Vacant lots Fair Game??

[Ragnar]

I have noticed a lot of vacant lots within the city limits of my town. There are no signs or barriers on the lots. Any opinions or experiences with detecting in places like these

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

I have found out that a permission lived in the USA, and it would take some doing to contact them-so I didn't.
Another person lives in Europe, same thing goes I didn't seek out the permission-nor did I go on the properties.

Just because a person lives someplace else-and neglects the property doesn't give me one iota of permission to trespass for the sake of detecting it.

Some take advantage of this and use the lands as if was public property. They use lands for hunting, biking, snowmobiling, hiking and when time comes to undo the entitlement that others have on properties it becomes a mess.

If a person pays the taxes on a property then they are the owners more than likely, and it is them that allow or disallow. Anything else is trespassing simple as that. Doesn't matter if its postage stamp of a city lot that's run down, or a 5000 acre estate containing many parcels of land and homes.

Everything you're saying is true. No matter *how* abandoned. No matter *how* far from BFE. No matter how much it's innocuous (trails crossing) etc...... And as such: So too is everything you're saying equally apply to the short-cut trail shown in the pix above. I totally agree that if the gentleman in that pix took the trail, everything you're saying would apply to him.

 

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[pepperj]

Maybe he's just waiting and not going to take the trail. Who knows he might be ready to do a flash...

 

[Swaveab]

So if they don't pay taxes? I think you're going too literal and leaving 0 interpretation even in my statement as I did say I believe in getting permissions. There are circumstances as the person may be dead and have no heirs and I would have no qualms of detecting there and you say no. We're splitting hairs here trying to interpret the law. You and I aren't qualified to do that, but just like the guy on the path is trespassing like the mder is it's true the mder is taking. Now let's take this one step farther as the mder is not stealing something the owner may have held dear let alone knew was there and he certainly wasn't burglarizing the home. See there are degrees of interpretation and odds are the mder may just be told leave and don't come back rather than go to jail as the punishment should fit the crime here. In England it is handled quite differently as well as Canada so don't lump it all together. Just lighten up and enjoy yourself or you'll wind up with an ulcer and possible jailtime for trying to act as an attorney without a license if one wishes to be THAT literal.

 

[pepperj]

There are circumstances as the person may be dead and have no heirs and I would have no qualms of detecting there and you say no. In England it is handled quite differently as well as Canada so don't lump it all together. Just lighten up and enjoy yourself or you'll wind up with an ulcer and possible jailtime for trying to act as an attorney without a license if one wishes to be THAT literal.

By your statement that you have no qualms detecting on the land if the person died and has no heirs, so who owns it then? Is it city property, state owned and how did you arrive at that conclusion in that there is no heirs? If the said piece of land doesn't just float around in "no ownership space" its part of the tax base so somebody being private, City, or State is the payer of the tax and that is the ownership. Now I might be totally wrong here in this thinking but I'm pretty sure this is how the tax system works in the western world. If it's the public purse paying well its open season for detecting the place, if it's private money well it's a permission the way I see it.

It's an open discussion on the ethics of gaining permission and everyone has their right to write an opinion on the subject. So what's this "Jailtime" all about? No ulcer here I'm just stating the fact that if you detect on a piece of private land that you not gained permission then you have right there gone against what most do and stand up for and that is doing the this hobby ethically. I go on what is right and wrong-no grey- I dig with permission and will always do so. Go do what you feel right to do but like I said to the last guy digging huge plugs in a sports field throwing large pieces of iron by the fence line where the mower could hit them. "Just keep that attitude up and sooner or later it will come back to bite us all in the ass when they ban detecting here because your actions".

So you may have just entered this hobby a short time ago, and don't care if you skirt the ethics side of the hobby as you'll go on your way again picking up something else and discarding that as well, so be it. But when it comes to one crapping on my pleasure because of their unethical doings well I get defensive and will back the hobby to the letter. Been around this game too long to not too so you take a breather now and go read this over. It's quite simple really the third paragraph and then down on the first two lines of the ethics near the bottom. KISS method works here-

TreasureNet - Guide

 

[G.A.P.metal]

British Dictionary definitions for vacantExpand
vacant


/ˈveɪkənt/

adjective1.without any contents; empty

2.(postpositive) foll by of. devoid (of something specified)

3.having no incumbent; unoccupied: a vacant post

4.having no tenant or occupant: a vacant house

5.characterized by or resulting from lack of thought or intelligent awareness: a vacant stare

6.(of time, etc) not allocated to any activity: a vacant hour in one's day

7.spent in idleness or inactivity: a vacant life

8.(law) (of an estate, etc) having no heir or claimant



Derived Forms
vacantly, adverb
vacantness, noun


Word Origin
C13: from Latin vacāre to be empty







Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... Now let's take this one step farther as the mder is not stealing something the owner may have held dear let alone knew was there.. ...

Swaveab: There is something intuitive in what you are saying. EVEN though it doesn't jive with literal interpretations of law. What you are saying is something that, deep down, we all know to be true: That there IS a difference between taking someone's ring off their night-stand, versus taking a ring from a park or beach and making no attempt to return.

When we md'rs find something on the beach or cow pasture, we assume it's "unknown" . (bear in mind, lost & found laws require you to turn in rings found on public land, yet no one ever does). Like .... almost as if it DIDN'T exist till we brought it to the surface. We just ASSUME the object has been written off as gone-for-good. Contrast to the ring on the ring on someone's night stand, we all see a difference that's a million miles wide. Yet in the eyes of the law .... no distinction.

 

[Swaveab]

By your statement that you have no qualms detecting on the land if the person died and has no heirs, so who owns it then? Is it city property, state owned and how did you arrive at that conclusion in that there is no heirs? If the said piece of land doesn't just float around in "no ownership space" its part of the tax base so somebody being private, City, or State is the payer of the tax and that is the ownership. Now I might be totally wrong here in this thinking but I'm pretty sure this is how the tax system works in the western world. If it's the public purse paying well its open season for detecting the place, if it's private money well it's a permission the way I see it.

It's an open discussion on the ethics of gaining permission and everyone has their right to write an opinion on the subject. So what's this "Jailtime" all about? No ulcer here I'm just stating the fact that if you detect on a piece of private land that you not gained permission then you have right there gone against what most do and stand up for and that is doing the this hobby ethically. I go on what is right and wrong-no grey- I dig with permission and will always do so. Go do what you feel right to do but like I said to the last guy digging huge plugs in a sports field throwing large pieces of iron by the fence line where the mower could hit them. "Just keep that attitude up and sooner or later it will come back to bite us all in the ass when they ban detecting here because your actions".

So you may have just entered this hobby a short time ago, and don't care if you skirt the ethics side of the hobby as you'll go on your way again picking up something else and discarding that as well, so be it. But when it comes to one crapping on my pleasure because of their unethical doings well I get defensive and will back the hobby to the letter. Been around this game too long to not too so you take a breather now and go read this over. It's quite simple really the third paragraph and then down on the first two lines of the ethics near the bottom. KISS method works here-

TreasureNet - Guide

Where I am if one knows the person has died and it lays dormant for many years with no taxes being paid with the deceased still listed as the owner (and I can determine that where I live) then if no government entity takes the property for backed taxes it is free and clear as in no ownership at the time. I am only having a discussion as well and you seem to be the rigid one having a bird over the scenarios I'm saying. In the case I just listed there isn't anyone to get permission from and thereby nobody to levy a complaint either. As to the jailtime I was poking fun at your literalness of getting permissions as technically you are trying to interpret the law and you aren't qualified to as you aren't an attorney, are you? I'm guessing not as I seem to know more about legalities than you and I'm not an attorney either. This is why I suggested to just go have fun mding and leave the legalities to somebody else more qualified in questionable cases, but I still am not lawless like you try to imply as I do ask whenever I can. My big point is we aren't burglars trying to break into a place, just as Tom caught my drift on that, even though you make it seems that way. Intent is everything as is circumstances. I do hope if neighborhood kids lose their ball on your property that you aren't the type to call the police because they trespassed on your property even to come ask you for that permission. Lighten up.

 

[pepperj]

Where I am if one knows the person has died and it lays dormant for many years with no taxes being paid with the deceased still listed as the owner (and I can determine that where I live) then if no government entity takes the property for backed taxes it is free and clear as in no ownership at the time. I am only having a discussion as well and you seem to be the rigid one having a bird over the scenarios I'm saying. In the case I just listed there isn't anyone to get permission from and thereby nobody to levy a complaint either. As to the jailtime I was poking fun at your literalness of getting permissions as technically you are trying to interpret the law and you aren't qualified to as you aren't an attorney, are you? I'm guessing not as I seem to know more about legalities than you and I'm not an attorney either. This is why I suggested to just go have fun mding and leave the legalities to somebody else more qualified in questionable cases, but I still am not lawless like you try to imply as I do ask whenever I can. My big point is we aren't burglars trying to break into a place, just as Tom caught my drift on that, even though you make it seems that way. Intent is everything as is circumstances. I do hope if neighborhood kids lose their ball on your property that you aren't the type to call the police because they trespassed on your property even to come ask you for that permission. Lighten up.

Explanations are great then a person knows your situation in what is implied as in." Where I am if one knows the person has died and it lays dormant for many years with no taxes being paid with the deceased still listed as the owner (and I can determine that where I live) then if no government entity takes the property for backed taxes it is free and clear as in no ownership at the time."

That explains it, and as you stated, and I apologize to you for not understanding what you had explained earlier. You see it works different up here somewhat there's no long periods of time that lapse in ownership, if a owner dies with no living relative or will, the land will go back to the Crown.

When somebody knocks on the door and asks to retrieve the ball off the property then permission is granted, but not playing ball on the property. I don't much care for trespassing and have and will call, also I will escort folks off the land if I deemed fit. Like you said it's a discussion and I'm stating my point that's all, and how I see it.

I map something out and know that there's a few sites on a piece of land I will ask permission to even do a walk through to see if there's glass, brick pieces laying around. When I do ask I mention that to the permission and they appreciate the fact that somebody doesn't just walk on and snoop.

As you stated: " I do ask whenever I can". So may I ask you this: If you can't, will/would you still hunt it or do just do a pass?
I have no idea of your position on this as you have never posted up a find, but have discussed the topic of detecting at certain locals.

I'm sure that you have a good idea on this query as you have been doing this for a couple (2) of years now.

 

[Swaveab]

Yes, I do recall saying it is different for the U.K. and Canada, but most times permission is needed here as well. If I believe I'd be trespassing I won't elect to hunt it as that does follow what I also said before that I do believe in getting permission.

As to posting finds I've not that many that would impress, but even if I did have a plethora of finds, I won't post them all here for all to know what I've got. My preference.

I believe the air is clear and we have conveyed understanding and are not at odds with each other. Peace and happy hunting.

 

[pepperj]

As to posting finds I've not that many that would impress, but even if I did have a plethora of finds, I won't post them all here for all to know what I've got. My preference.

I actually had to look up what type of finds that was-Nor would I post them either-finally we agree on something. Cheers

Definition of plethora:
overabundance; excess: ... 1540s, a medical word for "excess of body fluid," from Late Latin plethora, from Greek plethore "fullness," from plethein "be full"