Victorian buckle and ???

HutSiteDigger

HutSiteDigger

Silver Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,849
1,283
Stafford,Virginia
Detector(s) used
Fisher 1266x and a shovel
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Is that a Victorian buckle and what is the 2nd artifact? The 2nd artifact was about 10-12 inches in the ground, and was probably one of the deepest artifacts i've detected out in the Northern Neck of Va - it gave off the slightest whisper.. The soil out in the northern neck is really rich soil which is good for artifacts..
 

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It almost looks like a Civil War rosette but there was no CW activity out there...
 

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not any type of rossette......reread this and didnt come out the way I meant.....should say "not like,any rossette,I have seen"

could possibly be a civilian bit boss with the other ear broke off
 

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I dont know colonial artifacts,but personally have never seen a rossette like that.....possibly it is?
 

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it is the bolt cover off of the bed post of an old poster bed
 

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Just got a message back from Bill D (VA) he said : Yep, that's a 1700s rosette. They're fairly common finds on colonial sites, and I've dug quite a few over the years.
 

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yep,now I am confused!!
 

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Since there seems to be a little confusion on the rosette I thought I'd provide some additional info. I told HutSiteDigger through a PM (since my PC had been retired for the evening) that I was pretty certain the item was an 18th century bridal rosette, or bit boss as they're sometimes called. These are among the most common finds at late colonial sites, and I've probably dug at least 25 of them. I'm attaching a pic below from one of Ivor Hume's books that shows what appears to be the same rosette in the upper right of the figure, and the date is also listed as the 1700s. It's possible like Creskol said that it could be a decoration from an old bedpost, but I do not believe that's what it is. I'm not saying that I'm absolutely 100% correct on this, based on my experience and from HSD's pic I feel fairly confident this is likely a c1750-1800 rosette. Nice find by the way.

bridal rosette.jpg
 

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They seem mighty flimsy for that application to me, but who knows. May be another case of mistaken identity, or maybe the applications were interchangeable .. or maybe they are two different things altogether. I just don't know.

The BC 5 in the bedpost covers measures 2 1/2 inches. What does yous measure, Hut?
 

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Bill D. (VA) said:
Since there seems to be a little confusion on the rosette I thought I'd provide some additional info. I told HutSiteDigger through a PM (since my PC had been retired for the evening) that I was pretty certain the item was an 18th century bridal rosette, or bit boss as they're sometimes called. These are among the most common finds at late colonial sites, and I've probably dug at least 25 of them. I'm attaching a pic below from one of Ivor Hume's books that shows what appears to be the same rosette in the upper right of the figure, and the date is also listed as the 1700s. It's possible like Creskol said that it could be a decoration from an old bedpost, but I do not believe that's what it is. I'm not saying that I'm absolutely 100% correct on this, based on my experience and from HSD's pic I feel fairly confident this is likely a c1750-1800 rosette. Nice find by the way.

View attachment 875095
Click to expand...

I been sitting here for the past hour zooming through Bed bolt covers and comparing them,etc - very similar, i see a few things that are not a match compared to the one i dug.. The picture you posted in Hume's book does look pin-point close to the rosette and with your expert experience in colonial artifacts also - i do think we can say it is a rosette. I tell you though I learned more about bed bolt covers this past 2 hours than i ever would have thought of !

Thanks for the wonderful help guys and i hope i can be the same assistants to you all soon! H.H>
 

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creskol said:
They seem mighty flimsy for that application to me, but who knows. May be another case of mistaken identity, or maybe the applications were interchangeable .. or maybe they are two different things altogether. I just don't know.

The BC 5 in the bedpost covers measures 2 1/2 inches. What does yous measure, Hut?
Click to expand...

It measures just shy of 2 1/8 inches... adding the part that was broken off to..
 

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Clarifying the names, and why these objects are different things:
A horsegear bit boss is attached to metal (the bit's metal body). A horsegear rosette is attached to leather (usually, the horse's bridle). Also, you'll notice that the "form of attachment" is diferent between those two types of objects... a rivet-hole on the bit boss's body, and wires or a bar on the back of the rosette.

For anybody here who doesn't already know what a bit boss is:
The photo below shows a US military bit boss on the bit's iron body. I'll also include two photos showing a rosette, "in place" on a horse's leather bridle.

I believe HutSiteDigger's find is indeed a bit boss, and is from the Colonial era -- although of course some of the specific version he found continued to be used into the 1800s. In addition to the evidence provided by Bill D (and afterward by Creskol)... I myself dug the very same version of bit boss within two feet of the street-curb at a Colonial-era house's yard in downtown Fredericksburg. I realize the following is a "judgement call"... but I think that's more likely where a piece from a horse's bit would be found than a bedpost bolt-cover would be found.
 

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Keep in mind that designers for furniture and all kinds of other design, are inspired by what they see being used in other applications. So, it could well be that the original design for the bedpost brass was inspired by a bit boss. Or vice versa. It certainly would not have been uncommon for a designer of the day to see horses, including his own, everywhere he went.
 

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Cres....it appears this item doesnt have an inset back,which I would think a bolt cover would have?I dunno?

CBG,that is/was exactly my thinking as well....never having seen a Colonial rossette atached to a period Bridal,I digressed.
Great conversation folks....THANKS!!!!
 

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