Unidentified Badge I thought it could be Scottish but failed to find it.

[alphaphil]

Hello Folks
I have a badge that is almost 2 1/2 inches high and 2 inches across.It has the wording SUB UMBRA TEGIMUR around what looks like a Phoenix with a diamond shape on its breast.I first thought this was a Scottish Clan Badge, but cant find it anywhere.It has 2 lug fasteners on the reverse and looks to be silver plated.If anyone out there can shed any info on this I would be grateful.
Many thanks
Phil

 

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[PBK]

Phil--

I agree: it's almost certainly a clan badge, with all the usual heraldic elements— garter border, torse, motto, etc. The motto is Latin, of course. Sub = under; umbra = shade/shadow; tegimur = protect/defend or hide/cover.

If you haven't gone through it already, I believe that a large number of these badges are illustrated and attributed in Collins' Scottish Clan and Family Encyclopaedia by George Way & Romilly Squire, published by Harper Collins (ISBN 0 00 470547 5). Unfortunately, I don't have access to a copy, but no doubt you can find it easily enough there in the U.K.

 

[Batch]

Well, not that this is much help but here goes...

The words are Latin and loosely translated means "under cover of darkness" (follow this link...http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?SUB+UMBRA+TEGIMUR+) to see how I got this.

And from all the pictures I have viewed, the bird is a representation of a Phoenix. Sadly I cannot pull anything else up yet...I'm guessing a military unit medal though. I'll keep looking...

Good luck!

Batch

 

[Batch]

I see PBK (an OUTSTANDING individual) and I were posting at the same time. I will bow to his knowledge as to being a clan badge. Thanks PBK for all you do for us!

Batch

 

[Batch]

Sorry to keep adding to this post but I have located a clan expert here locally who may be able to clear this up quite quickly...I'm taking a photo over now. I'll keep everyone "posted" (no pun intended...well maybe a little <grin>)

Batch

 

[Batch]

Okay...I personally have learned some stuff but still no clan name to go with this! According to the reference book (by Mike McClaren) I viewed, the bird is not a phoenix but rather a "demi-eagle". As PBK said, the strap and buckle (or garter border) with motto is the dead-giveaway this is a Scottish clan (or sept - a "sub-clan") crest. The other clan mottoes I found that included the words "sub umbra" translate it as "in/under shadow/shade".

Still looking as time allows...

HH, Batch

 

[PBK]

Hey, Batch--

Still chasing this one, too. Thought I'd post this pic of an Anderson of Edinburgh clan badge to illustrate what we're talking about. Not the same, but close enough to confirm that Alphaphil's item is almost certainly a clan badge.

All the best,
PBK

 

[Michelle]

Batch and PBk ,if this is a crest finding the identical one would be hard because you have no name to look under...most all I find are similar but it's the name that fits the style of the crest....I think? http://www.scotmall.com/handforged/index.html this looks like a scottish sock pin...

 

[Batch]

PBK - I'm just glad to be on the "helping" end of a post for once! (not that I've helped much yet but I'm tryin' <smile>)

DD - the dealer of Celtic heraldry items I showed this to today confirmed this was - without doubt on their part - a Scottish Clan Crest. As "back-up" I was allowed to thumb-surf (look in a book! <wink>) a couple of references which identified the "Strap and Buckle", the Latin mottoes, and the "thingy" on which the demi-eagle is perching (I forgot the proper name but it was described in words and pictures exactly) as well as the general design of this item as definitely Scottish.

Michelle - you are correct about the reference books being listed by name BUT I started at page one of two books today and just paged - one page at a time - through looking at the photos. Of the 350+/- I saw today, none matched. Also, while I looked at the books I READ them as well (RIF). Since then, I have been using the keywords I learned (demi-eagle not phoenix, sept vice clan, crest rather than badge) plus the words from the motto in different combos - and on more than one search engine - to find the "right" ID. Still haven't found it <smile> but not discouraged...yet.

Gosh I've learned a lot today!

until next time,

Batch

 

[PBK]

the dealer of Celtic heraldry items I showed this to today confirmed this was - without doubt on their part - a Scottish Clan Crest.

Batch,

I just got an e-mail from a research contact in Scotland confirming that attribution as well. We've sent a request to the Heraldry Society of Scotland, so maybe they can complete the ID.

If not, another possible source is The Court of the Lord Lyon, HM New Register House, Edinburgh EH1 3YT, Scotland. Unfortunately, there's no fast track there, as they require that all inquiries be submitted in writing.

 

[Michelle]

Batch and PBk ,if this is a crest finding the identical one would be hard because you have no name to look under...most all I find are similar but it's the name that fits the style of the crest....I think? http://www.scotmall.com/handforged/index.html this looks like a scottish sock pin...

Very Good work Michelle. The matching belt design that circles the eagle is perfect. The attachment points for sewing also. Now, to find what the diamond in the breast of the eagle means. I think the motto has to do with some special operations unit.
Regards,
Doc

OR Religion!

 

[Batch]

PBK, I had also found the Lord Lyon info but hadn't posted it yet...I hate to think I was selfishly sand-bagging! (I wasn't but it does appear that way) Upon reflection, I realize I should take the time to post any and all relevant information (or at least link to it) as I learn it. You're a good person PBK!

I'll keep looking...and trying to help others as well.

Batch

 

[PBK]

PBK, I had also found the Lord Lyon info but hadn't posted it yet...I hate to think I was selfishly sand-bagging! (I wasn't but it does appear that way) Upon reflection, I realize I should take the time to post any and all relevant information (or at least link to it) as I learn it. You're a good person PBK!

I'll keep looking...and trying to help others as well.

Batch

Sorry, Batch... didn't mean to tip anybody's hand. But since I'm too cheap to buy the stamps...

 

[Angelo]

BATCH!! You are a true Gentleman!!!!

Enjoy your courteous postings and information.

As far as PBK goes. Well.........I taught him all he knows.

Of course, you know I'm kidding. He is a wealth of information. I swear he has 10 people working under him.

Tony

 

[Angelo]

The only Latin I've found that is partial of: sub umbra tegimur is SUB UMBRA ALARUM VIRENS = Under the Shadow of Thy Wings.

And that belongs to the Lauder clan.

Still trying,

Tony

 

[Michelle]

The only Latin I've found that is partial of: sub umbra tegimur is SUB UMBRA ALARUM VIRENS = Under the Shadow of Thy Wings.

And that belongs to the Lauder clan.

Still trying,

Tony

About Clan Insignia http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb_clan.html#about

no word on the diamond shape yet....but,Eagle

The eagle was a symbol born by men of action, occupied with high and weighty affairs. It was given to those of lofty spirit, ingenuity, speed in comprehension, and discrimination in matters of ambiguity. The wings signify protection, and the gripping talons symbolize ruin to evildoers. The eagle is held to represent a noble nature from its strength and aristocratic appearance, as well as its association with the ancient kings of Persia, Babylon and the Roman legions, having been the official ensign of those empires. Since then, other empires and nations have also adopted the eagle as their symbol, such as the German third reich and the empire conquered by Napoleon. The eagle is also associated with the sun. As a Christian symbol, the eagle represents salvation, redemption and resurrection. The eagle has been represented over the centuries in a variety of different ways: wingtips pointed up or down, wings closed or rising or the eagle displayed from above with one or two heads. Parts of the eagle such as the head, wings, legs or talons, are also often symbols in heraldry. An interesting form of the eagle is the alerion, which is drawn without the beak or the legs. It is thought to represent a formerly great warrior who was seriously injured in combat and is no longer able to fight. The osprey may also be classed with the eagle. It is always represented as a white eagle and is referred to in heraldry as a sea-eagle.


Motto

Most commonly written in Latin, mottoes are suspected to have started out as battle cries before conflict

 

[Michelle]

 

[gollum]

"Sub Umbra" simply means "In the Shadow of". There is a Christian Sect whos motto is Sub Umbra Pietr (In the shadow of Peter). Has anybody looked for a Mount Tegimur or something similar? Maybe it is the name of an Eagle or Landmark in Scottish Mythology.

Mike

 

[diggummup]

Possibly, and I only say possibly, this might be a Fifth Columnists or Resistance badge and nothing to do with Scots at all. This suggested by the Latin. There appears to be a belt around the perimeter of this device. The back suggests how it might have been suspended.

Doc

Might? possibly? this doesn't dound like the doc I know.Show me an example of one of these.

 

[Batch]

Angelo/Tony,

Thank you for the kind words...I am humbled. As for your comments re: PBK...yep, one of the best!

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help." <ROFL>

Batch