Too Hot to Dig...

[desertmoons]

On post #111 on the thread "Spanish/Jesuit/Mexican Mine Shrines" you told John Ariz. "I would very much like to see photos of any priest you have close up."
I am posting a photo of one of my "possible Priests" for viewing....perhaps it will relate to something you have seen.
I am putting it on my thread because I do not claim it has anything to do with a "Mine Shrine" of any persuasion....

Hey thanks oddrock. Here is one that looks like a padre to me. But perhaps a traffic director or something else.
.
I think they made political statements sometimes.Those are of interest to me. For example, a priest occasionally may be next to, patting on the head or looking down at a kneeling Indian. Those seem rare. The native is usually child size as opposed to the bigger priest. Things get interesting when you have a king then a much larger figure behind the throne,or perhaps a priest behind the king. The choices they made in such carvings I suspect will lead to who , and when and some hidden history.


Actually all priests and padres are of interest to me. Noobies..does not mean they have some special meaning. I don't know if they do. I just like them as one thing that might be possible to use them to date a trail.

 

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[Springfield]

.... I think they made political statements sometimes.Those are of interest to me. For example, a priest occasionally may be next to, patting on the head or looking down at a kneeling Indian. Those seem rare. The native is usually child size as opposed to the bigger priest. Things get interesting when you have a king then a much larger figure behind the throne,or perhaps a priest behind the king. The choices they made in such carvings I suspect will lead to who , and when and some hidden history.....

Here's a religio kneeling before some little guy. You don't need to squint to see him - it's a rock carving. The little guy must be important.

 

[oddrock]

Dsty, Thanks for your reply, I agree with both of your views.

Had, if time permits, I will be on site next week to see what shows up. A cloudy day should show the head with the hat w/o the shadows.

Desertmoons, you are welcome, Love your photo!

Springfield, surely you jest. I know of no culture that would depict someone "kneeling" before a figure that is smaller, or lower down. Squinting or not the item in your kneeling figure's right hand looks more like a bird than a cross. (If that is what you are implying as "religio".)
I have seen things similiar, but choose not to post them....

Oddrock

 

[Springfield]

... Springfield, surely you jest. I know of no culture that would depict someone "kneeling" before a figure that is smaller, or lower down. Squinting or not the item in your kneeling figure's right hand looks more like a bird than a cross. (If that is what you are implying as "religio".)
I have seen things similiar, but choose not to post them....

Oddrock

No joke here rocky. The kneeling figure holds a cross in his right hand and a bouquet of roses in his left. You made a good point about the bird/cross reference though. Ha, ha - better than you realize. The small guy is Santa Nino de Atocha. He's the patron saint in the area where this carving sits. Are you sure you are unaware of this culture?

These figures are examples of bona fide symbology carved in rock, if you're interested. They are also likely a topographic reference. And they're likely not 'Spanish'. When people are clever enough, they have no reason to leave their messages obscure - except their meanings of course. Rain or sun, morning or afternoon, there they are - in plain sight, easy to find. Why would they be hidden?

 

[oddrock]

No joke here rocky. The kneeling figure holds a cross in his right hand and a bouquet of roses in his left. You made a good point about the bird/cross reference though. Ha, ha - better than you realize. The small guy is Santa Nino de Atocha. He's the patron saint in the area where this carving sits. Are you sure you are unaware of this culture?

These figures are examples of bona fide symbology carved in rock, if you're interested. They are also likely a topographic reference. And they're likely not 'Spanish'. When people are clever enough, they have no reason to leave their messages obscure - except their meanings of course. Rain or sun, morning or afternoon, there they are - in plain sight, easy to find. Why would they be hidden?

Springfield,

Thank you for your reply and for the gentle reminder of the Child Jesus. I also got your "jab" of whether or not I would be interested in examples of "bona fide symbology carved in rock." Some people believe that only what they find & see is "bona fide".

Your picture, your view of it, and I will respect it as being the most likely correct. (you have the advantage of being on-site and relating it to your area)
You see the bent legs as someone kneeling/I see movement depicted.
You see a cross/I see a bird.
You see a bouquet of roses/I see smoldering sage.
We may both see the hill or mission above, and more topo representations.
Real hard to tell from the little picture you posted much about the "little guy" so I will assume you can see his cape, food basket, staff/with drinking cup, etc.
I can make out a possible halo or cross representation around his head.
I can also make out the link from guy on the left's mid-section to the little guy's head area.
I am not sure what you perceive that to be.

OK. So it is a "Spanish carving"/most likely not "Spanish."
So it was most likely pecked into the rock by a different group, perhaps much later...No reason to hide.

Oddrock

 

[Springfield]

Oddrock, trying to figure out this stuff requires hard work, not frivolous drive-by opinions. Unfortunately, this forum catagory has become a video game for imaginative dreamers. Rock on.

 

[hadji009]

Here's a religio kneeling before some little guy. You don't need to squint to see him - it's a rock carving. The little guy must be important.( it is a shadow of himself.)

 

[desertmoons]

Santa Nino de Atocha.

Thanks Springfield. I had forgotten about him. I think I have seen him in another mining area,but likely not up to your standard of proof. That's okay. Its not up to my standard of proof either lol. Just one of those things where you "Hmmm.. I wonder" Yep, so in that case, a big figure would be looking up or even kneeling to the little one.


Oddrock, those legs..I am not sure they would refer to motion..or if they do, those legs have some additional info about that motion not just a straight walk about. Would have to look it up.

Interesting discussion that I have no useful info to add. Except I did see a good example of a Native looking owl that was not native at all, once. It was on a panel with some real Native glyphs(in my opinion.) Maybe some dots around the Nino. I see how it could go either way on Springfield's glyph. However, you are there and know the context and how it turned out (topographical.) So thanks again. The existence of this sort of thing could imply a lot.

Some of these trails I have seen , just seemed to have been worked or marked over and over again.

My pic, I think is an example of the rock, shadow, sun manipulation style and a fair number of more discrete, concrete carvings.

 

[Rawhide]

Springfield is talking from experience. He has a set of signs he knows what they mean. If you have a king or a priest you have a nice place to look. These symbols I usually find associated with other signs. I know how I read them and what I find. The trail sign is to lead you to water, a camp, safety, and yes possible cache. To me the King or Priest is a site specific sign, not a trail say per say. But yes you will find sign with these that lead you. A king is a designation, and a priest is a guide. A heart is a map. A owl is a directional to the mine/cave. Simple so far right? But each sign has multiple meanings. Not just the definitions I have gave. You take all these signs and you connect the dots. The puzzle gets more complicated as you are looking for certain geometrical designs. I believe there is a hidden trail in the real trail and you need as much info as you can get to decipher it. There is a few more ways to use a sign but Im just making a example. We only see what we are supposed to see. My wife who comes along once every 6 months pulls some great signs out for me. We all are our own experts.

 

[oddrock]

Had, Dms, & Casca

Thank each of you for your input. Please note that I stated that Springfield was most likely correct in his assessment of his signs.

Kim I thank you for the private message/invite/and videos. I pm'd back...not sure if it went through. (forgot to answer your question about boats....Yes)


Once upon a time (about 30 years ago) I only looked for obvious, precise carvings in the field. Walked many miles and found a few. Walked by many things with hardly a second glance.


The following pic is of rock on a trail that I walked by thinking that" looks a little like a frog." No confirmation notch, not smoothly shaped my man, so on I went.

 

[oddrock]

Perhaps twenty years later I find myself looking at the save rock with my squinty eyed view. Now I am thinking "maybe a frog with something on his head?"
What is he looking at? Standing behind him and looking over his head a site a line of travel, almost due east. What I find, is in my squinty eyed view, a turtle. Maybe something on his back.

 

[oddrock]

Hmmm...No legs, just sitting there looking...at what?
At this "video game" I "imagine" I will be watching this week for any changes that show up.

Rock On, I will!

Oddrock

 

[Shortstack]

Oddrock,
That is a pretty detailed turtle head sticking out of the rock face, above that white "X" in the upper left side of the photo. And, what is that isolated lighted thing in the bottom, center area........in the deep shadow?

 

[Springfield]

Hmmm...No legs, just sitting there looking...at what?
At this "video game" I "imagine" I will be watching this week for any changes that show up.

Rock On, I will!

Oddrock

That's a nice looking Mayan-looking-face shadow. If you'd found a petroglyph centered on the pointy nose-tip, you'd have something to shout about.

 

[Shortstack]

After staring at that white "X" for a while, I now think that it's a shape formed by 2 branches of those 2 stick trees. But, it can still be used as a locator in this photo, for the turtle head.

I wonder if the turtle coming out of the wall, plus that big nosed Aztec / Mayan guy give indications for a pozo. Have you looked under those ledges for the letter "P" as Old Dog spoke of??

Could that turtle head actually be a SNAKE head?? It has a pointy head like a viper.

 

[hadji009]

That's a nice looking Mayan-looking-face shadow. If you'd found a petroglyph centered on the pointy nose-tip, you'd have something to shout about.

might have something at the tip of this guys nose?

 

[billythekidder]

looks like a F and some symbols

 

[Rawhide]

You don't know what you have here do you?

 

[oddrock]

You don't know what you have here do you?

Casca

In the USA back in the sixties there was a TV series called "Hogan's Hero's". I will use the jumbo sized sargent's phrase he used a lot....I knooow nuuthiiing.
Seriously my frivolous, uneducated guess would be an ancient site that was looted by the Spanish in the claim of religion and their king. Destroyed the obvious, took what they wanted the native slaves to carry, reburied and marked the rest in some distant location a long way from where I am...
However I do like your statement about the last 20 feet.
Pressed for time, will try to answer the rest of you guys later. (could be as late as next week)
Oddrock

 

[Rawhide]

Anyone see the double cross? Odd, I like your area, but I would not hunt this spot.