Trespassing with permission?

[kayakpat]

Wheeling down the creek looks like nice out of the way area, not much left that they allow you to 4 wheel on, lot of places have been barracaded. Enjoy it, I loved all the trails and dirt roads when I use to dirt bike ride them.

 

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[Nugs Bunny]

Nugs. I agree. No one in authority is going to try to say that walking on the grass (even with cleats !) "damages" or "moves" the grass. Agreed. However, I also maintain that ... IN THE SAME WAY: Nor does m'ding constitute a violation of those codes, "within the context of law".

I consider retrieving during the course of detecting, to be equally as innocuous and harmless as walking on the grass. So I guess, in a way, we agree

So when you cut a plug there is no injury to the root system?

When you remove the plug you are not moving the grass roots and all?

Ohhh and let's not forget humus.... You honestly believe one can recover a buried target without disturbing humus? That minor yet important detail is continually overlooked.

No dig policies are meant to keep people from digging, that doesn't mean it's ok if one digs carefully. We dig holes no way around that one, most of us fill them back in nicely and no visible damage is done.

Yet the fact remains the same... digging where there is a no dig policy is a violation of said policy. Yet you contend it doesn't because no visible damage exists

Let's apply that reasoning to other legal codes to see how flawed and silly this train of thought actually is.

Murder: If one kills another but leaves no trace of the crime... have they still committed murder?

Burglary: If one illegally enters a residence without visible signs of forcible entry... have they still committed burglary?

A no dig policy is just that... there are no exceptions for neatness... if one exists it may or may not be enforced.

Now lets say one gets caught DURING a recovery... an open hole, a pile of dirt and a DIGGING tool in hand. Could that be perceived as digging?

Just metal detect anywhere without respect or regards to the law or property UNTILL one gets told otherwise... that opinion and attitude is what gives metal detectorists a bad name.

In Ohio it's as easy as this... don't go where you don't belong and you won't have any problems detecting.

If there is a no dig policy... stay out unless you have gotten permission... as we can see from the OP's situation that won't always keep one from getting the boot.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Nugs. I agree. No one in authority is going to try to say that walking on the grass (even with cleats !) "damages" or "moves" the grass. Agreed. However, I also maintain that ... IN THE SAME WAY: Nor does m'ding constitute a violation of those codes, "within the context of law".

I consider retrieving during the course of detecting, to be equally as innocuous and harmless as walking on the grass. So I guess, in a way, we agree

I have seen lots of dead grass plugs in parks from people digging plugs. I'm a hunter myself, I hunt parks sometimes, I just don't dig any plugs, if your digging plugs your doing more damage than just walking on grass...

Posted From My $50 Tablet....

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Looting Public Property

City to Metal-Detecting Sleuths: Be Patient ? Or Be Arrested | Rochester-Rochester Hills, MI Patch

City to Metal-Detecting Sleuths: Be Patient — Or Be Arrested

If you try to rummage about on downtown Rochester construction site, you are trespassing.

Metal detectors at midnight — or any time of day — will not be tolerated.

That's the message Rochester officials want you to hear amid downtown's Main Street Makeover.
City Manager Jaymes Vettraino acknowledged this week that there have been a few instances of curious onlookers with metal detectors in tow scavenging Main Street, presumably in search of some historical treasures.

While city leaders have made no secret that those treasures probably are buried underneath the road, they are also adamant that those relics aren't yours to find and keep.
"Not only is it an issue of safety, but it's also essentially the looting of public property," said Vettraino.

The road is managed by the state of Michigan, so any items discovered underneath it are property of the state.

Those items will, however, be turned over to the city, which will preserve and catalogue them.

So be patient, Rochester. And leave the detecting to the experts.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

So when you cut a plug there is no injury to the root system?--Nugs Bunny

Did you ever see them run that machine on a ball field that puts thousands of holes in the field.

"You want to see cores of dirt left all over your field. Younger players who've never seen this before think cats went poop on their field. I bet you can get a few good laughs by pretending to go along with them."

They run those on golf courses too, but lets be realistic those are a series of uniform 3/8 inch holes to aerate compacted soil. Your random plugs are not even in the same... ballpark! Can't you dig that? <--- That's pun in the son!

 

[Nugs Bunny]

You seem anti-detecting.

No I'm just anti trespassing, law abiding and allergic to BS.

Here is my anti detector and some finds... http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting/443822-my-machine-some-finds.html

And here is the Detech SEF coil I just bought for my anti detector and the results after using it... http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting/446348-detech-sef-butterfly-coil.html

Makes me wonder if they saw a lot of anti-detecting stuff on the web as well as other places.

And what does the anti detecting crowd use against us? Here is a reminder.......

Regional Archeology Program - Metal Detecting;

Indeed, some relic hunters argue on blogs, "They've had 100+ years to recover Civil War relics. If they haven't dug them up by now then they're fair game."

 

[Tom_in_CA]

City to Metal-Detecting Sleuths: Be Patient ? Or Be Arrested | Rochester-Rochester Hills, MI Patch.....

Nugs, that link circulated much on various forums, several years ago when it first came out.

I have NO DOUBT that you can find ones like that, plus others, of city officials "perturbed" and the audacity of those who would think they can detect sidewalk tearouts. Heck, if I look long and hard, I can likewise find links where some city assails those "thieves" that had the audacity to hit the park sandbox too (shame on them).

My response to such a story is .... so what ? As much as you and I would love all city officials to "welcome us with open arms" to slip past the yellow ticker tape into sidewalk tearouts ........ it aint gonna happen. The only thing that a link like that reinforces to me is: "Avoid killjoys like that." It does not make me conclude: "Therefore I need permission for sites like that".

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Tom...


That was posted in their paper so nobody had to search "long and hard" to find it... They decided to warn folks ahead of time.


I provided that as an example of public property that is off limits. Who says you cannot detect curb strips and along streets... well on occasion the City will!

Same goes for parks... they may be public and open to certain activities but off limits to detecting... just because it's not posted on site doesn't mean it's not off limits.

Nobody said search the Nation until one finds somebody to so no... you and a few others have been warping my opinion way beyond the intent.

One needs to check the laws in their area along with the park regulation for each specific park... somehow this has turned into lobbying the White House looking for an objection.

Just be a man and say you don't care... but don't try to justify it by warping other's opinions or ignoring the laws.

Murder is not against park regulations and neither is mugging, you will find it nowhere in writing, it will not be posted on site either. But ask the Park Manager and I'm sure he will confirm it's disallowed.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Murder is not against park regulations and neither is mugging, you will find it nowhere in writing, it will not be posted on site either. But ask the Park Manager and I'm sure he will confirm it's disallowed. -Nugs Bunny

So if a person were wanting to murder or mug (although it does not clearly say you can not in the code) they should ask first and would be told no,thus problem solved. If a person were wanting to breathe (although it does not clearly say you can not in the code) in the park and they could ask first they would probably be told yes. If a person would want to metal detect in the park (although it does not clearly say you can not in the code) a person should treat it as murder and mugging and go ask. Now I see where Nugs is coming from.

Well thankfully murder is probably just another SERIOUS MISDEMEANOR to you.

I see where you're coming from as well... all the preaching about how one should not ask permission... even going as far to call those that do sissies...

But wait what's this... Kemper posted he asks permission to hunt parks....

As a metal detectorist I search parks and private property with permission looking for coins and stuff and really enjoy the hobby...
Can't wait to tell my friends

Funny how you post on one forum, that you ask permission... yet on this one, you advise that nobody should ask permission at those very same places.

 

[DiggerGal]

I think this has gone to an extreme.....
Where I live, the County does not have a requirement for a permit to MD. However, if it is posted that MD'ing is not allowed, we must follow that rule. On the other hand, public areas, parks, BLM, and Non historic sites are ok. In the same breath, and often confusing, is the verbiage used in the Regulations of the National Forests about MDing. Simply stated it is allowed, followed by the usual; not to disturb, disrupt, dig etc the natural habitat. Followed by a statement of "the use of Metal Detecting to find coins", in which it states that most coins are found in relative depth of 4-6", which in this case is allowed.
The rules are so contradictory that it makes it difficult to understand or make sense of anything without a JD.
Then we go even further to "ask" permission (on something that is already stated that it is ok) from someone who chances are does not know the first thing about the hobby and will not give permission out of fear.
I detect openly and honestly. I take great pride in retrieval. If I can retrieve without cutting a plug, I will do so. If I need to cut, I use a drop cloth for the bottom dirt, retrieve the object, and replace the plug and you can't tell that I was there.
You can use all kinds of examples of "Turf" abuse that you want...golfers, aerators, Quads, Cleats, Spikes, Bikes etc. the bottom line, take pride in what you do, and respect the property you are on.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Good job of showing how your assumptions do not match what I actually said. You're starting to get it.

Considering it's a direct quote of your exact words... I really don't need to assume anything at all!

It right there in black and white... straight from the horses mouth... or possibly the other end of the horse!