UPDATE: 1659 LORD BALTIMORE SIXPENCE AUTHENTICATED, GRADED AND SLABBED - PICS!!

[Bill D. (VA)]

Not long after making this incredible find I made contact with one of the country's leading colonial coin experts, John Kraljevich in SC, thanks to a reference given by my friend Don in SJ. A very short time later John actually came by my house while in the area and took the coin with him to perform some careful, professional cleaning. Not all of the greenish surface corrosion could be removed without damaging the coin, but it was a definite improvement. He then shipped it off to PCGS for authentication, grading and slabbing. As John had told me when he first saw the coin, the details were exceptional and the coin graded out at a very high Extra Fine (EF). It was placed in a nice, labeled holder and returned to John, and he then sent it to a coin photographer he uses on the West Coast for a few pics. The coin is in route to me now, and I should finally have it back in my hands today or tomorrow after being gone for 2 months. John forwarded some of the images taken of the sixpence which I'm sharing below. As far as value, the 2015 Red Book lists the Lord Baltimore sixpence in EF condition as worth $14,000, and only about 60 are known to exist, including a hoard of 19 of them recovered in England about 15 years ago which unfortunately drove down the price. Mine along with a 4 pence groat and copper denarium dug by my friends Stan and Audie a few years ago are the only known Lord Baltimore examples to have been dug in the US. However, due to the damage from being holed it would probably only sell for about half that price to a serious collector at auction per John's opinion. But as I've said before, this baby will NOT be sold. So once I receive the coin back from the photographer I have to consider this saga to finally be at its end. But I will never forget that day when I plucked this beauty out from the middle of nowhere in a huge field, and I was happy to be able to share that moment with my good friend Joey.

For those that did not get a chance to read the original post about this find you can click on the link below:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...ilver-sixpence-dug-yesterday.html#post4211462

I'm also just finishing up a full-length article on this find for one of the major detecting magazines. It should be published next spring.

 

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[Tnmountains]

Merry Christmas. What a fun journey. It is in good hands now. It will not be lost or stolen from a museum and will not sit in an archeologist's desk drawer.
Happy detecting!

 

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[Bill D. (VA)]

So is this the point where you bury it for someone else to find?

Yep, I think Abe and I will bury our coins in each other's back yard so we can experience the thrill of digging another first. But we have to return them to the original owner.

 

[MUDSLINGER]

just reread your post; I'm puzzeled at why the value of this very rare coin seems low in my opinion when compared to dr tones 1901s barber quarter? both are great finds but a lord baltimore with only 60 known to exist. my chances of finding a 1901s barber quarter seems so much more in the realm of possibilities. just wondering if i am missing something. still super finds for both

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

just reread your post; I'm puzzeled at why the value of this very rare coin seems low in my opinion when compared to dr tones 1901s barber quarter? both are great finds but a lord baltimore with only 60 known to exist. my chances of finding a 1901s barber quarter seems so much more in the realm of possibilities. just wondering if i am missing something. still super finds for both[/QUOTE

Yesterday I made a similar reply under the 1901S quarter post. In addition to the Lord Baltimore coin, I've found others that have a lower mintage than that quarter but they're only worth a fraction of that amount. It must be something unusual going on there, possibly those coins were recalled and melted down for some reason, or they were never released. I was also just reading where there were a tremendous number of counterfeits of that coin made, so that could be what he has.

 

[Ahab8]

Yep, I think Abe and I will bury our coins in each other's back yard so we can experience the thrill of digging another first. But we have to return them to the original owner.

Sounds good buddy! I hope you dig a tree coin one day and the way you're going that doesn't seem like it'd be much of a surprise. But the chances of me finding a Lord Baltimore are probably as close to zero as possible. Maybe another tree coin some day or a NE Shilling. Now that would be another dream come true. It's funny cause after I found the PTS it's like all the pressure just faded away. I put a lot of pressure on myself to find something great. Now it's like I'm just out there having fun until I get over that next dream find. Don't tell my gf but I will be getting out a bunch this week. I'm working under a wharf and it's on the tide schedule so I have the mornings off. Heck yeah :-)

 

[Bubba65]

Congrats Bill again on Great Coin, real glad it all turned out real well. I too would not sell it, but then again I have never sold anything in 28 years of detecting. I guess you will just have to dig the next Lord Baltimore with out a hole

 

[Silver Tree Chaser]

Bill - Your Lord Baltimore six-pence is already on page five? Not if I can help it at least for a little while. I fell behind on replies and had to go looking for your post. Whenever I attempted to send a reply for the first few days, I would start gazing, transfixed at the sight of that remarkable find and loose track of time. Anyway, it's back to page one for your coin for a little while. It looks great. You did really well. I went with NCS (NGC) for my Oak Tree Shilling, and I believe that PCGS is the better choice. Congrats on a sensational find!

P.S. - Your avatar is pretty awesome as well!

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Bill - Your Lord Baltimore six-pence is already on page five? Not if I can help it at least for a little while. I fell behind on replies and had to go looking for your post. Whenever I attempted to send a reply for the first few days, I would start gazing, transfixed at the sight of that remarkable find and loose track of time. Anyway, it's back to page one for your coin for a little while. It looks great. You did really well. I went with NCS (NGC) for my Oak Tree Shilling, and I believe that PCGS is the better choice. Congrats on a sensational find!

P.S. - Your avatar is pretty awesome as well!

Thanks Jim for your comments, and for retrieving my post from the depths of the forum .... haha. I guess everyone has seen enough of that coin. That's OK, its time to move on and search for that next banner find. But that will be a tough assignment as this season is turning out to be a difficult one for a variety of reasons. But all it takes is one new killer site, and hopefully we can find one soon. I appreciate your support as always, and hope you can swing your coil over an amazing find soon ..... Bill

 

[flyadive]

Bill , thanks for sharing.. Just kidding!
Great job, I have found some nice finds myself. Sent them for grading and came back as " Environmental Damage" ! Perhaps John would be willing to take on some coppers as well as silver coins for cleaning?
How much does he charge?

 

[Trezurehunter]

Simply outstanding !

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Bill , thanks for sharing.. Just kidding!
Great job, I have found some nice finds myself. Sent them for grading and came back as " Environmental Damage" ! Perhaps John would be willing to take on some coppers as well as silver coins for cleaning?
How much does he charge?

John charged me a single price to clean the coin, get it authenticated, graded and slabbed at PCGS, and to get some professional pics done. This price also included all the shipping costs involved. I'm not sure what kind of coins you have, but John is one of the country's top colonial coin experts, and as far as I know is only interested in rare and valuable specimens. However, if you'd like to find out for yourself send me a PM and I'll pass on John's contact info. But I'm fairly certain he's not going to be interested in cleaning coins of a more common nature, colonial or otherwise.

 

[Iron Patch]

Bill , thanks for sharing.. Just kidding!
Great job, I have found some nice finds myself. Sent them for grading and came back as " Environmental Damage" ! Perhaps John would be willing to take on some coppers as well as silver coins for cleaning?
How much does he charge?

You have to keep in mind it was a very light cleaning on what was an already pretty decent silver coin, and I can pretty much
guarantee John K. has no better answers for the typical dug copper than what you'd get here.

 

[BuckleBoy]

just reread your post; I'm puzzeled at why the value of this very rare coin seems low in my opinion when compared to dr tones 1901s barber quarter? both are great finds but a lord baltimore with only 60 known to exist. my chances of finding a 1901s barber quarter seems so much more in the realm of possibilities. just wondering if i am missing something. still super finds for both

Yesterday I made a similar reply under the 1901S quarter post. In addition to the Lord Baltimore coin, I've found others that have a lower mintage than that quarter but they're only worth a fraction of that amount. It must be something unusual going on there, possibly those coins were recalled and melted down for some reason, or they were never released. I was also just reading where there were a tremendous number of counterfeits of that coin made, so that could be what he has.

It's all about demand. When I think of all the Louisiana trade tokens which we've found, there were 4 dug by my team that are unlisted. If not unique (so far), the number of surviving examples is certainly less than 100. Of course, few people collect these. So when an unlisted token from my state comes onto the market, it is generally sold for $100-$150, and the higher end of that figure is if there is a bidding war. Certainly many others who collect colonial era coinage, and then of course many, many more who collect coins from the Barber series. All about demand. Personally, I'd much rather have the rarer find than the more valuable one.

By the way, I meant to ask, do you know what method John used to clean your coin? I might like to send my planters bank countermarked quarter cut 8 reales to be cleaned and slabbed.


Best Wishes and Congrats again,

Buck

 

[Iron Patch]

It's all about demand. When I think of all the Louisiana trade tokens which we've found, there were 4 dug by my team that are unlisted. If not unique (so far), the number of surviving examples is certainly less than 100. Of course, few people collect these. So when an unlisted token from my state comes onto the market, it is generally sold for $100-$150, and the higher end of that figure is if there is a bidding war. Certainly many others who collect colonial era coinage, and then of course many, many more who collect coins from the Barber series. All about demand. Personally, I'd much rather have the rarer find than the more valuable one.

By the way, I meant to ask, do you know what method John used to clean your coin? I might like to send my planters bank countermarked quarter cut 8 reales to be cleaned and slabbed.


Best Wishes and Congrats again,

Buck

It is demand, but really is a case by case basis because you don't necessarily need a huge collecting base.... even just two who have loads of cash and really want it is enough. Bill's coin might not be valued higher than the quarter, but take away the hole and make it a much rarer variety, and it would go through the roof and smoke the quarter. The bigger base certainly gives stabilty to the market, but sure doesn't mean the next 1901 is going to beat the next Baltimore, and it would be an interesting gamble which to choose if it was just about the money and you had the option of digging one. There's enough 1901s to make it all about the condition, so I think I'd take my chances and go Baltimore!

 

[Silver Searcher]

It's all about demand. When I think of all the Louisiana trade tokens which we've found, there were 4 dug by my team that are unlisted. If not unique (so far), the number of surviving examples is certainly less than 100. Of course, few people collect these. So when an unlisted token from my state comes onto the market, it is generally sold for $100-$150, and the higher end of that figure is if there is a bidding war. Certainly many others who collect colonial era coinage, and then of course many, many more who collect coins from the Barber series. All about demand. Personally, I'd much rather have the rarer find than the more valuable one.

By the way, I meant to ask, do you know what method John used to clean your coin? I might like to send my planters bank countermarked quarter cut 8 reales to be cleaned and slabbed.


Best Wishes and Congrats again,

Buck

Looking at the coin in Bills avater it seems he didn't do much cleaning, there are a lot of marks on the coin which could have been removed On cleaning your coin it would all depend on how you want it to look... I prefer a natural cabinet tone to a silver coin which takes time, there are a few short cuts but you don't get the same effect.

The coin in my avater the William 1st, I added all the detail to that coin, it was folded two thirds up the coin were the crown is (still visible) I annealed the coin to straighten the crease out, but this affects the silver and it's difficult to put back the toning on that part.
SS

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Looking at the coin in Bills avater it seems he didn't do much cleaning, there are a lot of marks on the coin which could have been removed On cleaning your coin it would all depend on how you want it to look... I prefer a natural cabinet tone to a silver coin which takes time, there are a few short cuts but you don't get the same effect.

The coin in my avater the William 1st, I added all the detail to that coin, it was folded two thirds up the coin were the crown is (still visible) I annealed the coin to straighten the crease out, but this affects the silver and it's difficult to put back the toning on that part.
SS

The coin could have been cleaned to the point of completely removing the remaining spots of corrosion, but I believe John felt that going any further might jeopardize the overall tone and quality of the coin. I totally agree and am satisfied with the result.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

It's all about demand. When I think of all the Louisiana trade tokens which we've found, there were 4 dug by my team that are unlisted. If not unique (so far), the number of surviving examples is certainly less than 100. Of course, few people collect these. So when an unlisted token from my state comes onto the market, it is generally sold for $100-$150, and the higher end of that figure is if there is a bidding war. Certainly many others who collect colonial era coinage, and then of course many, many more who collect coins from the Barber series. All about demand. Personally, I'd much rather have the rarer find than the more valuable one.

By the way, I meant to ask, do you know what method John used to clean your coin? I might like to send my planters bank countermarked quarter cut 8 reales to be cleaned and slabbed.



Best Wishes and Congrats again,

Buck

Sorry Buck, but I really don't know the details regarding the cleaning process that was used on my coin. But I wouldn't trust anyone as much as I would John as he really knows his stuff, and figured he did all he could without risking further damage to it.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

It is demand, but really is a case by case basis because you don't necessarily need a huge collecting base.... even just two who have loads of cash and really want it is enough. Bill's coin might not be valued higher than the quarter, but take away the hole and make it a much rarer variety, and it would go through the roof and smoke the quarter. The bigger base certainly gives stabilty to the market, but sure doesn't mean the next 1901 is going to beat the next Baltimore, and it would be an interesting gamble which to choose if it was just about the money and you had the option of digging one. There's enough 1901s to make it all about the condition, so I think I'd take my chances and go Baltimore!

Excellent points IP! Thanks for your insight as usual.

 

[Iron Patch]

Sorry Buck, but I really don't know the details regarding the cleaning process that was used on my coin. But I wouldn't trust anyone as much as I would John as he really knows his stuff, and figured he did all he could without risking further damage to it.

It's probably kept secret because it's likely a lot more basic than most would imagine.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

It's probably kept secret because it's likely a lot more basic than most would imagine.

Yep, probably the same techniques we would use. But I didn't want to be responsible for ruining my own coin .... haha.