was having his bar assayed, because NOT ONE BIT OF THE MATH ADDS UP FOR AN INGOT ASSAY! Also, BD Lampros was a Sheriff. Of all people to try and give a Copper FAKE GOLD BAR to, would you REALLY BS the Sheriff of the area you're living/working in? That would be a Harvey Snow III kind of logic (You know what I mean, sitting in the chair talking).

Take Care - Mike

 

[sdcfia]

NOTHING is inconvenient for me, as I have ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY ZERO DOGS in this race. I also don't have ANY HORSES IN THIS HUNT! HAHAHA Here are a couple of things YOU are absolutely ignoring because they show you wrong:

View attachment 2158786

1. You know, I WAS going to go through each column, and show you how you are mistaken, but I'll cut to the chase: You are figuring that 71.18% to be of the bar. LOOK AT THE FREAKING MATH EQUATION: 71.18% 2,000= 1423# Ya REALLY think the bar weighed 2,000 POUNDS? Ya REALLY think the copper content of a BAR was 1,423 pounds? LOL If they would have been measuring copper % of a bar, the Copper Column would have read something like 71.18% 45#= 32.03#) The Hashtag Symbol meant POUNDS in 1939 (and NOT TRENDING ON TWITTER HAHAHA), and the next line is 1423 (pounds) x .242 (dollars per pound)= $344.36 (PER TON)! This was simply a formulae to show how much copper was in EACH TON of the sample. This was ore or slag plain and simple.

2. WHY the "F" would they measure the Gold and Silver content of a FREAKING INGOT in "OZS PER TON"? THEY WOULD NOT! They would have measured the content of an INGOT in "ounces per ingot" or just "OUNCES". PERIOD

3. The BLUE RECTANGLE shows "SAMPLE Received and Assayed 2/4/1939" Sample, not bar or ingot. Although, the "SAMPLE" could have been an "Assayer's Byte" of a bar, but not based on the written math equations!

4. The Red Rectangle shows the Original Column Names. If they would have been assaying a bar, they would have simply used the ORIGINAL TITLES and not had to add the extra "OZS PER TON", because the original titles already showed EXACTLY what you hope & pray they are measuring (which they are not by their own writing)

5. These are samples of "Dr M.E. NOSS by BD LAMPROSE" Does that name sound familiar? See, he got his 45-50 pound SOLID GOLD bar for helping Doc get assays and legal things taken care of (as he was a Sheriff).

But I see you did EXACTLY what I said you'd do .........ignore my challenge to you. COMPARE THE NUMBER OF COPPER BARS KNOWN TO THE NUMBER OF REAL GOLD BARS KNOWN. Your theory gets flushed down the toilet. Explain how Benny Samaniego could afford to buy five adjacent lots and build multiple homes for his family with copper bars that were only 18% or so gold (PER TON)? HAHAHAHAHA EXPLAIN HOW TONY JOLLEY RECOVERED TEN BARS OF GOLD AND BOUGHT A RANCH ON WHICH HIS SON LIVES TO THIS DAY? PUHLEEEEEZE say "He's lying!" PLEASE! HAHAHA

Take Care - Mike

1. You claimed Lampros was buying a "Noss gold bar", and you're almost certainly correct, as Noss was not a miner - he was a gold bar scammer. So it was quite likely an ingot was assayed as the "sample". Assayers don't report sample weights or the weights of the recovered metals on assay reports to their clients, although the assayer's notes for assay #141034 would have noted those values. Metal fire assays are generally calculated and reported as "oz/ton" for precious metals and "per cent" for base metals (copper in this case). Of course this is what H&H reported.
2. See 1.
3. See 1.
4. Exactly. The "Oz Per Ton" notation was added to affirm the basis for the assay's reported results. This is quickly confirmed by the hand-written per ton value calculations for the sample. Sample size doesn't matter - per ton values are the standard.
5. Obviously Mr. Lampros didn't trust Noss's word and wanted an assay. Who wouldn't?

Bottom line. The Noss "pig iron darkened" gold ingots were tarnished because they were mostly native copper with considerable dross. Naturally, they darkened with age. The H&H assay confirms this and adds strong circumstantial evidence of the ingots' plausible origin - Santa Rita del Cobre, and later, Noss from the Caballos. No doubt the Lampros ingot was "valuable" (confirmed by H&H's math, $5,000/ton gold values), but they were not "gold bars":

(146 tr oz au/ton) / (14.6 tr oz/lb) / (2000 lb/ton) = 0.5% gold ingot by weight.
A 50-lb Noss ingot would carry (50/2000)($5,000) = $128 gold values (3.5 oz)

See what I mean? I trust H&H's assay and math, as they were professional assayers. Your red and yellow boxes and the handwritten value calculations confirm: 70% copper, 0.5% gold, 0.3% silver ingots. Documented. As to the other "gold bar" recipients you mentioned - with no reported documentation, we can rightfully infer, if their stories are true to begin with, they likely also received Santa Rita ingots.

 

[: Michael-Robert.]

[2min] John Clarence tells about the problems associated with writing The Gold House books and the complexities that had to be resolved. He explains the separate time periods in which the accounts of the Victorio Peak treasure story are presented in the trilogy.