✅ SOLVED Tools or Rocks??

[rockheadhunter421]

Here's some pieces of rhyolite I found. They look like they were used as simple tools for a survival situation. Are these tools or just rocks?

 

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[GatorBoy]

 

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[NC field hunter]

I'm not saying all of the pieces pictured here are tools. I do see one piece with edge work and one piece with an unusually smooth face. I agree with Gator. The ones with no edge work are impossible to call tools. On the other hand, we can see that these pieces were obviously taken from a larger stone. Debitage is what I call this type of find. http://archaeology.about.com/od/dterms/g/debitage.htm

To call debitage nothing more than rocks is absurd. Debitage is important when studying ancient life.

 

[GatorBoy]

True debitage is an artifact but every time I went artifact hunting and did nothing but flake out I considered it a bust wouldn't you?.. Unless it was a new spot and those pieces told me I was in the right area other than that they're not going in a frame or anything

 

[rockheadhunter421]

Yea these are not worth putting in a frame but they're definitely cool IMO. People around here that don't know lithic materials that good calls rhyolite, flint. I'm like no that's a high grade rhyolite. It chips like flint though. However, these materials pictured here are not the high quality rhyolite so the properties are slightly different. That's when my "rigging theory" comes in. That speckled rhyolite doesn't always make pretty arrowheads. I have a perfect- tipped Stanley type but when you look at it for nice edge work, it doesn't have much at all. Not all rhyolite has a pretty lithic; it was used simply for survival.

 

[NC field hunter]

True debitage is an artifact but every time I went artifact hunting and did nothing but flake out I considered it a bust wouldn't you?.. Unless it was a new spot and those pieces told me I was in the right area other than that they're not going in a frame or anything

Exactly. When looking new hunting spots debitage is important. I find lots of complete points that don't get framed. I certainly don't frame debitage or crude tools. However, I do like being able to identify rough tools. One reply in this thread suggest that the original poster has rocks, nothing more. It would be a shame for one to abandon the grounds in which these came from due to misinformation.

 

[catherine1]

Those look mostly like preforms/flint. Might want to get a shovel out and look below those finds.

 

[rockheadhunter421]

That last statement is absolute proof to me that you're very new to this.. I guarantee you you will come away with more experience and knowledge if you spend a little bit more time paying attention to other people and what they say rather than typing such long responses that basically just go against the opinion you asked for.. You found some flakes be happy about it it's evident that you will probably find actual complete artifacts there like projectile points and tools all you have there are reduction flakes

I may be young and witty but I've been hunting the surface for at least 20 years (not consistently but overall that is the amount of time I have put into my collection). I have many, many miles behind me and in front of me yet. Trust me, I would feel honored to hunt with you. You sound like the man with the plan. I hunt artifacts with people in the Piedmont Archaeological Society of NC and they speak to me with southern comfort. Stick a stick in there and stir, is that what you like to do? I actually think you're jealous of my long responses. You know, what the heck else would I be doing to find tools like this? Ding-a-ling! I'm searching for that sweet spot and when I get it, I will send you a picture. I'm getting better each time I go and learning more about how to identify sites. I have been able to hunt every Friday for the past couple of months now. I am really confident about this week. Get your glove ready b/c I'm about to hit one outta this park. Lol!

 

[rockheadhunter421]

Exactly. When looking new hunting spots debitage is important. I find lots of complete points that don't get framed. I certainly don't frame debitage or crude tools. However, I do like being able to identify rough tools. One reply in this thread suggest that the original poster has rocks, nothing more. It would be a shame for one to abandon the grounds in which these came from due to misinformation.

I like seeing the rough tools also. It's a very good clue that evidence does exist. You better believe I won't just abandon a potential site. I can find all types of evidence but I'm not bringing it all home. I like leaving a piece of evidence on the ground for whoever the next surface hunter might be. It's just that I can't find that whole point evidence all the time. That's why I like this hobby. You go back and look for more.

 

[GatorBoy]

Wow..haha.. I'm a pot stirrer ding-a-ling that's jealous of you... That's hilarious.
... Strange....

 

[GroundS.KeepeR]

all the material produced during the process of lithic reduction and the production of chipped stone tools. This assemblage includes, but is not limited to, different kinds of lithic flakes and lithic blades, shatter and production debris, and production rejects.

 

[mainejman]

I usually bring all questionable pieces home clean them up and look for the tell tale signs of pressure flaking that usually occurs when making a usable tool.I realize that this may not always be the case.But this cuts out all the speculation....mjm

 

[Charl]

Yea these are not worth putting in a frame but they're definitely cool IMO. People around here that don't know lithic materials that good calls rhyolite, flint. I'm like no that's a high grade rhyolite. It chips like flint though. However, these materials pictured here are not the high quality rhyolite so the properties are slightly different. That's when my "rigging theory" comes in. That speckled rhyolite doesn't always make pretty arrowheads. I have a perfect- tipped Stanley type but when you look at it for nice edge work, it doesn't have much at all. Not all rhyolite has a pretty lithic; it was used simply for survival.

But the above is all beside the point because the material is debitage. High grade material or low grade material, it's still debitage. There isn't much that can be done to transform what the photographs show into something that the photographs do not show. Someone can call an apple an orange if they want, but it will still be an apple to most people.
Also, the eBay reference was actually meaningless because the seller did not have a clue, so to answer your question, yes, many, many people on eBay imagine things. Very common to see ordinary rocks being sold as artifacts on eBay as far as that goes. eBay is no point of reference!

 

[Road Dog]

Looks like you are on the trail of a site there Rock. If I find stuff like you found in my area (Johnston Co , NC) it is a site. I keep all my debitage. I have probably 20 - 30 pounds boxed up of just smaller chips. I like to get a full picture of all the materials being utilized on a particular site.

 

[mainejman]

Its all about choices .If I kept all the debitage off of just my one site alone I could fill a pickup truck.If I come across new material I keep it but that rarely happens...mjm

 

[Road Dog]

I think a reduction site would be impossible keep it all. For years I've been hunting a Residential Base Camp Site which makes the debitage in my case abit less.

 

[NC field hunter]

I think a reduction site would be impossible keep it all. For years I've been hunting a Residential Base Camp Site which makes the debitage in my case abit less.

I know where an old quarry site is. Man Alive.... You could not find enough trucks to haul the debitage out of there. It's truly amazing to look over that site. I'm sure many generations spent hours banging on rocks there.

 

[rock]

I look for debitage when hunting. If you find it then you are in the rite area and there is a good chance you might find a whole something there. It also tells me which color to look for while I am walking.

 

[wetfly]

Just asking out of curiosity here no jealousy intended, why would one want to carry home a bunch of debitage? I understand it's importance as a possible hint that your on the right trail or in the right place , but isn't that like going bear hunting and taking the scat you find back home?Not trying to be an ass here ,just curious if I've been leaving it behind when I should of maybee been gathering them up?? After plenty of days hauling things home that ,once washed and thoroughly inspected ended up being beautiful "geofacts" I tend to scrutinize what comes back a little more carefully these days.-- Is it one of those beauty in the eye of the beholder things?

 

[yakker]

Just asking out of curiosity here no jealousy intended, why would one want to carry home a bunch of debitage? I understand it's importance as a possible hint that your on the right trail or in the right place , but isn't that like going bear hunting and taking the scat you find back home?Not trying to be an ass here ,just curious if I've been leaving it behind when I should of maybee been gathering them up?? After plenty of days hauling things home that ,once washed and thoroughly inspected ended up being beautiful "geofacts" I tend to scrutinize what comes back a little more carefully these days.-- Is it one of those beauty in the eye of the beholder things?

It's been said on this site before, but it bears repeating, I think-- and it's a rule I follow, now that the giddy early years of hunting are over. Unless you're an archaeologist, documenting everything you find at every level, and have it all mapped out, gridded, etc., it's not really a good thing to strip the site of debitage. It leaves less for those folks- down the road many years, your grand-kids, for instance. Now-a-days, I'll pick an interesting flake or chunk up, look at it- and put it right back down. Leave it for the next guy- next week, ten years from now, a hundred years from now... It's important.

Besides, the way I see it, it's kinda like going to the beach- and to prove that you went to the beach, you brought home a couple crates of sand. A picture can tell a thousand words, and these days, phones have amazing capabilities- like excellent camera features- so you can document what you find w/o having to haul it home- to prove that you found it at a certain location. I'm in the midst of preparations to move, so I think I can say a thing or two about having boxes of things I really never needed to keep. And I'll be doing a 'blessing of the rivers'- going back to certain sites, and re-depositing what I thoughtlessly removed for no good reason. But that's just my take on it. Yak

 

[rockheadhunter421]

It's not like there was a law against them using debitage. I collected that longer flake b/c there is a pattern to that form. I have a few more pieces just like it but with more patina. They are were all found at different sites. That form/pattern I believe was made when they broke down the raw material. It is a simple cutting edge like your pocket knife would have. You all are expecting to see the micro-flaking/secondary flaking that is the indicator of human alteration. I still think y'all are right about that one being debitage but I see a pattern with that form that was created unintentionally. Then, it does seem like it would be smart of them to use such a flake without having to put time into micro-flaking it. What I'm talking about might go over your heads but I don't care. I found the ancient "Indian-apolis" of NC today. I'll post them artifacts tomorrow.