Tumacacori Legends

[StevenMoseley]

Calling all THers,

This is my first official post in the Treasurenet forum and I'm excited to see how it plays off. I have only been in Arizona a little over a year an a half and many say that with that short of time if been here locating things that many in the past have tried their entire lives doing is ridiculous. That said i am the founder of Arizona Lost Treasures which in the year its been up it is the largest and still growing treasure hunt page on FB for the state of Arizona.

Enough about me let's get down to the heart of the post, the legends surrounding Tumacacori. Ive read every past thread regarding the subject but not very much has been uncovered or discussed in the recent years. Personally I believe there are not just 1 treasure cache in the hills to the west of the mission but rather multiple! The bigger picture isn't just jump on the internet and read, but get in the archives, get in with the old timers, get in the field. Let's be honest, the internet is monitored and everything that relates to this topic in the recent years have declined tremendously and i've even noticed things disappear quickly why is that? Could it be that there is truth to the legends and the government is trying to stake claim to the finds as they do to all finds? I don't know and not much of a conspiracy wormholer that loves to dig into it. Please when you read this and decide to respond, if you do, don't refer me to past posts or threads, as i said i have read them. This is a new thread to open up the minds and bring new light to the topic. Lets talk!

 

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[markmar]

Steven
You could be right about being more caches than the Virgin de Guadalupe mine treasure in the region of Tumacacori. But searching archives, speaking to the old timers treasure hunters and putting boots on the ground, is what all those before you did without finding the Tumacacori treasure or any of the mines depicted in the Molina map, except maybe the Santa Isabel mine which was declared as an early Spanish silver mine after the found.
The key to find a Jesuit or a Spanish treasure, is to know to " read " their maps or their spellings, when there exist maps or written clues. They used in their maps and spellings codes which very few on this planet are aware of their interpretation.
So IMHO, is better for you if you want to find something which belonged to Spanish or Jesuits, to dedicate your free time in this subject. It's a very difficult project without a mentor, but is what the better you have to do.

 

[StevenMoseley]

Steven
You could be right about being more caches than the Virgin de Guadalupe mine treasure in the region of Tumacacori. But searching archives, speaking to the old timers treasure hunters and putting boots on the ground, is what all those before you did without finding the Tumacacori treasure or any of the mines depicted in the Molina map, except maybe the Santa Isabel mine which was declared as an early Spanish silver mine after the found.
The key to find a Jesuit or a Spanish treasure, is to know to " read " their maps or their spellings, when there exist maps or written clues. They used in their maps and spellings codes which very few on this planet are aware of their interpretation.
So IMHO, is better for you if you want to find something which belonged to Spanish or Jesuits, to dedicate your free time in this subject. It's a very difficult project without a mentor, but is what the better you have to do.

I agree with your statements. But what if this “treasure” is older than Jesuits which I believe to be a big chance of. Think about it the “dates” in the Molina document do not line up with Jesuits but rather early Spanish conquistadors. What was something that happened back then, Montezumas fall was approximately 30 yrs prior. Meaning if the Aztecs were instructed to hide his treasures we could even be talking Aztec artifacts. That said I agree it’s an enormous stretch but looking at Aztecs art you see the Saguaro cactus appear meaning a possibility of them making way through this area. I know it’s a big dreamers dream but we can’t rule out anything.

 

[markmar]

I agree with your statements. But what if this “treasure” is older than Jesuits which I believe to be a big chance of. Think about it the “dates” in the Molina document do not line up with Jesuits but rather early Spanish conquistadors. What was something that happened back then, Montezumas fall was approximately 30 yrs prior. Meaning if the Aztecs were instructed to hide his treasures we could even be talking Aztec artifacts. That said I agree it’s an enormous stretch but looking at Aztecs art you see the Saguaro cactus appear meaning a possibility of them making way through this area. I know it’s a big dreamers dream but we can’t rule out anything.

For sure Aztecs went through Tumacacori region but IMHO they didn't hide their treasure there.
Conquistadors without the priests , even Dominicans or Franciscans, wouldn't make a step into the New World. So, they were acompliced to what happened at the beginning of the conquest, and only later about 15-20 years after Aztec's fall, they started to separate with the priests being the "good guys " in regards to find the sources of the Aztec precious metals. I believe they succeed in their plans with Marcos de Niza, who IMO was able to find the place of the Seven Cities ( caves ) of Gold or otherwise Cibola. He passed the info to the Spaniards and an expedition was set.
The expedition was declared as a failure by Coronado in finding the Cibola, but that was untrue. And the reasons the fact was kept secret is only in anyone's imagination to find the right answer. Fact is some trusted Spaniards worked the rich mines for several years and amassed a big amount of gold bars which were cached in the mines and caves of the surrounding region.
The big irony was the Spaniards while mining in Cibola, didn't know there was the Chicomoztoc, the birth place of Aztecs. But when they found out that the mountain they were mining was " the curved mountain " and became suspicious there could be hidden the Montezuma's treasure, they were slained to the last man. Maybe after their " character change " by pressing for info in regards to find the hidden spot of the Aztec treasure.
The Spanish gold remained there where the Spaniards have cached and still be there to this day. Only a part of gold bars were taken from a cache when a group of treasure hunters found it in the 1940's.
The Spaniards who worked the Cibola, made a map and guess, in that map is not marked the Aztec treasure cave but only the caches and the Chicomoztoc as a temple in which someone has to walk a circular staircase down in regards to get in.
What few in this world know, is the Jesuits found the Cibola with the help of the Natives, and also found the Aztec treasure with Montezuma's body buried inside. The Jesuits have had not time to do anything with the Aztec treasure because was the time before their expulsion and they were there in fact to hide their church treasure from the Spaniards. With the help of the Natives, hid their church treasure in three places, one mine and one cave where the early Spanish gold bars were cached, and in the Aztec treasure cave. At this day all the treasures still be there, on the Cibola's mountain.

 

[bc5391]

Steve, a couple of questions, are you retired, or are you a young man?
Have you been to the Tumacacori area or elsewhere in the AZ desert?
The reason I ask, it is very rugged country from Tubac South to the boarder and West through Arivaca, and east to Sierra Vista. And the terrain is only part of the problems you will encounter. Be sure to take more water than you think you will need and carry more than 1, 2nd ad. items. If you have never been there you have no clue, thanks to Joe the boarder patrol is hard to find.

 

[StevenMoseley]

Steve, a couple of questions, are you retired, or are you a young man?
Have you been to the Tumacacori area or elsewhere in the AZ desert?
The reason I ask, it is very rugged country from Tubac South to the boarder and West through Arivaca, and east to Sierra Vista. And the terrain is only part of the problems you will encounter. Be sure to take more water than you think you will need and carry more than 1, 2nd ad. items. If you have never been there you have no clue, thanks to Joe the boarder patrol is hard to find.

Absolutely I’ve been out multiple times, I even have my own theory on the location with my partners and we’re out there every weekend. We have water by the gallons stashed up there by our suspected location. I’ve been in contacts with many “big timers” down there and IMO I believe everyone is looking just a tad to far south.

 

[StevenMoseley]

For sure Aztecs went through Tumacacori region but IMHO they didn't hide their treasure there.
Conquistadors without the priests , even Dominicans or Franciscans, wouldn't make a step into the New World. So, they were acompliced to what happened at the beginning of the conquest, and only later about 15-20 years after Aztec's fall, they started to separate with the priests being the "good guys " in regards to find the sources of the Aztec precious metals. I believe they succeed in their plans with Marcos de Niza, who IMO was able to find the place of the Seven Cities ( caves ) of Gold or otherwise Cibola. He passed the info to the Spaniards and an expedition was set.
The expedition was declared as a failure by Coronado in finding the Cibola, but that was untrue. And the reasons the fact was kept secret is only in anyone's imagination to find the right answer. Fact is some trusted Spaniards worked the rich mines for several years and amassed a big amount of gold bars which were cached in the mines and caves of the surrounding region.
The big irony was the Spaniards while mining in Cibola, didn't know there was the Chicomoztoc, the birth place of Aztecs. But when they found out that the mountain they were mining was " the curved mountain " and became suspicious there could be hidden the Montezuma's treasure, they were slained to the last man. Maybe after their " character change " by pressing for info in regards to find the hidden spot of the Aztec treasure.
The Spanish gold remained there where the Spaniards have cached and still be there to this day. Only a part of gold bars were taken from a cache when a group of treasure hunters found it in the 1940's.
The Spaniards who worked the Cibola, made a map and guess, in that map is not marked the Aztec treasure cave but only the caches and the Chicomoztoc as a temple in which someone has to walk a circular staircase down in regards to get in.
What few in this world know, is the Jesuits found the Cibola with the help of the Natives, and also found the Aztec treasure with Montezuma's body buried inside. The Jesuits have had not time to do anything with the Aztec treasure because was the time before their expulsion and they were there in fact to hide their church treasure from the Spaniards. With the help of the Natives, hid their church treasure in three places, one mine and one cave where the early Spanish gold bars were cached, and in the Aztec treasure cave. At this day all the treasures still be there, on the Cibola's mountain.

I like your theories and thoughts it keeps things interesting! I believe that the Jesuits knew and discovered more than what people think.