Trump to Declare National Emergency Today

[Baribal]

America ain't just a place, it is a concept. The concept of America is that all people have equal inherent natural rights. When the governor of Michigan tells me I can't plant a garden on land I paid for and paid taxes for becuase watching seeds grow spreads human respritory illness she is overstepping her authority and exceeding the limits of reason.

....So the police don't lock people up in Germany? Now I've heard everything.

And that's what I don't understand. You've put this governor in place. So you basically only obey the law as long as it pleases you? So I could do whatever I want and when police comes I just tell them they are overstepping their authority by telling me to stop breaking the law? I mean I pay taxes, right?

And yes, police locks up people in Germany. It's their job to do so. I don't need to protect myself from police simply for the fact that it's quite reasonable what they do. They won't pull their gun if I don't physically attack them. They do their job and as long as I'm not behaving like a complete dick they won't do anything.They won't just shoot you.

 

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[Swaveab]

And that's what I don't understand. You've put this governor in place. So you basically only obey the law as long as it pleases you? So I could do whatever I want and when police comes I just tell them they are overstepping their authority by telling me to stop breaking the law? I mean I pay taxes, right?

And yes, police locks up people in Germany. It's their job to do so. I don't need to protect myself from police simply for the fact that it's quite reasonable what they do. They won't pull their gun if I don't physically attack them. They do their job and as long as I'm not behaving like a complete d*** they won't do anything.They won't just shoot you.

So because someone is elected or hired you say they can't or won't overstep their authority? No governor or police officer can deny you your constitutional rights no matter the emergency or job they are doing.

You are also duly reported for using a bad reference of a name. I've omitted the word enough that my post needs not deleted.

 

[jeff of pa]

So because someone is elected or hired you say they can't or won't overstep their authority? No governor or police officer can deny you your constitutional rights no matter the emergency or job they are doing.

You are also duly reported for using a bad reference of a name. I've omitted the word enough that my post needs not deleted.

Sorry ! I see no Name calling & the way he used the word "dick" does not violate rules or decency that I see.

I Do agree with your opinion though on Authority & Rights

Same as if someone commits a Mass murder & Isn't read their Rights, they go free.
the constitution here matters.

 

[Baribal]

So because someone is elected or hired you say they can't or won't overstep their authority? No governor or police officer can deny you your constitutional rights no matter the emergency or job they are doing.

You are also duly reported for using a bad reference of a name. I've omitted the word enough that my post needs not deleted.

Why would you even elect somebody if you knew in advance, that he or she is gonna overstep their authority? I do understand that you value your rights. On the other hand it might be subjective when you say person xy is overstepping their rights. That's why you don't follow their orders. Meanwhile many others might have a differnet opinion and say it's completely fine what they do.
Now back to the whole corona discussion:
As said I respect your rights. I just think it's a matter of human decency in this situation to stay at home even if you have the right to go out. Everybody suffers in this situation. Some suffer financially because they lose money or their job. Others suffer physically because of this disease (according to people who've been infected it feels like slowly drowning for several days while you're fully conscious). The whole world has to deal with this disease and everybody has to contribute to flattening the curve. In my eyes it is selfish to go out, party or even demonstrate to open businesses such as barbershops (gotta be lookin good in that coffin) while there are people outside risking their lives and also losing their lives in order to protect you. It is your right to do so but it won't change anything about the situation, the virus doesn't care about your rights. And even if you're completely healthy and the infection won't kill you, it'll still kill other people. It's the one thing to have a right but it is a mater of human decency to renounce those rights for a while in order to protect the weak. If they say wear a mask or stay at home, just do it. It won't hurt you. I simply don't understand the fuzz they make about it.
But that might just be my personal opinion on this whole topic.

 

[ARC]

I say... IF you have health issues... stay home... If not... then social distance and follow guidelines to maintain.

We should open back up and try a new approaches to curb this.

Quarantining is not the answer to a glorified flu.

This is not Ebola... this is a flu.

We have not even reached the number of regular flu infections and deaths.

Take precautions... make new guidelines... set up laws that protect the general public... and let it rip.

Nature will run its course... and medical facilities will run with it... and people should be exempt from paying ANY price for it.

IF you have a choice... you remain free.

When you do not... you are not.

 

[ARC]

Some suggestions... To pave a road for businesses that want to reopen... with the exceptions of some for obvious reasons.

1. Make it mandatory that a business have a form of hand sanitation at every entrance and that customers be required to use it upon entering.

2. Any individual in a shopping or shopping setting wear some form of face / mouth nose masking. (like no shirt no shoes no service - NO mask no service law)

3. Require store employees to wear masks and to wash / sanitize hands after each transaction.

Just these three items would be a start.

 

[chub]

Fortunately, there's no ones company I love more than my own! Been self isolating now for about 30 years I have never personally been offended by the police because *generally speaking I havent done anything *wrong....
Some people complain about the police violating their rights yet expect to be protected as soon as they call 911
Some , if not all laws are put in place to protect people against themselves....

chub

 

[Baribal]

I say... IF you have health issues... stay home... If not... then social distance and follow guidelines to maintain.

We should open back up and try a new approaches to curb this.

Quarantining is not the answer to a glorified flu.

This is not Ebola... this is a flu.

We have not even reached the number of regular flu infections and deaths.

Take precautions... make new guidelines... set up laws that protect the general public... and let it rip.

Nature will run its course... and medical facilities will run with it... and people should be exempt from paying ANY price for it.

IF you have a choice... you remain free.

When you do not... you are not.

What makes everybody think it is a flu?? This is a misconception. We already have medicines for the flu. So it probably won't kill you when you're infected. We DON'T have medicines for corona though.
In 1918-1920, when we didn't have medicines yet, a 'common flu' killed 27-50 million people. So what makes you believe corona isn't that bad?

Gotta be honest. When I hear people at home calling it a flu I just recommend them to get infected. Apparently nothing really can happen, cause come on, 'it's just a flu'. If you're lucky you might even win a nice price (Darwin award). So just go out, lick some door handles at the local hospital, get infected and keep telling people it's not as bad. (The last part was ironic. Don't actually do that)

 

[ARC]

What makes everybody think it is a flu?? This is a misconception. We already have medicines for the flu. So it probably won't kill you when you're infected. We DON'T have medicines for corona though.
In 1918-1920, when we didn't have medicines yet, a 'common flu' killed 27-50 million people. So what makes you believe corona isn't that bad?

Gotta be honest. When I hear people at home calling it a flu I just recommend them to get infected. Apparently nothing really can happen, cause come on, 'it's just a flu'. If you're lucky you might even win a nice price (Darwin award). So just go out, lick some door handles at the local hospital, get infected and keep telling people it's not as bad. (The last part was ironic. Don't actually do that)

Its very VERY similar to the flu... so similar that you cannot tell the symptoms apart.

And you are prolly NOT going to see any "vaccine" any time soon.

Don't believe the hype.

They have been STEADILY trying to come up with a vaccine for the common cold... to AIDS since the 80's... so don't hold your breath for any vaccine.

And even if they do come up with one... it will be well over a year away.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

The part about this “flu” that is bothering me is the reports of healthy people getting brain swelling, disorientation, blood clots, infected hearts, skin rashes..pulmonary embolisms, etc. the idea of getting a leg amputated due to the flu doesn’t seem in line with what we have seen in the past with the flu.

I was reading where blood thinners is becoming standard treatment for people hospitalized with corona virus.

EDIT: the heart attack/stroke/blood clots has always been associated with pneumonia.
5-6 times more likely to have a heart attack or stroke while having pneumonia and immediately after recovery. Maybe some of this is getting sensationalized?

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

This thread has to do with our US president declaring a national emergency due to corona virus.
Not a thread to bash Americans nor a history lesson on Germany. Please take those types of comments to the political forum.

 

[Baribal]

This thread has to do with our US president declaring a national emergency due to corona virus.
Not a thread to bash Americans nor a history lesson on Germany. Please take those types of comments to the political forum.

I'm not bashing Americans at all. It's a discussion about measures (is that the right word?) that are supposed to flatten the curve of the disease. I included a comparison to other countries and also said that said countries suffer equally. It's not political

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I deleted my response.
It’s up to the moderators how far off topic this thread will go.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

This thread has to do with our US president declaring a national emergency due to corona virus.
Not a thread to bash Americans nor a history lesson on Germany. Please take those types of comments to the political forum.

Please do as IMAUDIGGER suggested, move it to our politics forum, if not please end it here.

 

[Duckshot]

I'm not bashing Americans at all. It's a discussion about measures (is that the right word?) that are supposed to flatten the curve of the disease. I included a comparison to other countries and also said that said countries suffer equally. It's not political

Politics is the practice of applying force to control other people's behavior, which is what you seem to have suggested as a defensive measure. It's one thing to use persuasion, that's fine. But coercion is naturally wrong.

...and that's not politics, just a snapshot of the human condition.

 

[chub]

To come back on topic - I think it's an important thread (OK the chicken pages strayed a bit south ) I'm not quite clear on the re infection / anti body / a symptomatic side of this thing....meaning ....is heard immunity even a thing?? if people are not developing antibodies? I heard of re infection in China?

Without a full understanding of the above then perhaps everything should open but with a risk rating (or something similar) EG Risk at baseball game 8/10. With mask 6/10 (as an example) then people can make their own decisions, retain their freedom and rights and higher risk businesses have an opportunity to be innovative and lower their risk rating.

Freedom, rights, personal safety and economic well being are all important elements of a healthily functioning society.

chub

 

[releventchair]

Chub:
I'm not convinced immunity is assured after having this virus.
I'm not in the medical field,or chasing data on it either though.
And there have been rumors of relapse. Due to no guarantee that each infected person will develop antibodies.
It's virus specific as to if an antidote or a vaccine is effective across the board/spectrum of people. Along with unknown general effectiveness of an as of yet unproven vaccine.
But , there is hope , and so there is research being delved into...

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

We have had one or two active cases in a county with a population of 40,000

It's now time to crap or get off the pot.

I'm sending a letter out today to our supervisors suggesting we move ahead to opening back up irrespective of the governor's orders. I suspect they will resist biting the hand that feeds them..meaning they are expecting $$ associated with the disaster declaration.

 

[dokc]

One again - the homemade non P95 masks don't stop you from catching the virus BUT it does keep down the amount of spit that flys out of your mouth. The larger drops have a higher viral load and stay wet longer which means higher chance to touch those droplets and infect yourself. The smaller droplets linger in the air longer and farther but dry faster with a smaller viral load. I don't care if you wear a mask or not AS LONG as you stay out of public spaces but when you don't respect my right to live why would I respect your right to wonder around unmasked in public? The governor of Michigan didn't stop the closing of all the flower/paint shops just the ones in the big retail stores because people were just wondering around the store because they were bored. The small shops were still open and by being small businesses they could use your help! These temporary rules were put in place because there weren't enough PPE to protect the first responders and medical staff so that they could stay safe and not die! What do you not get about that? If these measures were not taken there would be tens of thousands of more deaths with many of those being the medical staff and then where would we be? When a vaccine is developed who would be around to administer them if they are all dead or too sick to work? If you can't think of someone else's health for just a year what kind of person are you?

 

[Duckshot]

If these measures were not taken there would be tens of thousands of more deaths

Is that a fact?

Prove is so if it is. I don't think you have any empirical evidence.