Tungsten-Filled 10-Ounce Gold Bars Raise Questions

[jeff of pa]

By Patrick A. Heller
September 25, 2012
In my June 5 Numismaster column, I advised readers to dispose of their 10-ounce and larger gold bars and replace them with 1 ounce or smaller coins or bars. The reason for my recommendation was that the specter of possible tungsten-filled bars could make the larger bars illiquid and unsalable unless they were melted down.

In the past week there have been significant discoveries of tungsten-filled 10-ounce PAMP Suisse gold bars in dealer inventories in Manhattan. According to the most recent New York Post reports, at least 10 such bars have now been found.

Pictures of two of these tungsten-filled bars are posted online at ZeroHedge | On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

Upon viewing these pictures, I have several questions. First, the previously reported tungsten-filled gold bars had holes drilled in the side to remove roughly half the gold. Then tungsten plugs filled these holes and a pure gold plug sealed the bar.

One of the bars pictured shows that about 80 percent of the gold had been removed from the interior and that the tungsten filling appears to have a smooth surface. Absent additional information, this does not appear to be a simple drill and fill effort. Instead, I suspect one of two things occurred.

read more : Tungsten-Filled 10-Ounce Gold Bars Raise Questions

 

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[LuckyThirteen08]

WoW, Makes you think twice about how you invest in precious metals!

Thanks for sharing this!

HH John

 

[Jason in Enid]

Yep, don't have worry about that with my silver, YET.

 

[worldtalker]

Jeff,Who has 17 grand to plunk down? Buy small,preferably Silver,the poor mans Gold,no need to buy BIG,don't be greedy I always say! God Bless Chris

 

[jeff of pa]

Jeff,Who has 17 grand to plunk down? Buy small,preferably Silver,the poor mans Gold,no need to buy BIG,don't be greedy I always say! God Bless Chris

I agree if your going to Buy, Buy silver.
% wise you make more on siver anyway
I should have when it was $3.50 an OZ now I just dig it.

 

[Red James Cash]

I should have when it was $3.50 an OZ

Yup you should have,i bought quite a bit when it was 4.20 an ounce.

 

[Diver_Down]

Yep, don't have worry about that with my silver, YET.

Careful with this cavalier attitude. Not just you Jason, but everyone in general. Jim had previously posted about the fake Engelhard rounds going around. Unwary buyers, might scoop up a bunch and be left hanging trying to sell again. Engelhard is a well-known and respected brand and now they are on a suspect list. My one friend who runs an Estate Buying Store was caught by these fakes recently. He now will not buy these without a substantial discount from a seller. He won't take the risk.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=104525

 

[jeff of pa]

Yup you should have,i bought quite a bit when it was 4.20 an ounce.

what gets me, everyone who asked me what would be a good investment in the late 90's, I told
Buy Gold & silver coins, They were cheap at auctions.
you could get culled Silver dollars for $4.00 gold was around $300 an oz
because in 2001 we'll be in a new Century.
But I never followed my own advice I sold my gold as fast as I found it,
& my silver almost as fast.

I'm just glad I can't kick myself from behind physically

 

[Jason in Enid]

Careful with this cavalier attitude. Not just you Jason, but everyone in general. Jim had previously posted about the fake Engelhard rounds going around. Unwary buyers, might scoop up a bunch and be left hanging trying to sell again. Engelhard is a well-known and respected brand and now they are on a suspect list. My one friend who runs an Estate Buying Store was caught by these fakes recently. He now will not buy these without a substantial discount from a seller. He won't take the risk.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=104525

Damn, now I have to go weigh each of my rounds. See ya'll in about a month!

 

[Phanntom]

This seems to have actually started in a much bigger way. China took delivery of a bunch of tons of gold and sent samples to Japan to be assayed. It didn't go so well. The report was that the bars were actually tungston with about a 1/4 inch of gold "plating". Because all international gold settlement shipments are recorded and easily traceable, it was only hours before they were traced to a shipment from Ft. Knox. Further tracing from there showed they were actually cast back during the Clinton Admin and the guy responsible for it, when they went to question him seems to have disappeared into thin air. At least that's what they're saying. Fraud in the small investor market is one thing, but when it's on a scale dealing with sovereign wealth and international settlements it becomes something altogether.

About a year ago, I was listening to a commodities guy on I believe it was CNBC talking. He made a very telling statement. He said..."if you don't own gold, you don't OWN gold." and went on to say, that when you look at actual annual production figures, they come nowhere near the amount that's being traded...missing by hundreds of millions of ounces. He was basically saying, when you buy gold, take possession of it, that at some point, there are going to be a lot of disappointed and angry people that are holding certificates, or are allowing a seller to hold/store it for them. The story seems to have been kept very quiet now for years. Here's a link to the full story. Gold Bars in Fort Knox Are Fake!

 

[worldtalker]

Ask yourself,where did it go? God Bless Chris

 

[0121stockpicker]

This seems to have actually started in a much bigger way. China took delivery of a bunch of tons of gold and sent samples to Japan to be assayed. It didn't go so well. The report was that the bars were actually tungston with about a 1/4 inch of gold "plating". Because all international gold settlement shipments are recorded and easily traceable, it was only hours before they were traced to a shipment from Ft. Knox. Further tracing from there showed they were actually cast back during the Clinton Admin and the guy responsible for it, when they went to question him seems to have disappeared into thin air. At least that's what they're saying. Fraud in the small investor market is one thing, but when it's on a scale dealing with sovereign wealth and international settlements it becomes something altogether.

About a year ago, I was listening to a commodities guy on I believe it was CNBC talking. He made a very telling statement. He said..."if you don't own gold, you don't OWN gold." and went on to say, that when you look at actual annual production figures, they come nowhere near the amount that's being traded...missing by hundreds of millions of ounces. He was basically saying, when you buy gold, take possession of it, that at some point, there are going to be a lot of disappointed and angry people that are holding certificates, or are allowing a seller to hold/store it for them. The story seems to have been kept very quiet now for years. Here's a link to the full story. Gold Bars in Fort Knox Are Fake!

Fake gold being sold to unwitting buyers is a big problem. No gold or all fake gold in fort Knox is another conspiracy theory by the fringe. Has even been on some of the tv shows I believe. Above group of articles don't link together. Government gold at fort know is not run through the London or Nymex commodity trading boards. Gold is a global commodity so what is traded on any exchange is not all mined in the country. The us has not been a major gold producer for some time. Gold is lent out all the time, since gold earns no "interest" this is done by large long term gold owners to generate income from their investment - very very common. Many gold derivitives exist so one can trade gold without actually having to trade gold. This also happens with stocks, hogs and soybeans, etc, etc. Gold is not used by the US to settle trade or investment imbalances with anyone - that's why the Chinese have all our treasuries (which is just as scary). And at least for now we (and the rest of the world) is not on the gold standard so while the gold at ft Knox is interesting, it is fairly immaterial as a part of national wealth or economy. Many countries sold off their gold holdings years ago because it's just not part of the monetary system anymore - for now.

Let's focus on the real story which is mom and pop investors are getting scammed and ripped off by unscrupulous dealers and counterfitters. That's the only conspiracy here.