US Govt Federal Lands and Indian Lands - Treasure recovery

[Hawkwood]

Grow up! I'm a seasoned treasure hunter helping you out. If you are not able to "do your due diligence" after someone gives you the resource, you are your own enemy.

ARPA - "which is not an archaeological resource, as determined under uniform regulations promulgated under section 3(1) of this Act."

Hello Michael-Robert.........
Let's say, just for the sake of arguement, I have located what I believe to be an 18th Century Jesuit depository trove on Forest Service property.
What should my next steps be?

Should I contact the Jesuit Provencial and the O'odham/Pima tribe to try and work out a "finders fee" deal because I believe they would have a legitimate and enforceable "legal claim of ownership" to the artifacts?

I am VERY confident in what I have found....I just don't want it to go into a Government "Black Hole" or get myself into any legal problems......If there is no way to be able to keep a fair share of what I can recover then why recover it or disclose its where abouts

Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

 

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[Hawkwood]

Hello Michael-Robert.........
Let's say, just for the sake of arguement, I have located what I believe to be an 18th Century Jesuit depository trove on Forest Service property.
What should my next steps be?

Should I contact the Jesuit Provencial and the O'odham/Pima tribe to try and work out a "finders fee" deal because I believe they would have a legitimate and enforceable "legal claim of ownership" to the artifacts?

I am VERY confident in what I have found....I just don't want it to go into a Government "Black Hole" or get myself into any legal problems......If there is no way to be able to keep a fair share of what I can recover then why recover it or disclose its where abouts

Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

Hello Michael-Robert.........
Let's say, just for the sake of arguement, I have located what I believe to be an 18th Century Jesuit depository trove on Forest Service property.
What should my next steps be?

Should I contact the Jesuit Provencial and the O'odham/Pima tribe to try and work out a "finders fee" deal because I believe they would have a legitimate and enforceable "legal claim of ownership" to the artifacts?

I am VERY confident in what I have found....I just don't want it to go into a Government "Black Hole" or get myself into any legal problems......If there is no way to be able to keep a fair share of what I can recover then why recover it or disclose its where abouts

Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

So??.......Let me get this right. I ask a legit question to solicit legit answers from the intelligent end of a northbound mule....and all I get is a "laugh at me" reaction from the south end of said mule.


Appreciate the help Digger.

 

[Clay Diggins]

So??.......Let me get this right. I ask a legit question to solicit legit answers from the intelligent end of a northbound mule....and all I get is a "laugh at me" reaction from the south end of said mule.


Appreciate the help Digger.

Maybe actually read and understand the laws being quoted before you request help? Your question is based on false assumptions.. Unfortunately that's probably more due to the ignorance of the OP regarding the laws leading to a badly mangled discussion merging two unrelated topics - antiquities law and treasure trove procedures. Garbage in garbage out. It's like a dog chasing it's tail. Or someone asking a mule questions. That's why I laugh.

As always do your own due diligence - no one can do it for you. If you read something interesting or promising on the internet please learn to research the facts before relying on the type of fantasy story being offered as fact in this thread.

 

[Hawkwood]

Maybe actually read and understand the laws being quoted before you request help? Your question is based on false assumptions.. Unfortunately that's probably more due to the ignorance of the OP regarding the laws leading to a badly mangled discussion merging two unrelated topics - antiquities law and treasure trove procedures. Garbage in garbage out. It's like a dog chasing it's tail. Or someone asking a mule questions. That's why I laugh.

As always do your own due diligence - no one can do it for you. If you read something interesting or promising on the internet please learn to research the facts before relying on the type of fantasy story being offered as fact in this thread.

Mr. Diggins, Thank you for your response in general terms. My "mule" analogy was made because I was annoyed for being laughed at and summarily dismissed regarding my question.

Frankly, I found the answeres to my questions on how to move forward by engaging qualified and experienced legal assistance........As a business owner I have learned that I don't know everything....and if I need help.....hire an expert.

Whether people believe or discount the existance of certain "myths and legends" that are the topics of certain forums makes no difference to me.....I am sure some who post on these forums are legit...and some are not. I do however enjoy reading what people have to say and do take the time to research what they have to say.

It is amazing what you can discover if your research can turn over the right stones......and you can confirm those discoveries with current technologies that didn't exist in the past couple of decades.

All I am concerned about is taking the necessary procedures to take in order to keep myself legal when and if I am fortunate enough to find and recover one of them.

Have fun Mr. Diggins

 

[Clay Diggins]

Mr. Diggins, Thank you for your response in general terms. My "mule" analogy was made because I was annoyed for being laughed at and summarily dismissed regarding my question.

Frankly, I found the answeres to my questions on how to move forward by engaging qualified and experienced legal assistance........As a business owner I have learned that I don't know everything....and if I need help.....hire an expert.

Whether people believe or discount the existance of certain "myths and legends" that are the topics of certain forums makes no difference to me.....I am sure some who post on these forums are legit...and some are not. I do however enjoy reading what people have to say and do take the time to research what they have to say.

It is amazing what you can discover if your research can turn over the right stones......and you can confirm those discoveries with current technologies that didn't exist in the past couple of decades.

All I am concerned about is taking the necessary procedures to take in order to keep myself legal when and if I am fortunate enough to find and recover one of them.

Have fun Mr. Diggins

Good. I'm glad you got professional help - and on a Saturday nice going!
I'm sure they were as amused as I was with your question. Since you are paying them they may not have shared their mirth.

Typically I do explain my reason for amusement with my clients when their misunderstanding is so deep but I always try to turn it into an amusing educational episode. I like educated clients. Better to explain the humor than snigger behind a false mask of professionalism. To each their own.

So now you know that treasure trove law is older than the United States and still upheld in all courts. You also know that if the treasure is found on public lands the United States government owns the treasure lock stock and barrel. The Forest Service is charged with managing particular public lands - they don't own any land nor do they own treasure discovered on those lands and have no right to negotiate a "finders fee" for United States property located on public lands.

Also you now know that neither Jesuits nor Akimel O'odham will have a prior claim on any treasure found on public lands - if it is indeed treasure.

Treasure trove law is really interesting. There have been large treasures discovered and recovered with treasure trove permits on public lands in the southwest before. In every case I know of the federal government was thankful for a citizen donating their time, money and resources to recover government property. Unfortunately there are no medals or ribbons for those efforts so I hope the treasure finders have rich memories of their adventure.

Maybe if after you recover the treasure you will share some of the knowledge you have gained in your pursuit? I understand your reluctance to go into detail before you recover the treasure but I'm sure your acquired knowledge on treasure law and procedures would be safe to share after your recovery. It would help clarify for readers here the obvious confusion between treasure law and antiquities law that's been conflated here and elsewhere.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Good. I'm glad you got professional help - and on a Saturday nice going!
I'm sure they were as amused as I was with your question. Since you are paying them they may not have shared their mirth.

Typically I do explain my reason for amusement with my clients when their misunderstanding is so deep but I always try to turn it into an amusing educational episode. I like educated clients. Better to explain the humor than snigger behind a false mask of professionalism. To each their own.

So now you know that treasure trove law is older than the United States and still upheld in all courts. You also know that if the treasure is found on public lands the United States government owns the treasure lock stock and barrel. The Forest Service is charged with managing particular public lands - they don't own any land nor do they own treasure discovered on those lands and have no right to negotiate a "finders fee" for United States property located on public lands.

Also you now know that neither Jesuits nor Akimel O'odham will have a prior claim on any treasure found on public lands - if it is indeed treasure.

Treasure trove law is really interesting. There have been large treasures discovered and recovered with treasure trove permits on public lands in the southwest before. In every case I know of the federal government was thankful for a citizen donating their time, money and resources to recover government property. Unfortunately there are no medals or ribbons for those efforts so I hope the treasure finders have rich memories of their adventure.

Maybe if after you recover the treasure you will share some of the knowledge you have gained in your pursuit? I understand your reluctance to go into detail before you recover the treasure but I'm sure your acquired knowledge on treasure law and procedures would be safe to share after your recovery. It would help clarify for readers here the obvious confusion between treasure law and antiquities law that's been conflated here and elsewhere.

I’m interested in reading about the instances you are aware of. I have stacks of TH magazines that likely played telephone regarding how things went down. Might be interesting if nothing else.