Ugh ebay buyers!!!

[jerseyben]

No, you ship economy and do the billion bubble wrap thing. Upgraded shipping only decreases time, does not increase protection. (unless you think getting it there quicker means less chance of damage, but that's a bad strategy)

You should only purchase insurance that's appropriate to cover a loss because you're packing should be good enough to make it. For anything fragile you won't win a claim anyway unless the packing was sufficient and it was basically destroyed. Plus claims suck to deal with and I have walked away from as much as $100 just because I didn't want the hassle.

LISTEN TO IP!

Agreed 100%! Careful packing and detailed pictures/description is the lesson to learn here. Insurance is largely a waste of money. Important to note that insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. Basically, it would have to be destroyed completely for you to successfully file a claim. It would also have to be clearly damaged in shipment. Additionally, you will have to have substantial proof of its replaceable value. Good luck filing a claim if you ever actually have to. Economy shipping only applies to travel time, not to care in handling.

A personal suggestion: Try to sell stuff that is easy to ship and easy to protect/package. That is what I do. I have only sold a few electronic items in the past and the only returned item I ever had was an electronic item (and yes I clearly stated it was AS-IS in the auction, yada yada yada). Also, there is functionally no such thing as "not accepting returns". I always check off that I don't accept returns to discourage people from changing their minds and then wasting time/shipping money. But, my unofficial policy is that if someone emails me and wants their money back, I will accommodate them.

 

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[bazinga]

Listen to Iron Patch and jerseyben. They know what they are talking about here. There are some basic rules you need to learn about ebay. Just consider this a lesson and remember that it's the best kind of education that you can get and it didn't cost much. Be thankful it wasn't a $400 featherweight.

1) There is no such thing as no returns. Period. If you accept PayPal, you accept returns. Might as well put that you accept returns in all of your listings and get the improved search results. If a buyer wants to return an item, then let them. Don't squabble over it. Losing money on one item won't kill you in the long run. See the bigger picture here. Don't be like some sellers and get overly angry over one item and quit selling on ebay or any other venue. Treat your selling like a business and expect losses. Whenever I have somebody ask about a return, I reply cheerfully and say yes, of course you can return it. And then I remind them that I do not refund the cost of shipping either way, and this usually stops the buyers remorse returns on most items.

2) Insurance is for suckers. Signature confirmation is a lifesaver. If you purchase insurance, you won't be covered unless the packaging was done impeccably. And if it was done that well, insurance was never needed in the first place. Pack well, period. I ship anywhere from 3000-5000 items a year. I get insurance on like 5 items a year. How much would insurance cost on those 5000 items? $10,000+ per year. How much have I lost in the past 5 years due to broken items? $0.

3) Look into local box companies for peanuts in bulk. Bags big enough to fit a person into can be had for $20-25 for the average consumer in my area. I paid $13.50 a bag for my last bag since I buy in bulk. 14 cu. ft is the size I get I think. Don't go wasting your money buying those tiny bags at walmart or the ups store for stupid amounts of money.

4) I'm tired of typing.

 

[calisdad]

I do signature confirmation as well but insurance has saved me in the past and I won't ship without it. All the bubble wrap in the world won't help you if the item is lost in transit. It hasn't cost me a dime as buyer pays shipping costs.

 

[Iron Patch]

Listen to Iron Patch and jerseyben. They know what they are talking about here. There are some basic rules you need to learn about ebay. Just consider this a lesson and remember that it's the best kind of education that you can get and it didn't cost much. Be thankful it wasn't a $400 featherweight.

1) There is no such thing as no returns. Period. If you accept PayPal, you accept returns. Might as well put that you accept returns in all of your listings and get the improved search results. If a buyer wants to return an item, then let them. Don't squabble over it. Losing money on one item won't kill you in the long run. See the bigger picture here. Don't be like some sellers and get overly angry over one item and quit selling on ebay or any other venue. Treat your selling like a business and expect losses. Whenever I have somebody ask about a return, I reply cheerfully and say yes, of course you can return it. And then I remind them that I do not refund the cost of shipping either way, and this usually stops the buyers remorse returns on most items.

2) Insurance is for suckers. Signature confirmation is a lifesaver. If you purchase insurance, you won't be covered unless the packaging was done impeccably. And if it was done that well, insurance was never needed in the first place. Pack well, period. I ship anywhere from 3000-5000 items a year. I get insurance on like 5 items a year. How much would insurance cost on those 5000 items? $10,000+ per year. How much have I lost in the past 5 years due to broken items? $0.

3) Look into local box companies for peanuts in bulk. Bags big enough to fit a person into can be had for $20-25 for the average consumer in my area. I paid $13.50 a bag for my last bag since I buy in bulk. 14 cu. ft is the size I get I think. Don't go wasting your money buying those tiny bags at walmart or the ups store for stupid amounts of money.

4) I'm tired of typing.

I do things in much the same way, which is being my own insurance company. That's why when I end up on the hook for $50 I don't really care because I saved $500.

I do disagree slightly about the return thing.... the might as well accept them part. I think when you say no returns a lot of people that are on the fence about whether they're happy with what they bought, will keep the item. But if you accept returns a buyer knows it's simple to send it back, and they are much more likely to do so, and I don't believe that is fair to the seller. So what I think is best is to list no returns but have some text saying that problems can easily be worked out, and you do work them out when they happen.

 

[antlerman23]

I use styrofoam, broken up into small pieces. Dumpster diving works for me for free.

GENIUS!!!!!!

 

[bazinga]

I do things in much the same way, which is being my own insurance company. That's why when I end up on the hook for $50 I don't really care because I saved $500.

I do disagree slightly about the return thing.... the might as well accept them part. I think when you say no returns a lot of people that are on the fence about whether they're happy with what they bought, will keep the item. But if you accept returns a buyer knows it's simple to send it back, and they are much more likely to do so, and I don't believe that is fair to the seller. So what I think is best is to list no returns but have some text saying that problems can easily be worked out, and you do work them out when they happen.

I accept returns because one, due to ebays silly algorithms it will improve your search results. And two, I've not purchased from a seller on many occasions because they didn't offer returns and purchased from a competitor for more money. But this is also what I do full time, so I don't mind getting returns. It's just a part of doing business for me.

 

[Iron Patch]

I accept returns because one, due to ebays silly algorithms it will improve your search results. And two, I've not purchased from a seller on many occasions because they didn't offer returns and purchased from a competitor for more money. But this is also what I do full time, so I don't mind getting returns. It's just a part of doing business for me.

I see, but different for me, because I don't really need extra search results, and as a buyer I know exactly what I'm buying, or willing to risk it, or it's not enough money to really care... so I never even look at if returns are offered. Almost every seller will take a return anyway regardless of their policy because like we've stated a few times it's just not worth the fight. That said, if I'm returning something it has nothing to do with an error on my part, if it's my mistake I'll own it and eat the loss. I just see no point in taking items back simply because the buyer changed their mind, and what's worse is people bidding to win knowing they can get the item and then decide if it's worth keeping. Anyway, everyone has their own way, I just know how I prefer to do things.

 

[bazinga]

I guess I see the returns accepted differently than you do, IP. I've never accepted returns due to buyer's remorse. I put in my terms that returns are accepted if the item is misrepresented.

Plus, over the years I've bought thousands of items off of ebay. The sellers with NO RETURNS listed all over their listing have tended to be jerks to me and the process takes weeks to sort out.... PITA for me. I don't enjoy being berated by the seller when they misrepresent their items, and it seems about 50% of the items I have to return are to these kinds of sellers. I used to get frequent letters from ebay because I opened up too many claims to get my money back. So many sellers list items as brand new / factory sealed and send me their used items, it's incredible. I used to return about 25% of what I purchased, and if you are buying 100+ items a month it becomes a real hassle.

 

[Iron Patch]

I guess I see the returns accepted differently than you do, IP. I've never accepted returns due to buyer's remorse. I put in my terms that returns are accepted if the item is misrepresented.

Plus, over the years I've bought thousands of items off of ebay. The sellers with NO RETURNS listed all over their listing have tended to be jerks to me and the process takes weeks to sort out.... PITA for me. I don't enjoy being berated by the seller when they misrepresent their items, and it seems about 50% of the items I have to return are to these kinds of sellers. I used to get frequent letters from ebay because I opened up too many claims to get my money back. So many sellers list items as brand new / factory sealed and send me their used items, it's incredible. I used to return about 25% of what I purchased, and if you are buying 100+ items a month it becomes a real hassle.

Then essentially you are doing the same thing as I am if you have conditions to the return, and the reason it doesn't matter is because I doubt either one of us ever list something that would qualify under your personal policy.


We obviously do very different things because to me to have to return 25% is insane. How insane.... I've only returned 3 in 12 years and that would be from thousands of items purchased. One was two coins that were very not as described and I would have lost about $400, another was an 18th century tobacco box that looked great in the pics but the actual condition was heavily polished/scratched and looked brutal. The last was just a cheap shirt that didn't fit and I probably lost have the value in shipping, but there was no point in keeping it.

 

[randazzo1]

On the Returns Issue --- it doesn't really matter anymore. As has been pointed out above - return policies on ebay have become somewhat meaningless.

Generally - if a buyer doesn't like an item - they can simply file a Not as Described or "SNAD" claim with eBay OR paypal - and as a seller, you are pretty much SOL unless the buyer slips up in their claim description. Based on my experience, most buyers are pretty savvy, and keep it simple --- e.g. - "Seller sent wrong item" or "Item all smashed up" --- those are almost impossible to refute. It doesn't matter how you described the item, how many boilerplate advisements you had in your listing or anything else. If buyer claims you sent the wrong item - or claims it was completely destroyed-- you're going to end up issuing a refund.

So - as also stated above, its easier to just have a good return policy.

Also - I can't tell you how many times I've bought something online, or in a store and just assumed I could return it. Its kind of the norm these days. Even some thrift stores take returns - or at least issue credits.

 

[bazinga]

We obviously do very different things because to me to have to return 25% is insane.

I had to stop buying because I was returning too much. It became too much work. It's honestly amazing how many sellers with 5000+ fb list an item as new / factory sealed and send you a used item missing parts. Or when you spend $150 on an item in sealed / mint condition and they just slap a label on that box of the item and don't even attempt to put it into an actual box with packing materials. I was spending more time dealing with returns than I had time for. Some days I would spend 1-2 hours just returning items.

And I've had people out there try to argue that it MUST be my fault.... I've also learned to NEVER buy collections on ebay from new sellers. They can't pack fragile items in bulk worth a crap. 90% arrives damaged. The other 10% arrives safe because it has the other 90% around it to protect it.

 

[randazzo1]

I had to stop buying because I was returning too much. It became too much work. It's honestly amazing how many sellers with 5000+ fb list an item as new / factory sealed and send you a used item missing parts. Or when you spend $150 on an item in sealed / mint condition and they just slap a label on that box of the item and don't even attempt to put it into an actual box with packing materials. I was spending more time dealing with returns than I had time for. Some days I would spend 1-2 hours just returning items.

And I've had people out there try to argue that it MUST be my fault.... I've also learned to NEVER buy collections on ebay from new sellers. They can't pack fragile items in bulk worth a crap. 90% arrives damaged. The other 10% arrives safe because it has the other 90% around it to protect it.

Bazinga -- this is very funny: "The other 10% arrives safe because it has the other 90% around it to protect it." I got a real chuckle out of that. Grazi!

 

[Iron Patch]

I had to stop buying because I was returning too much. It became too much work. It's honestly amazing how many sellers with 5000+ fb list an item as new / factory sealed and send you a used item missing parts. Or when you spend $150 on an item in sealed / mint condition and they just slap a label on that box of the item and don't even attempt to put it into an actual box with packing materials. I was spending more time dealing with returns than I had time for. Some days I would spend 1-2 hours just returning items.

And I've had people out there try to argue that it MUST be my fault.... I've also learned to NEVER buy collections on ebay from new sellers. They can't pack fragile items in bulk worth a crap. 90% arrives damaged. The other 10% arrives safe because it has the other 90% around it to protect it.

I actually had that happen for the first time about 2 months ago. It was some gym pants, which my first reaction upon seeing them was WTF did I buy, because they were about 6" too long. I put them away for a week just because it was stupid on my part, but finally when I took them out again to decide what to do I was pleasantly surprised to see they were clearly used, even having a nice shade of black on the white stripe at the bottom where it was dragged through the dirt by the previous owner who they were no doubt a little too long for. Things like this do get me fired up because some do seem to see what they can get away with, and figure the worse that can happen is they just have to refund. What they don't take into account, or don't care, is that I paid overseas shipping and it would be even more expensive to send them back. They were only like $35 so it definitely was not really worth it, especially since the things were $2 garage sale material. After I gave him a blast, and laid out the options which none had me out even a dollar, he just refunded the payment and that was that. I definitely had the power of holding a negative over his head, and rightfully so, so I used it. I just can't imagine having that happen a quarter of the time, it would literally drive me nuts. Just from my own personal shopping and then selling, there's no question I would not want to be in the clothing business, especially items that are on trend, or marketed towards a younger crowd. What a nightmare that would be.

 

[Iron Patch]

Correction: 2nd time. Several years back I bought a detector through Ebay for Ironhorse and not only was it not new, it didn't work! So I guess you can add a 4th item to my return list. There might be a few more but they weren't substantial enough to even remember.

 

[bazinga]

I actually had that happen for the first time about 2 months ago. It was some gym pants, which my first reaction upon seeing them was WTF did I buy, because they were about 6" too long. I put them away for a week just because it was stupid on my part, but finally when I took them out again to decide what to do I was pleasantly surprised to see they were clearly used, even having a nice shade of black on the white stripe at the bottom where it was dragged through the dirt by the previous owner who they were no doubt a little too long for. Things like this do get me fired up because some do seem to see what they can get away with, and figure the worse that can happen is they just have to refund. What they don't take into account, or don't care, is that I paid overseas shipping and it would be even more expensive to send them back. They were only like $35 so it definitely was not really worth it, especially since the things were $2 garage sale material. After I gave him a blast, and laid out the options which none had me out even a dollar, he just refunded the payment and that was that. I definitely had the power of holding a negative over his head, and rightfully so, so I used it. I just can't imagine having that happen a quarter of the time, it would literally drive me nuts. Just from my own personal shopping and then selling, there's no question I would not want to be in the clothing business, especially items that are on trend, or marketed towards a younger crowd. What a nightmare that would be.

Yeah, a lot of sellers I think try to see what they can get away with. Since I was buying the items as collectibles, the condition mattered to me. A lot would immediately fire back with offering $10 off the item. Some immediately refunded and said to keep it. Others treated me like a criminal that was trying to rob from their family. In the end, I just gave up. It became too much of a hassle. Oddly enough, I never once had an issue buying from sellers in other countries. Somehow they were able to ship better and charge less for shipping.

 

[Iron Patch]

Somehow they were able to ship better and charge less for shipping.

Probably because it was worth losing a little in shipping to open to the American market. There's still so many sellers I see that are losing bigtime because they don't want to ship out of their country.

 

[slag]

Listen to Iron Patch and jerseyben. They know what they are talking about here. There are some basic rules you need to learn about ebay. Just consider this a lesson and remember that it's the best kind of education that you can get and it didn't cost much. Be thankful it wasn't a $400 featherweight.

1) There is no such thing as no returns. Period. If you accept PayPal, you accept returns. Might as well put that you accept returns in all of your listings and get the improved search results. If a buyer wants to return an item, then let them. Don't squabble over it. Losing money on one item won't kill you in the long run. See the bigger picture here. Don't be like some sellers and get overly angry over one item and quit selling on ebay or any other venue. Treat your selling like a business and expect losses. Whenever I have somebody ask about a return, I reply cheerfully and say yes, of course you can return it. And then I remind them that I do not refund the cost of shipping either way, and this usually stops the buyers remorse returns on most items.

2) Insurance is for suckers. Signature confirmation is a lifesaver. If you purchase insurance, you won't be covered unless the packaging was done impeccably. And if it was done that well, insurance was never needed in the first place. Pack well, period. I ship anywhere from 3000-5000 items a year. I get insurance on like 5 items a year. How much would insurance cost on those 5000 items? $10,000+ per year. How much have I lost in the past 5 years due to broken items? $0.

3) Look into local box companies for peanuts in bulk. Bags big enough to fit a person into can be had for $20-25 for the average consumer in my area. I paid $13.50 a bag for my last bag since I buy in bulk. 14 cu. ft is the size I get I think. Don't go wasting your money buying those tiny bags at walmart or the ups store for stupid amounts of money.

4) I'm tired of typing.

Some good info here, some bad. Let me explain my take on it.

1. There is such a thing as no returns. Take full pictures of the entire object, front/back/sides, closeups of nicks, etc. Always record the S/N also if there is one. Always list the ad as "all sales final, no returns. If you don't want it or aren't sure, dont bid on it". I also limit where I ship to the lower 48 states, and will not ship out of country.

2. Insurance is a lifesaver. Always purchase insurance, always purchase tracking and build it into your shipping cost. Of course you will package it well, that's a no brainer. That means lots of bubblewrap and/or peanuts and double/tripple box it if its important. There's no way I can package a precious moments figurine to where a 200 lb box falling on it in a truck won't damage it. That's not my fault and that is what insurance is for. When it comes to tracking, get the full signature confirmation for USPS, not just "tracking" as that doesn't cut it. No matter what method you use, fed ex, ups, etc, ALWAYS get signature confirmation.

3. I agree with everything in this point.

4. I don't ship near the volume that this guy does, but I have been selling on Ebay since the mid 90's. I don't sell much anymore, but I have never had a return or had to issue a refund and have only had one negative on my account and that was due to a miscommunication issue on my side that I fully admitted to in the comments section and made the buyer happy due to my error.

 

[okie jack]

Some good info here, some bad. Let me explain my take on it.

1. There is such a thing as no returns. Take full pictures of the entire object, front/back/sides, closeups of nicks, etc. Always record the S/N also if there is one. Always list the ad as "all sales final, no returns. If you don't want it or aren't sure, dont bid on it". I also limit where I ship to the lower 48 states, and will not ship out of country.

2. Insurance is a lifesaver. Always purchase insurance, always purchase tracking and build it into your shipping cost. Of course you will package it well, that's a no brainer. That means lots of bubblewrap and/or peanuts and double/tripple box it if its important. There's no way I can package a precious moments figurine to where a 200 lb box falling on it in a truck won't damage it. That's not my fault and that is what insurance is for. When it comes to tracking, get the full signature confirmation for USPS, not just "tracking" as that doesn't cut it. No matter what method you use, fed ex, ups, etc, ALWAYS get signature confirmation.

3. I agree with everything in this point.

4. I don't ship near the volume that this guy does, but I have been selling on Ebay since the mid 90's. I don't sell much anymore, but I have never had a return or had to issue a refund and have only had one negative on my account and that was due to a miscommunication issue on my side that I fully admitted to in the comments section and made the buyer happy due to my error.

The thing about spending that much on shipping with insurance and all that is that the buyer always adds the price of shipping to the price of the item . What I'm saying is say I'm selling the same thing as you your shipping is say 5.00 my shipping is 2.00 both of our items is going to sell for about the same say 10.00 . You are only going to make 5.00 I'm making 8.00. I only buy insurance when the buyers feedback is not the greatest or it is worth 200 or more . I am a power seller have been for years and have never had anything lost or broke in shipping . I heard somewhere that only 1% of packages get lost inside the u.s not for sure on that but it has never happened to me . Tracking is really all I need if it is inside the u.s and is not real valuable . That is just me.

 

[bazinga]

1. There is such a thing as no returns. Take full pictures of the entire object, front/back/sides, closeups of nicks, etc. Always record the S/N also if there is one. Always list the ad as "all sales final, no returns. If you don't want it or aren't sure, dont bid on it". I also limit where I ship to the lower 48 states, and will not ship out of country.

Take my word for it, if you accept payments by PayPal, then you abide by their terms. The item can be returned. Period. All the buyer has to do is file a SNAD claim and they will win. Odds are ebay will even pay for the return shipping.

 

[Iron Patch]

The thing about spending that much on shipping with insurance and all that is that the buyer always adds the price of shipping to the price of the item . What I'm saying is say I'm selling the same thing as you your shipping is say 5.00 my shipping is 2.00 both of our items is going to sell for about the same say 10.00 . You are only going to make 5.00 I'm making 8.00. I only buy insurance when the buyers feedback is not the greatest or it is worth 200 or more . I am a power seller have been for years and have never had anything lost or broke in shipping . I heard somewhere that only 1% of packages get lost inside the u.s not for sure on that but it has never happened to me . Tracking is really all I need if it is inside the u.s and is not real valuable . That is just me.

2 things.... If USPS is like Canada post there's not really much point adding insurance on a lower priced item for a suspect buyer because you need him to participate in the claims process and if he ripped you off you know that ain't going to happen. A signature is what you want, insurance is pointless. And 2nd the post office loses way less than 1%. 1% would be an absolutely insane number going missing every day. I would say it's more like 1 or 2 in 500 and not necessarily from being lost... in the accidental sense.