Treasure hunting the National Seashores

[Treasure_Hunter]

That's the rub.....it doesn't say specifically NO DETECTING but those in charge could interpret other areas in the code that could effectively do so. You know, the "you can detect but you can't dig, disturb, alter, etc" nonsense that applies to virtually every park in the U.S.

I go off the law on the books as written..

 

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[el padron]

No problem with any of our SoCal beaches that I'm aware of.....be it State or local. I don't know of any Federal ones. That's always been a question of mine.......how can you possibly hurt anything on a sandy beach?

The Federal Beach is unnamed and just north of IB (Imperial Beach) It is well patrolled for about a 1/2 mile in each direction of the "Elephant cage" that houses the Submarine Command center and transmitting towers. (Naval Base Nuclear Submarine Command Post).

There is no where to park for miles

 

[ARC]

Don't be mislead by Tom, ALL National Seashores and National Parks are off limits and they do care....

Agreed.

If you step foot onto a National Beach with a metal detector in your hand...
It will probably be moments before a cop or ranger is on top of you.

Made that mistake on Egmont Key... many moons ago.

 

[el padron]

Agreed.

If you step foot onto a National Beach with a metal detector in your hand...
It will probably be moments before a cop or ranger is on top of you.

Made that mistake on Egmont Key... many moons ago.

Well, It often costs $20 to park on our state beaches, The yearly passes are $75 or more (Orange County), There are curfews and many many different ordinances posted everywhere. If you are a model citizen, your driver license says "California" across the top and you carry yourself well you will undoubtedly be OK.

 

[ARC]

TH... you know what the weirdest part was...
It was a friggin mistake on my part...
I ASSUMED it was PART of a State park nearby that I DO have permits to hunt in.
As soon as I stepped off the boat ( I was last one off) ... from above old fort I see a 4 wheeler screaming down the side dunes...
Flying at us full frigging speed he slammed on brakes and came skidding sideways at us... ARMED...
He has this SEERIOOUUUSS pissed look on his face ... And says "what in the F=== do you think you are doing" ?
He is yelling " I WILL ARREST YOUR A-SSSES IF YOU EVEN BLINK BACK AT ME WRONG" !!
He then says GET BACK ON YOUR BOAT... LEAVE THIS BEACH WITH THOSE NOW"! ... "you can do that in the water"... "but not on the sand".
I was like "o.k" np... in child like voice heh
But was thinking yeah yeah... you must metal detect in your spare time... lol

Well there we sat on the boat for a few and kinda shrugged it off... beings at least 20 people witnessed it was a little embarrassing ...
I was like "did he just say it was ok to do that in the water here but not on the beach"...
My girl was like NO ! your not going to... lets just go.
I was gonna do it... but there they were up on that dune... just watching.
It felt awkward... so I fired up the boat and split...
Was 3 of us with MD's... heh the third person SAID it was part of State...
HE is now EX MD partner.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Florida has Canaveral and Gulf Islands National Seashores as well as Loxahatchee and Wekiva National Rivers - off limits to detectors by law.

California has Point Reyes National Seashore as well as 17 National Rivers - off limits to detectors by law.

There are 14 National Seashores total.

Also off limits to detectors are the National Parks - 59 total.

The prohibition is on metal detectors (the machine). If you can detect without a machine have at it. Of course you still can't dig any "targets" by law but what the heck - imaginary detecting is pretty much the same as imaginary digging.

 

[el padron]

TH... you know what the weirdest part was...
It was a friggin mistake on my part...
I ASSUMED it was PART of a State park nearby that I DO have permits to hunt in.
As soon as I stepped off the boat ( I was last one off) ... from above old fort I see a 4 wheeler screaming down the side dunes...
Flying at us full frigging speed he slammed on brakes and came skidding sideways at us... ARMED...
He has this SEERIOOUUUSS pissed look on his face ... And says "what in the F=== do you think you are doing" ?
He is yelling " I WILL ARREST YOUR A-SSSES IF YOU EVEN BLINK BACK AT ME WRONG" !!
He then says GET BACK ON YOUR BOAT... LEAVE THIS BEACH WITH THOSE NOW"! ... "you can do that in the water"... "but not on the sand".
I was like "o.k" np... in child like voice heh
But was thinking yeah yeah... you must metal detect in your spare time... lol

Well there we sat on the boat for a few and kinda shrugged it off... beings at least 20 people witnessed it was a little embarrassing ...
I was like "did he just say it was ok to do that in the water here but not on the beach"...
My girl was like NO ! your not going to... lets just go.
I was gonna do it... but there they were up on that dune... just watching.
It felt awkward... so I fired up the boat and split...
Was 3 of us with MD's... heh the third person SAID it was part of State...
HE is now EX MD partner.

That is pretty rediculous.
Law enforcement works at the service of the law abiding citizen public.
Dont ever let a Policeman or Ranger speak to you like that.
EVER.
Generally Amercan law-enforcement is warned not to degrade their subjects until they are Under apprehension.
If they do, they usually end up sweeping floors for a while at reduced pay. If thier commanders allow it they don't hold thier positions for long.

Just call their commanding officer, insist on filing a written citizens complaint, and periodically check back to insist that the complaint is acknowledged reviewed and noted.

 

[ARC]

Law enforecement works at the service of the law abiding citizen public.
Dont ever let a Policeman or Ranger speak to you like that.
EVER.
Generally Amercan law-enforcement is warned not to degrade their subjects until they are Under apprehension.
If they do, they usually end up sweeping floors for a while at reduced pay. If thier commanders allow it they don't hold thier positions for long.

Just call their commanding officer, insist on fileing a written citizens complaint, and insist that the complaint is acknowledged reviewed and noted.

Welp technically I was glad with the "bad warning"... beings by even being on that sand with an MD in my hand I had probably broken the law...
WHICH is grounds to confiscate equipment... arrest us... etc... who knows what he COULD have done...
At the end of the day... I was glad to be yelled at.
This was many many years ago.

 

[el padron]

Well, It often costs $20 to park on our state beaches, The yearly passes are $75 or more (Orange County), There are curfews and many many different ordinances posted everywhere. If you are a model citizen, your driver license says "California" across the top and you carry yourself well you will undoubtedly be OK.

Over four years and dozens of visits to California State Beaches, all at the same exact location and on different occasions, different agencies of law enforcement have asked me to leave (twice), watched and ignored me (dozens of times), and also have told me that metal detecting is perfectly acceptable, (twice)
I've never received a written warning.

Just curious, In the history of treasurenet has anyone here ever actually received a citation calling for a fine resulting from metal detecting a California State Beach? Where? How Much was the fine?
If so, in final disposition, was it considered an infraction? Worse?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Keep politics out of forums. The posts on so called rogue police is considered politics, if you want to discuss it it is done in politics forum...

 

[slink]

My apology TH,I know the rules just couldnt hold it back.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Over four years and dozens of visits to California State Beaches, all at the same exact location and on different occasions, different agencies of law enforcement have asked me to leave (twice), watched and ignored me (dozens of times), and also have told me that metal detecting is perfectly acceptable, (twice)
I've never received a written warning.

Just curious, In the history of treasurenet has anyone here ever actually received a citation calling for a fine resulting from metal detecting a California State Beach? Where? How Much was the fine?
If so, in final disposition, was it considered an infraction? Worse?

Well, This post started off as a Q about federal. But ...... since you're asking, I suppose it's ok to answer (?):

I have never heard of anyone getting a "ticket" or "fine" for detecting a state of Calif. SALTWATER beach. I have heard of one for one of their freshwater beaches (but that was a rogue exception, because there was something historic revealed during a drought, blah blah). *Technically speaking*, there is nothing to prohibit whatever-it-was that was used to ticket that one individual, from also being used to ticket someone on a salt-water beach. It's the exact same agency that is in charge of each one (the CA states park's dept). So there's no technicaly reason why their rules are any different on the ocean, versus lake beaches. But ... in actual practice, it's never worked out that way.

I've heard of a few "scrams" by over-zealous bored personel (like the one in #16 above). But.... not any tickets or anything. So for all practical purposes, you need-not-worry. I have waltzed around in front of hundreds of them who pass you by, and they pay you no mind.

Best yet: After the incident in #16, one of the forum members, who knew a local state beach sector supervisor, got something in writing from him saying it was ok, not illegal, etc.... But it was phrased in a sort of "don't make waves" or "so long as you're not running afoul of something else" type wording. So .... I suppose someone could look at that, and say it's not authoritative enough.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

The prohibition is on metal detectors (the machine). If you can detect without a machine have at it. Of course you still can't dig any "targets" by law but what the heck - imaginary detecting is pretty much the same as imaginary digging.

Sounds like a new take on the ol' invisible dog gag!

Just the arm cuff shaft and headphones, maybe plug the phones into an apple and make beeping noises to sell it a little... now all we need is a volunteer!

 

[el padron]

Well, This post started off as a Q about federal. But ...... since you're asking, I suppose it's ok to answer (?):

I have never heard of anyone getting a "ticket" or "fine" for detecting a state of Calif. SALTWATER beach. I have heard of one for one of their freshwater beaches (but that was a rogue exception, because there was something historic revealed during a drought, blah blah). *Technically speaking*, there is nothing to prohibit whatever-it-was that was used to ticket that one individual, from also being used to ticket someone on a salt-water beach. It's the exact same agency that is in charge of each one (the CA states park's dept). So there's no technicaly reason why their rules are any different on the ocean, versus lake beaches. But ... in actual practice, it's never worked out that way.

I've heard of a few "scrams" by over-zealous bored personel (like the one in #16 above). But.... not any tickets or anything. So for all practical purposes, you need-not-worry. I have waltzed around in front of hundreds of them who pass you by, and they pay you no mind.

Best yet: After the incident in #16, one of the forum members, who knew a local state beach sector supervisor, got something in writing from him saying it was ok, not illegal, etc.... But it was phrased in a sort of "don't make waves" or "so long as you're not running afoul of something else" type wording. So .... I suppose someone could look at that, and say it's not authoritative enough.

Thats what I thought, lets see if anyone else responds.
I think I saw a sign, "No metal detecting," ONCE, somewhere, on some state or possibly federal beach...... I don't recall where.
Ive seen hundreds of other signs describing other bans or curfews.
Generally ignorance of the law is not an excuse against punishment, but how can the general public be expected to know if its not generally posted?
Law school?

 

[Nugs Bunny]

They cannot legally charge one for violating laws and ordinances that are not posted or not in the municipal codes. While ignorance of the law is no excuse, obscurity is.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

They cannot legally charge one for violating laws and ordinances that are not posted or not in the municipal codes. While ignorance of the law is no excuse, obscurity is.

Bunny Nugs: I'll take your statement a step further: If a law is not posted on a sign, and not "reasonably expected" to be known, then you would first be warned first. So for example: There need not be a sign forbidding nudity, or murder, stealing, etc.... Those are reasonable to assume that everyone would know. Because there is simply NO place where murder, stealing and public nuidity ARE allowed. However, metal detecting is not in the same camp. It is not a "given" that it's illegal, at all times, everywhere. So while it's commendable for md'rs to "go down to city hall and check the books", yet I believe you'd get a warning first, for some place where you're not reasonably expected to-have-known. And by "reasonable", I'm dis-cluding "obvious historic sensitive monument" type places.

 

[cudamark]

The Federal Beach is unnamed and just north of IB (Imperial Beach) It is well patrolled for about a 1/2 mile in each direction of the "Elephant cage" that houses the Submarine Command center and transmitting towers. (Naval Base Nuclear Submarine Command Post).

There is no where to park for miles

I'm not so sure the beach area there is part of the "elephant cage". The base section is fenced off but it doesn't extend out beyond the dunes. I've hunted that area many times without incident but have heard that others have gotten the "scram" when encountered. I know that section of beach has small fenced off nesting areas to protect the snowy plover bird habitat. Maybe they're worried about that.

 

[WHATCHALOOKINFOR]

ALL NATIONAL SEASHORE BEACHES AND PARKS ARE CLOSED TO METAL DETECTING. I KNOW BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO LEAVE GULF ISLANDS YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST STARTED DETECTING.. AND I HAVE NEVER MET A FEDERAL PARK EMPLOYEE WHO DID NOT KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING....

 

[frankie]

In mass all national seashore is off limits. But its funny. In the summers if I pay to get on town beaches in the national seashore area. They let me detect on these beaches. I asked people in charge of the beach. So you can check your area. Maybe theirs a loop hole their. Maybe its up to the town that runs that beach. But as a rule. You can't go on seashore land. The ocean is different.

 

[BigWaveDave]

ALL NATIONAL SEASHORE BEACHES AND PARKS ARE CLOSED TO METAL DETECTING. I KNOW BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO LEAVE GULF ISLANDS YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST STARTED DETECTING.. AND I HAVE NEVER MET A FEDERAL PARK EMPLOYEE WHO DID NOT KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING....

I just like your screen name....