Using Dry Beach Program on land

[Bharpring]

Has anyone tried using the Dry Beach program and customizing it to use on land (relic/park sites)? Ran a quick test in my garden with HF elliptical coil at 74 KHz, reactivity 2, silencer -1, Audio Response 6, Full Tones, notch 0-80 and 99-99, iron volume 0 and discrimination -6.4 and got some impressive depth.

 

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[smokeythecat]

I'll try it. Thanks for the idea. Been using the Deus Fast both at the beach and on land this year.

 

[vferrari]

Has anyone tried using the Dry Beach program and customizing it to use on land (relic/park sites)? Ran a quick test in my garden with HF elliptical coil at 74 KHz, reactivity 2, silencer -1, Audio Response 6, Full Tones, notch 0-80 and 99-99, iron volume 0 and discrimination -6.4 and got some impressive depth.

Hey here are some comparisons of the stock Dry Beach, Deus Fast, and your program with some of my notes attached. Basically, you took dry beach and turned it into essentially Deus fast by removing the Silencer setting. Point is you could have used either Deus Fast or Dry Beach as a starting point to get to your program, but using Deus Fast means you would not have had to futz with the silencer setting. That is why I like to use it as the starting point for most of my custom programs. One note on silencer and I think I have posted this before - when actually on the beach sand hunting and encountering bottlecaps, I DO like to run the dry beach +4 SILENCER setting because it really breaks up the bottle caps and makes them sound nothing like quarters, this is especially true when running with the HF coil at mid frequency (26 khz) which is might default beach setup. Bottom line, there is nothing special about Dry Beach that limits it to beach vs. terrestrial use. It is just a program that turns iron volume off (no effect if running full tones) and that maximizes silencer which tends to break up bottle caps better than no silencer.

Dry Beach Stock
Disc=10
Tones=3
Sense=90
Tx Power=2
Freq=18khz
Iron Vol=0
Rx=2
Silencer=4
Audio R.=4
GB=90
Notch=Nothing

Deus Fast
Disc=6.1
Tones=3
Sense=90
Tx Power=2
Freq=18khz
Iron Vol=3
Rx=2
Silencer=-1
Audio R.=4
GB=90
Notch=Nothing

Your Program
Disc=-6.4>No Disc >does not correspond to either, how I like to generally run my machine.
Tones=Full> Therefore, Iron Volume Setting does not matter.
Sense=??>you didn't say how high your were running sensitivity.
Tx Power=2>Fixed at 2 for the HF coils
Freq=74khz>Good for mid conductors, not so good for high conductors (as noted below, since you notched out all but large gold/high conductors, perhaps not optimal)
Iron Vol=0>Setting does nothing if using full tones and esp. if you are using no discrimination.
Rx=2>2.5 is a good middle of the road setting between the extreme responsivity of 3 and the good responsivity of 2. If really trashy I would use 2.5. If going for max depth no higher than 1 or 2 if not trashy
Silencer=-1
Audio R.=6>Makes all targets sound the same regardless of depth. I like to hear a little differentiation here so keep it at the default of 4, but personal choice.
GB=90>I like to generally run GB in tracking mode.
Notch=Anything but high mid and high conductors> I would not run this at 74 kHZ then for max depth on high conductors you should use min frequency. If you want gold or nickels, by all means run higher freq. (and you can still hit on high conductors, just not as deep as you would at 13 or 14 khz with that coil) but you would probably have to lower your max notch to 65 to get some of the lower range gold items in. Not a big fan of notching anything under any circumstances other than extreme iron unmasking per Ted's program or extreme EMI conditions (e.g., an electric dog fence) where noise is splattered across all TID's so at least you can quiet the machine down and focus on a specific TID range. But that's just me.

HTH demystify the stock programs vs. custom programs. BTW Wet Beach is also very similar to Deus Fast (e.g., Reactivity = -1) but with GB set to beach mode (e.g., adj from 0 -30, tracking is not available in this mode)

 

[RustyGold]

Thank you vferrari. Just what I needed. Uh, I'd like to read your book on the Deus. When's it coming out?

 

[vferrari]

Thank you vferrari. Just what I needed. Uh, I'd like to read your book on the Deus. When's it coming out?

I think Andy Sabisch would have something to say about that especially since I've helped assist him at his bootcamp. Andy and I approach the Deus a little differently and he appreciates my alternate approach and graciously allowed me to provide the counterpoint to his approach to the deus (basically, he likes at least some disc between 6 and 10 and like 5 tones vs. full tones) to his bootcamp attendees. I am kicking around some ideas of alternatives to a physical book that would be handier to use in the field.

 

[austin_luker]

if you didn't sign a NDA or NCA agreement I would go for it!

 

[HuntinDog]

With new V4 and HF Coils coming out a new book would be good.
I'm sure that Andy has found new things about the operation/settings of the Deus.
Maybe a co-authored book with both views....

 

[Bharpring]

With the HF coil is there any difference in the actual programming of the Deus Fast and Dry Beach programs other than ground balance and silencer settings?

 

[vferrari]

With the HF coil is there any difference in the actual programming of the Deus Fast and Dry Beach programs other than ground balance and silencer settings?

No difference in GB settings between the two - only Disc and Silencer. Default of manual GB set at 90 for both.

 

[Bharpring]

Yes, but are the silencer filters different between Deus Fast and Dry Beach, like the Hot program uses V3.2 filters? Why have a Dry Beach program if it is only a slightly modified Deus Fast? So the way I understand is that I can modify any of the stock programs, except Hot and Deep to all be the exact same thing and get the exact same performance?

 

[austin_luker]

I would bet at software level there is some slight difference between the two programs

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[vferrari]

I would bet at software level there is some slight difference between the two programs

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

There isn't. XP put the silencer in there for the bottlecaps on Dry Beach, that's it (besides slightly higher discrimination). The silencer was put in the Deus in the first place as XP's attempt to address bottlecaps, per Sabisch at the request of US detectorists.

Yes, but are the silencer filters different between Deus Fast and Dry Beach, like the Hot program uses V3.2 filters? Why have a Dry Beach program if it is only a slightly modified Deus Fast? So the way I understand is that I can modify any of the stock programs, except Hot and Deep to all be the exact same thing and get the exact same performance?

Dry Beach and Deus Fast are the same as far as the filter algorithms are concerned (and are the same as GMAXX, Wet Beach, GM Power) so you can start with any of the above as your base program if you want to invoke V4 filters. Only Deep and Hot filters differ from the other programs like Fast, Dry Beach, etc. that use V4 filters.

The above responses are based on information sheet Andy Sabisch handed out at the last Boot Camp I attended.

HTH

 

[Bharpring]

when you say bottle caps, do you mean the steel ones on beer bottles or the aluminum one on soft drink bottles?

 

[Bharpring]

Also, is there anything in the software of each Program that is different other than the silencer filters? Another way to put it, is there anything that makes each individual stock program different other than the setting within each program?

So you can start with any of the stock programs, except Deep and Hot and customize them each with the same settings and the result will be the exact same performance for the coil linked to the controller.

That is crazy. I would never have imagined that this was the case. XP Deus should have this documented somewhere.

 

[vferrari]

when you say bottle caps, do you mean the steel ones on beer bottles or the aluminum one on soft drink bottles?

Yes, the steel caps aka crowncaps. Rusted, Steel caps can get broken up using the silencer filter with some minor impact on depth which is not a big issue at the beach. The HF coils really make the crowncaps/bottlecaps more noticeable, otherwise, they ring up like quarters (though not as solid as quarters, if you listen closely). You can't do much about the aluminum caps or aluminum in general since it can ring up like gold (the real bane of the detectorist) though bent/broken caps and pull tabs can give a distorted audio tone if you listen closely. The Deus is easy to learn and use and be successful with if the good targets are there. The key to the Deus is taking the time, often involving hundreds of hours of swing time, to learn the subtle audio clues that differentiate the trash from the treasure when both types of targets are giving you a "dig it" target ID.

Also, is there anything in the software of each Program that is different other than the silencer filters? Another way to put it, is there anything that makes each individual stock program different other than the setting within each program?

So you can start with any of the stock programs, except Deep and Hot and customize them each with the same settings and the result will be the exact same performance for the coil linked to the controller.

That is crazy. I would never have imagined that this was the case. XP Deus should have this documented somewhere.

There is nothing different in the software in the various preset programs other than the early software version (ver 2/ver 3.2) "filters" (and they are not just silencer filters, even though that is what Gary Blackwell said, it is more like the total way the signals are processed) associated with the DEEP and HOT programs. As I said above, all the other programs (other than Gold Field, which is a different animal entirely) use the version 4 filters and the same signal processing algorithms but behave differently only because of the differences in the preset "user" settings for the adjustable parameters: Frequency, Frequency Offset, Discrimination, Tones, Sensitivity, Tx Power, Reactivity, Silencer, Iron Volume, Audio Response, Notch, Graphic Display (Horseshoe vs. X-Y) and ID Normalization.

So if you start with any program except HOT, DEEP, or GOLD FIELD and modify it so the end settings are the same then that program will behave the exactly the same whether you started with BASIC, GM POWER, DEUS FAST, PITCH, G-MAXX, WET BEACH, or DRY BEACH to generate that custom program. This is based on documentation I have seen and discussions with Andy Sabisch and his handouts. I cannot guarantee that XP didn't slide anything else in there, but they have made it pretty clear there is Version 4 signal processing ("filters") all the presets except for Version 2/Version 3.2 signal processing ("filters") for the Deep and Hot presets, respectively.

I totally agree with you that the "secret" Deep and Hot filter versions should have been documented in writing by XP rather than simply "discussed" like it was a hidden easter egg on a Gary Blackwell video.

A lot of us complained on TNET about how that "reveal" was conducted by XP. The users should really have been made aware through official documentation that those new preset programs had fundamentally different signal processing algorithms than the others. XP had never done that before with the preset programs, at least they never revealed it before.

 

[Bharpring]

I'm going to use this thread to talk about Iron Volume and ask what it does exactly on a software level? Is it a filter or does it actually adjust the volume you hear when the coil passes over iron? And if so, is there a size limit to the iron that will affect the volume?

I have noticed that I get about 1" to 2" deeper signals with iron volumes at a min of 3 vs 2, 1, or O.

Have you found this to be true as well?

 

[vferrari]

I'm going to use this thread to talk about Iron Volume and ask what it does exactly on a software level? Is it a filter or does it actually adjust the volume you hear when the coil passes over iron? And if so, is there a size limit to the iron that will affect the volume?

I have noticed that I get about 1" to 2" deeper signals with iron volumes at a min of 3 vs 2, 1, or O.

Have you found this to be true as well?

Iron volume setting does nothing if using full tones.

If using 5 tones or less, Iron Volume let's you peek behind the curtain, so to speak, by giving you an iron grunt tone for any ferrous signal that is detected in the region below the discrimination setting. The magnitude, or "volume" of the grunt tone is determined by the setting, with higher numbers giving you more iron grunt volume in your headphones. It is useful because it let's you use the discrimination circuit while enabling you to hear what would normally be discriminated out so you can be aware of iron where you are sweeping the coil as well as enabling the filtering benefit of discrimination which helps nearby non-ferrous targets be heard better (as opposed to just turning discrimination off altogether). Another way of looking at it is it allows you to actually hear the iron signal that visually appears on the right side of the horseshoe. This is one drawback to full tones, since this feature cannot be used. The volume setting should have no effect whatsoever on detection depth even when you are in 5 tones or less and is basically disabled altogether when in full tones or when you have no discrimination dialed in (even though you can select the setting).

HTH

 

[Bharpring]

Yes, I use the Iron Vol around 3 for my 3 and 4 tone programs. It is very busy and I get the most feedback. It seems to unmask the non ferrous very well with the HF Elliptical coil at 74 Hz. I also run my Audio Resp at 6 to hear the deeper targets. I did a test with these settings on a silver dime, silver quarter, V nickel, and an Hessian Button to get the full gamut of VIDs and sounds. As I lowered the Iron Volume to 1 I was getting a little less depth on each target tested than with the Iron Vol at 3. Then I jacked it up to 5 and got a little deeper signal than with Iron Vol 3. But the sound of the signal was not as sharp on 5 as it was on 3.

I like using Iron Vol at 3 with my 3 and 4 Tone programs. But just wandered if there was a connection from Iron Vol to detection depth? I guess not.

So this begs the question for me, does Iron Vol only affect the volume of the big iron (VID 96-99) or does it also affect little iron and nails (VID 1-10)?

Thanks for this information by the way, it is exponentially helpful.

 

[vferrari]

Yes, Iron volume only affects the iron in the discrimination range. Big "wraparound" iron is unaffected and will not "grunt" even if you have notched out 97-99, which I personally highly discourage especially if you are running max frequency because you will def notch out a big high conductor. Note that you may get better depth results on the high conductors if you lower frequency. I think you may be losing some depth on the high conductive targets by running only at 74 khz, just saying.

 

[Bharpring]

Yeah, the high frequency is only with my HF Elliptical. I usually run 8Hz with my LF 9" coil for depth. When I use 4 tones with my HF Elliptical I will notch 99-99 which cuts out a lot of big iron and I still get the high conductors. My soil has tons of big iron all over. I have been using the HF Elliptical coil to see if I can unmask the awesome targets being masked by the big iron. The LF 9" coil does not separate as well as the HF Elliptical at 74Hz. And I'm getting some impressive depths on certain targets, but the Iron Volume was a bit of a mystery to me.

What would be the difference between using Iron Vol at 0 vs Notch 1-10? Wouldn't the machine work the same and be very quiet over nail beds?