- Feb 9, 2020
- 7,341
- 14,242
- Detector(s) used
- XP Deus
Minelab E-Trac
- Primary Interest:
- Metal Detecting
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Really need a coin makers opinion. Well ,coin folks in the know anyways...
A gob of something in the die padding the base of the pillar or where it should rest perhaps. More than grease? But not as hard as a piece of metal?
A piece of felt comes to mind. No , I don't even have an idea how felt would be involved...But I'm leaning towards a single strike (or more) of a foreign material in the die. A chive in your teeth type set up or something...
We all were amped up for days, and buzzing around the spot for a week. Looks like these coins were the very first off the new screw press with collar. There were multiple dies, and this one was flawed....someone is looking in Mexican Bank records for some info on this stuffI'd have been so freakin geeked up cranked up jumping around!
Cripes. I can recall how excited I was hitting dirt piles in a park with nothing anywhere near that old. Just knowing stuff was there.
I might have fought a tiger off over a dime from the nineteen hundreds down in the trench in one area! L.o.l..
lots of ways to get crud on a die there!We all were amped up for days, and buzzing around the spot for a week. Looks like these coins were the very first off the new screw press with collar. There were multiple dies, and this one was flawed....someone is looking in Mexican Bank records for some info on this stuff
Agreed, every die was handmade and there are going to be differences between all of them. Add to that dies wear further altering the details. The planchet is the blank that the coin is struck on, so a difference in the design would have nothing to do with the planchet, if the difference is in the die it would be classified as a variety.I'm seeing different dies being used just in the samples you posted. Looking at the other pillars, I see the bases are different too. Also one has a floating crown! As crude as minting was back then, I would imagine there are all sorts of differences between coins from the same date and mint.
Ok... 🤞Yup...me too ultimately its up to my friend, but we may drive up and have some experts look at it. Cross your fingers.
Die variety....im learning. The floating pillar variety 1733 8 reale milled pillar dollar !! WOOOO HOOOO !! As Icutler explained!! The defect was in the die !! Now the question is how many struck coins made it off the press before it was caught ?? And out of those how many were melted after salvaging from the wrecks? and how many are still in the wild locked under US1 and a foot of asphalt and brick ? How many die varieties are there ?? So cool to think we may have the first seen of this variety, and with the rare F mint mark !! Most of these coins seen are of the MX mint mark.lots of ways to get crud on a die there!
One of these posts has a link to the screw press and how it works, and yes....it was the first of a new process....im seeing the difference in crowns too....my terminology was lacking, but I did see that crown looked a tiny bit different. There are 5, maybe 6 different varieties now. It seems a rival treasure hunter here has collected 5 different die varieties in 1732, and 1733 pillars that he has......apparently he has quite a few ?I'm seeing different dies being used just in the samples you posted. Looking at the other pillars, I see the bases are different too. Also one has a floating crown! As crude as minting was back then, I would imagine there are all sorts of differences between coins from the same date and mint.
Thank you so much for that clarification....it really makes a difference in understanding what we are seeing, and allows me to describe more accurately to the experts !! My lack of terminology wasn't helping me at all.....its not an error....its a die variety!! I've herd unofficially from another hunter that he has seen 5 varieties in his collection for the first 2 years...I can't confirm this, because there's just not to many documented examples. Most are of the MX mint mark, and not the F mint mark we find on the wrecks.....most of the first 2 years of these iconic coins sank in the 1733 fleet disaster.....the ones that were salvaged were almost entirely melted and given to the catholic church to atone for king phillip the 5ths sins !! It was said the church blamed him for the loss of life......his vanity in delaying the departure of the fleets sailing so that his precious new milled coins could be finished was directly responsible for the fleet sailing late into hurricane season !! So what's left of these special 8 reales lie scattered amongst the keys !!Agreed, every die was handmade and there are going to be differences between all of them. Add to that dies wear further altering the details. The planchet is the blank that the coin is struck on, so a difference in the design would have nothing to do with the planchet, if the difference is in the die it would be classified as a variety.
The emerging theory is that there was a cache of coins stashed here by salveagers or survivors. Later during railroad construction this cache was disturbed, but not noticed by the crew. Later a German immigrant "Homer ludwig" may have found gold coins here on the beach from this rail disturbance. There is a whole legend about him and his coins. Some threads exist here relating the legend. Anyway the 1935 hurricane blew away the railroad, and they started the road way....the cache was again disturbed and coins were scattered on the beach and dune. Digging with heavy equipment back then actually broke open a lost or buried chest (I have iron remnants of it) Later in the late 60s, early 70s......people started finding coins, emeralds, gold chain, and all types of the 1733 coinage, and earlier cobb coins, klippe coins, and the very first milled 8s. Thousands were picked up over the years with many other treasures. In the 2000s I started hitting it and zeroed in quickly on this chest site, and finally the big dig....they got that chest in the digger, because there was a large clump of fused coins found....with a couple gold escudos. The coins I found in earlier years had been disturbed from this main source !! This all played out over a number of years, culminating with the big road dig....everything is locked up tight under road and brick now.....sealed until the next category 5 hurricane 🌀 rips it all back up !!That was an amazing time that you guys had at the site. One must wonder what is actually still under the road system, or what was recovered when it was done in the first place.
Hoping for great results that this coin is a winner.
Incredible thanks for shareingAnyone who knows me here on t-net knows I've had a fair share of success finding 1733 fleet treasure !! Well others have shared with me in this success, and it's been especially exciting in the last few years. I was involved in a treasure cache with some others and it turned out to be quite a haul, with a half dozen people all getting good amounts of coins and artifacts from a beach renourishment dig !! But these big milled spanish 8 reales are some of the most prized finds from this incredible dig. Well recently one of these finds was getting put in a bezel, when everyone noticed an error !! SAY WHAT !! A treasure coin that's already rare and valuable has an error ?? Well it's for real here it is a couple years later after being noticed!!View attachment 2120184
The floating pillar not attached to the waves !! Lots of searching, and my own experience, and not a single match. Experts seem stumped, and we may be driving up to sedwick coins to have it looked at over Christmas break. It came from the same cache as these, and it's clear.....its a different planchet with an error. A 1733 pillar is as rare as hens teeth, and this has never been seen before (we think) View attachment 2120185
One expert from melfishers treasures (the expert) had never seen this planchet and was shaking a bit holding it. Still researching, and don't want to get over excited, but its looking good so far.View attachment 2120186View attachment 2120187
Digging the cache !!
I can't imagine what this would do at sedgwick or heritage auctions if everything can be verified and official!! These coins are already rare and expensive!! So happy for my friend who found this one.....this just might be the ONE !!
Here's a link to my original post.....at this time no one had noticed this floating pillar, and my friend went to have the coin mounted in a bezel, and then it was noticed.....this was last week !!
Thread 'More treasure found...1733 pillar dollar !!' https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/more-treasure-found-1733-pillar-dollar.656316/