Tumlinson Profile

[gollum]

All,

I have read and reread that letter several times. I always come away with the same impression as Roy. That Travis had made a perfect copy of the two trail stones on a white cloth. Just my thoughts.

Mike

 

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[somehiker]

All,

I have read and reread that letter several times. I always come away with the same impression as Roy. That Travis had made a perfect copy of the two trail stones on a white cloth. Just my thoughts.

Mike

Mike/Roy:

Why would he,as Grace said in the letter,have needed the original stones to do so ?
Could he not have done so from a set of tracings,rubbings,or photos ?
Is there any other mention of a "cloth map"....anywhere,by anyone who knew Travis ?
Why would he do so,when a set of good photos in a cover,like I now carry with me,would have showed more detail ?

Regards:SH.

 

[Oroblanco]

Somehiker wrote

Roy:
The size of a cloth on which a set of replicas,made from stone had been placed for a photograph,would matter to someone trying to visualize the size of the replicas in the photo.Especially for someone who had questions regarding the dimensions of the original stones,or had claimed the stones as being "so heavy they would give two pack mules the heaves"...as McGee claimed in her article.

I would only point out that she made it clear that the wooden wall in the photo was a background, yet did not say this about the cloth. If it were stone replicas sitting on top of a cloth, why not mention that specifically? By your line of reasoning, the replicas could be made of stone, plaster, cement, wood, metal or any material, which she never bothered to specify, and did bother to mention the cloth they sat on in some detail, without saying that is just the background. I am sorry but I can't agree, have to agree with Mike on this one especially as a cloth replica has its own advantages. If you drop a cloth, it won't break, a stone might as we can see in the heart insert.

I had similar doubts about the sheer weight of the stone tablets being a problem, but the best info I have says they only weigh about 20 pounds each; this would not make any otherwise healthy mule or the smallest burro develop a case of the heaves. So perhaps weight was not such an issue? Which reminds me, want to do a bit of checking into getting some burros or mules ourselves.

What about that purty mule you have there Don Jose? I can promise her a good home, plenty of exercise, even the un-scented toilet paper. Surely you don't need her services any longer, since you found Tayopa and you know how to get there, she won't have to be picking a path through the barrancas for you right?

Sign me need-more-burros...



PS <new post appeared while I was typing>

Somehiker wrote

Mike/Roy:

Why would he,as Grace said in the letter,have needed the original stones to do so ?
Could he not have done so from a set of tracings,rubbings,or photos ?
Is there any other mention of a "cloth map"....anywhere,by anyone who knew Travis ?
Why would he do so,when a set of good photos in a cover,like I now carry with me,would have showed more detail ?

Not to answer for Mike, I am sure he can speak for his own views well but to address your points:

Why would he have needed the original stones to do so? - We are speculating here, but to make a "perfect" copy of a map it does help to have the original right?

Could he not have done so from a set of tracings, photos &c? Sure, but error can creep in.

Is there any other mention of a "cloth map"? I can not say for sure, but think I have seen it mentioned in another letter, which may be from the very same source.

Why would he do so <snip>? We are speculating again at the motives of a person whom is no longer with us and cannot answer; we do not even know if the replica was in copying from stone to cloth, or cloth to stone, and very probably will never know. One suggested answer is to transfer the maps onto a cloth which would be easier to pack than stones, and while you or I might choose to take a photo or a paper tracing, that may not have been his choice. We are guessing, regardless of which theory is put forth.

 

[Furness]

EE
my memory might be faulty on this, but from previous posts the description of the heart as red chalcedony was from an earlier description,
the later correction of it being yellow quartzite was from the people at the museum also that the other stones were grey sandstone, and that yellow quartzite is not found in that area of AZ but a lot further north the stones and heart stone being from two different areas,
i think Roy posted the museum’s report in an earlier post,

i agree that the colour in the carvings should be as dark as the rest of the surface of the heart stone if they had been carved at the same time as the heart was made,
to me this suggests that the heart was made a long time before the carvings were put on it, as from the photo’s , the edges of the heart are the same colour as the face, which would not be the case if they were carved when the heart was made, and it does take a long time for the surface to darken with oxidisation, assuming this is the original heart.

also as the carving on both the heart and the sandstones line up it makes me think they they were carved at the same time,
it’s possible the heart was in someone's possession a long time before the carving was done, and the stones made to fit the heart and not the other way round, and it is remarkable that the trail stone fits exactly on a fairly modern Topo map, the odds on that would be pretty far out if they were carved at a much earlier date,

the variations in colour on the heart stone surface look to be speltching, caused by rainwater freezing on the surface causing it to flake away, which is also something that normally takes a long time, whilst there is none on the other stones, which are according to the museum a soft sandstone,
these are just my thoughts on this,

John

 

[natchitoches]

i think the stone itself is a clue.
that the stone was takeing from the places that mark on them.
and that why all the stones look differn.that the colour of each stone will match up with the place you supose to be at , with each stone.
dose this make sence to anyone elss?
littlejohn

 

[EE THr]

natch---

The idea makes sense, but the small map in the upper left corner of the Horse Stone is generally thought to be a view covering the area of both Trail Maps, plus a little further to the East. I don't know what that could mean if the "rock fits the place" concept holds true.

Maybe the type of rock for the map(s) stands for the majority of rock type in the area dipicted by each of them?---in which case it could still hold true for the Horse Stone, and the rest. But I don't know what the majority rock types are for those areas, or anywhere else, to see if they match up.

 

[Hal Croves]

natchitoches,
I think that is a great observation. Unfortunately I don't know enough about geology to tell you if these types of stone (the stone charts) are available in the SWA. From what I have read the stones were sourced from Northern AZ, which if accurate tells me something about the group that may have carved them. But your logic is something to consider.

 

[somehiker]

i think the stone itself is a clue.
that the stone was takeing from the places that mark on them.
and that why all the stones look differn.that the colour of each stone will match up with the place you supose to be at , with each stone.
dose this make sence to anyone elss?
littlejohn

It's a great clue,having a stone type and colour match.
Not necessarily all,though.
It would only have to match one.
And that one in the right place,as shown on the relevant stone.
It's what I would have done.

Regards:SH.

 

[natchitoches]

I was thinking about the stone maps.
they road around in the truck of Tumlinson car far a wile.
they mite have gotten some motor oil on them at one point.
making them turn much darker.
just a ideal

 

[somehiker]

natch:
And possibly wrapped in an oily rag as well.
Or a cloth bag....maybe even in a cloth replica map.
Also being the smallest and lightest piece,it has likely been handled more than the others....put in the cavity and taken back out thousands of times.
Until relatively recently,with bare hands.Fifty years of skin oil to shine it up and darken it since it was found.

Regards:SH.

 

[cactusjumper]

Well.......It does have our fingerprints on it.

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

Well.......It does have our fingerprints on it.

AH HA! At last, we have a full confession and admission of guilt! We can now freely speculate that it was our friend Cactusjumper who really found the stone maps, and used them to extract a massive treasure, all of which has been kept quiet for nearly 53 years.

Assuming the prosecutor's chair, we ought now ask CJ a series of pointed questions, such as:

Do you deny that you have been at this for 53 years?
Do you deny that you, personally, worked out a solution to the stone maps?
Do you deny that you, personally, went into the Superstition mountains on a search for treasure?
Do you deny that you have handled the stone tablets, personally?
Do you deny that you have indeed STOPPED going into the Superstitions to hunt for treasure, which by itself suggests that you have already found and extracted treasure?

Combined with the answers to these questions, which we know the answers to already due to his frank confessions posted earlier, we can now conclude that Tumlinson was not the true finder, CJ was, he even admits that his own fingerprints may well be found on them, and the rest we can piece together from his earlier posts. I think we have now a convincing (if circumstantial) case, complete with partial confessions, so we may well state case closed!


I am kidding, to anyone whom did not pick up on it - just an example of how speculation and supposition can lead to rather erroneous conclusions. However it is possible that all of this speculation is true, and CJ is just keeping mum about his success.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, please do continue, I won't disrupt the discussion with more foolishness.
Oroblanco

 

[somehiker]

Well.......It does have our fingerprints on it.

Joe

Glad mine aren't.
Sides,I got an alibi......

"I touched you once too often
But you don't know who I am
My fingerprints were missing
Cause I wiped away the jam" .....Leonard Cohen and SH.

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

i think the stone itself is a clue.
that the stone was takeing from the places that mark on them.
and that why all the stones look differn.that the colour of each stone will match up with the place you supose to be at , with each stone.
dose this make sence to anyone elss?
littlejohn

(PICS) of sand stone slabs i have found in the Sups...wouldnt take long to smooth and whittle these into stone maps.
I didnt bring one out to compare to whats in the museum as i was on my way in.

 

[somehiker]

Tim:
Saw your add in a magazine that Frank gave me to read on the flight back home.Now I know what a trommel looks like.
Temps look to be about where you like getting out for a hike.Did you get out to where the skull was,and add it to your collection?
What do you think about the other "artifact" nearby ?

Regards:Wayne

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Wayne

Temps are perfect now, Hiker got lost out there the other day, was in over night and finally walked out the next morning to canyon lake, he walked 16 miles and all night without sleeping to ward off the hypothermia! so it certainly is chilly at night....least he kept his wits about him and didnt go to sleep.
Haven't gone back to that side of the mountains as of yet...but will snag the skull and poke around and check out the other thing....Gotta sharpen my big knife for that area

Tim

 

[somehiker]

Skin that one,pilgrim,and I'll bring ya another !!
Sharpen it up.....Wayne

 

[somehiker]

Tim:
I will E-Mail you a shot of it,and the location.
Still trying to figure out what that other wood and metal contraption by the trail was all about.
Though obviously some modern piece of junk......

Regards:Wayne

 

[Hal Croves]

Just a note to everyone on the site, Happy Thanksgiving!
Hal

 

[sgtfda]

Happy thanksgiving one and all!