Unearthed war relics from Africa

[boertjie]

This is a follow-up posting on Boer war relics unearthed in Northen Natal some time ago.

This pic shows 2 nicely preserved Lee-Enfield cartridges, Mauser and Martini Henry cartridges and a Quedes (?) spent cartridge case.



1/2 penny coin dated 1899 found at British camp dump site



British artillery tunic buttons



I found this US button at the site but I am not aware of any US involvement in the Boer War. This button looks as of military origin. Can someone help with this? I include a pic of backside as well.




In this pic you can see British pith helmet top ventilators (wheels), brass button cleaner plate with stamped military ID number, webbing clasps, cavalry straps clasps and brass tent hooks



Tooth brush, shaving blade and spoon with ID number stamped



Bayonet scabbards, tent peg and steel heels for boots.



British water canteen and 2 kinds of mess tins



Spurs, steel brush for horses and saddle parts



Very interesting find: button of Essex Imperial Yeomanry



British pipe with "DUBLIN" written on it

 

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[ivan salis]

the american button---great seal button---- try WW1 or WW2 for that its time frame

 

[CRUSADER]

Wow, I am finding lots of those wheels in my WWI dump field (see my posts). I thought they were off toys

 

[mtbiker]

Super finds!!

 

[boertjie]

thanks ivan


Crusader,

I think the ww1 pattern pith helmet must be an upgrade of the colonial pith helmet but I think the brass parts must be very similar. I found so many of those wheels maybe the helmets were so fragile and were replaced regularly?

regards
boertjie

 

[CRUSADER]

thanks ivan


Crusader,

I think the ww1 pattern pith helmet must be an upgrade of the colonial pith helmet but I think the brass parts must be very similar. I found so many of those wheels maybe the helmets were so fragile and were replaced regularly?

regards
boertjie

Maybe mine are off toys as they are lead-alloy not brass?

 

[boertjie]

Super finds!!

Thanks

 

[beerbarrel]

Fantastic finds, keep the pics coming, I sure enjoy seeing them.


Beerbarrel
(Texas)

 

[outraged]

Hmmm secret US involvement in a war.....Not surprising...When i was in the Corp's we were sent places we NEVER went to... Shhhh

 

[Jack(IN)]

Nice finds and thanks for sharing!!

 

[boertjie]

Fantastic finds, keep the pics coming, I sure enjoy seeing them.


Beerbarrel
(Texas)

Beerbarrel
Thanks, next will be battlefield finds, I must still take pics but it will be some time.
regards
(I enjoy your nickname )
Tinus

 

[ivan salis]

the us had troops in both world wars 1 and 2 stationed in southern africa---the finds seem to be a mixed bag of war stuff dutch ,british,german and american---from the following wars-----boar war ---late 1800's early 1900's time frame--- and both world war 1 & 2--- the lee enfield .303 bullets and the mauser bullets were the same in all three wars---as they were the standard arms of the day --- the boer war was the locals "dutch boers " rebels fighting the british goverment for their independance forming "south africa" in the process---Ivan

 

[boertjie]

the us had troops in both world wars 1 and 2 stationed in southern africa---the finds seem to be a mixed bag of war stuff dutch ,british,german and american---from the following wars-----boar war ---late 1800's early 1900's time frame--- and both world war 1 & 2--- the lee enfield .303 bullets and the mauser bullets were the same in all three wars---as they were the standard arms of the day --- the boer war was the locals "dutch boers " rebels fighting the british goverment for their independance forming "south africa" in the process---Ivan

Thanks Ivan

Yes, the 303 and Mausers were used from colonial times right through to ww2. But please note that boer war bullets differ from ww1 bullets where the bullet heads were rounded in the boer war and since ww1 were made the more sharp pointed shape as still being the case in modern times.

The 2 Boer Republics bought 49000 mauser rifles (mod 98) from Germany in 1896-1897.

The finds are definitely from the Boer war as there were no battles fought of ww1 or ww2 in South Africa. Many items found at these sites were dated 1896 -1899.

Regards
boertjie

 

[ivan salis]

ah thanks for the round nose / sharp nosed tip-on the 303 bullets I have seen sharp nose bullets for the 303 being that I got a big batch of military "surplus" on 5 round stipper clips for target shooting them for a old WW 2 lee enfield rifle that I owned ---used it for deer hunting here in america---I also got lead tipped round nose hunting bullets that I got for hunting (its illegal to hunt deer with fully jacketed type military bullets here in america--you most use lead tips ) so I thought there were both kinds for them made by britian---the american button (the great seal) was a standard uniform button for american army troops in both world wars I'll have to check up on when it was first issued if it went back far enough for it to have been on uniforms in the boer war era---maybe it was lost by a us military member stationed or traveling thru south africa back during one of the world wars---the button should have some words on the back that could help date it by the manufactor that supplied it hopefully --if its indeed a boer war era button it might have been from a america soldier who mustered out and went to south africa and fought for the dutch side or from a american "observer" sent over with british forces sent to see what was happening --to the best of my knowledge no us troops took part "offically" in the boer war. humm this very interesting indeed---Ivan

 

[CRUSADER]

ah thanks for the round nose / sharp nosed tip-on the 303 bullets I have seen sharp nose bullets for the 303 being that I got a big batch of military "surplus" on 5 round stipper clips for target shooting them for a old WW 2 lee enfield rifle that I owned ---used it for deer hunting here in america---I also got lead tipped round nose hunting bullets that I got for hunting (its illegal to hunt deer with fully jacketed type military bullets here in america--you most use lead tips ) so I thought there were both kinds for them made by britian---the american button (the great seal) was a standard uniform button for american army troops in both world wars I'll have to check up on when it was first issued if it went back far enough for it to have been on uniforms in the boer war era---maybe it was lost by a us military member stationed or traveling thru south africa back during one of the world wars---the button should have some words on the back that could help date it by the manufactor that supplied it hopefully --if its indeed a boer war era button it might have been from a america soldier who mustered out and went to south africa and fought for the dutch side or from a american "observer" sent over with british forces sent to see what was happening --to the best of my knowledge no us troops took part "offically" in the boer war. humm this very interesting indeed---Ivan

All the British Buttons he has pictured have Victoria's Crown on the top of them. Making them Victorian. These we NEVER used in WWI.

 

[boertjie]

All the British Buttons he has pictured have Victoria's Crown on the top of them. Making them Victorian. These we NEVER used in WWI.

Hi Crusader

You seem to be much knowledgable on Victorian matters ; Do you know what is "Imperial Yeomanry", on the one button that I found?

thanks
boertjie

 

[ivan salis]

I was of course was speaking only of the american (great seal button) when saying world war 1 or 2 ---the other stuff is all indeed boer war--- I totally agree with that---note me thanking him for the round nosed 303 being from the late 1800's a fact that I was unaware of in my post --- and while as he said no battles took place in south africa that doesn't mean there were no us troops in the area at that time in world war 1 and 2----one might have been poking around at the old battle site and lost a button---I think a bit of research as to when the great seal button was first issued might help in finding this out---if indeed the buttons were issued in the era of the boar war them he may have a very rare find indeed---a american serviceman who discharged and went to fight on the dutch side or a "observer" sent by america to see what was happening with the british---very interesting either way---Ivan

 

[nahabit]

wow! very intresting! Where you have found it?? in the field or in the trench?

 

[ivan salis]

update on the modern type great seal button like the one shownpn the photo---the button was first issued in 1902 on enlisted men uniforms---so its not a boar war item (had to be after 1902 when it was lost)---WW1 or 2 enlisted service man or off a military jacket maybe that a local got 2 hand.---the other stuff oh yah boer war all the way--- Ivan

 

[boertjie]

I was of course was speaking only of the american (great seal button) when saying world war 1 or 2 ---the other stuff is all indeed boer war--- I totally agree with that---note me thanking him for the round nosed 303 being from the late 1800's a fact that I was unaware of in my post --- and while as he said no battles took place in south africa that doesn't mean there were no us troops in the area at that time in world war 1 and 2----one might have been poking around at the old battle site and lost a button---I think a bit of research as to when the great seal button was first issued might help in finding this out---if indeed the buttons were issued in the era of the boar war them he may have a very rare find indeed---a american serviceman who discharged and went to fight on the dutch side or a "observer" sent by america to see what was happening with the british---very interesting either way---Ivan

Hi Ivan; I would be greatfull if you can maybe find out about the US button

Why is it called a "great seal" button?
regards
boertjie