Told to leave 2 parks

[deeotto]

OK, I get my new Mxt and i"m ready to enter the world of metal detecting.I have been waiting for this for 2months since I started to get the fever. I head off to my town park. I'm there about 1/2 hour and a guy comes up to me and tells me that what I'm doing is not allowed. So I ask him if this is a public park. He says yes but I'm not allowed to do that here. I tell him I paid my taxes and this is a recreational activity and I'm exercising my right to enjoy my park. He tells me I cant detect here so I leave. I head off to another park and start to detect and a park personell tells me I cant metal detect here. Go through the same routine and end up just leaving. Now I don't know where I can detect.
What's the deal. Is it just upstate NY. I didn't leave one hole. You couldn't even tell where I dug. I would like to know what the law is about public property in NY and Detecting. Anyone ever experience this in NY?

 

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[Charlie P. (NY)]

I tell him I paid my taxes and this is a recreational activity and I'm exercising my right to enjoy my park.

Wrong approach.

First, you call or visit the town or city parks department or clerk's office and ask to speak to the park superintendant (or maintenance supervisor). Then you ask permission to detect.

If they approach you to toss you out you've already lost. You have to ask permission, not forgiveness. Some only allow detecting in the off season or certain areas. Some have been raped to the point of vandalism by slob treasure hunters and someone has peed in the well before you got there. If you meet them ahead of time you can occasionally impress them enough for a trial period permission.

Cop an attitude and you're out on your ear. I've lived in Upstate NY all my life, but I think that is almost universal. If I catch you hunting on my property, MD or firearm, and you haven't asked I'll boot you off because you haven't asked. Not because I object to either. Your tax dollars don't entitle you to squat. You can't borrow a police car, Airforce helicopter or Army howitzer or sit in the President's chair, either. Life stinks, but that is how it works. Parks got rules, and even little ponds have fish that want to be the big fish. Maybe you can win in court of appeals or at the town board meeting - but I doubt it. Ask the mayor. He'll pass you off to someone. If you're lucky it will be the boss of the guy who booted you and he'll think differently, and you'll be OK.

 

[deeotto]

I was polite and it was friendly conversation. I didn't cop an attitude just was being honest. I will take your advice and go to the parks and rec and see what I should do or where they will allow detecting.
Thanks

 

[skydiv]

in my parks i need a permit $7.00

 

[jeffinflint]

Here in Flint, Michigan, I have to pay $10. per year for access to detect at county parks. State parks are a freebee. However, I never get bothered because I usually go out very early in the morning, around sun-up time. I generally avoid any people if at all possible. What sucks here in mid-Michigan, is that many of the very old parks where there are probably some goodies, are overrun by ghetto, if you know what I mean. Way to dangerous to even think about going. I guess in our hobby there are always some sorts of obstacles, and the successful hunters are the creative and persistent ones.

p.s. I also use an MXT, and I love it!

HH, Jeff in Flint, MI

 

[diggummup]

The laws are different everywhere.State,county,and city laws pertaining to parks are easy to check online usually.If I couldn't find a law against it,I would ask whomever was telling you not to detect,to state the ordinance prohibiting it.If you don't mind me asking,what county and city are you detecting? I'll see what I can come up with for you.

 

[eagle77]

Life sucks, but it doesn't stop with those 2 parks.Look for schools, churches, etc. anyplace people got together.

 

[deeotto]

Hey diggummup
The parks are in Wilton NY. Could also be listed under Gansevoort NY. These are next to Saratoga Springs. Thanks for any help.
By the way, the little I did I loved. Now I just want to find some great places to hunt.
Thanks

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ding-Ding! round two. Here we go again :P

I don't ask to hunt public parks. If someone has an issue, they're welcome to tell me. If you go asking at each city's city hall, you risk a "no" from some bureaucrat, who has images of geeks with shovels, when in fact, no rules existed.

I don't know what the problem is in NY or other states, but here in CA, people hunt parks and think of themselves no differently than anyone else using any other park facility. No wait ... I take that back...... I do know first-hand of 2 instances where someone asked to use (md) at parks. In each case, they were told "no"here. At the first one, several others in that town had md'd there, un-restricted, in full view of God and everyone, for years. All of the sudden, one day, they got booted. When they asked "why?", they got the answer "the supervisor says so now". They then found out through the grapevine that a newbie had gone to the ranger's kiosk the previous week asking permission. The ranger looked it up in their book, found something they thought applied, and told him "no". I guess from then after, when they subsequently saw other md'rs, it was still fresh in their mind, as if to say "hey wait, there's one of THEM".

In the other situation I recall, someone in my town asked at city hall if they could md at our central park. He got a "no", and promptly told us veterans, as he met us at our club meeting, that it was "illegal". That was news to us! We'd md'd there without so much as a "boo". Funny thing was, we continued to detect there, and still, to this day, no one ever says a thing, other than "can you help me find a sprinkler head please?"

So maybe I'm just in a relaxed area, but I would still take this stance to any state I traveled too. The only exception would be obvious historic monuments.

Sorry to repeat these examples that have come up only a few weeks ago, but I fear that all we md'rs do is to paint ourselves into a self-fulfilling prophesy by walking on pins and needles all the time, as if there were something inherently wrong with us, or our hobby. Sure, maybe here and there someone might have an issue. Heck, I've even been booted a time or two. Sometimes I just let that park cool off, and return at a different time, and never again get bothered. Chances are it was a bored cop with nothing to do, or a gardener having a bad day, an isolated complaint, etc..... And yes, maybe there *might* be a city with a universal rule that is, in fact, enforced. They are welcome to tell you, and then you just hit another city instead of that one.

 

[Jeffro]

This should help. read everything before you click on New York.

http://www.fmdac.org/parks/parks.htm

 

[eagle77]

From Wilton website..
GENERAL RULES FOR GAVIN PARK
TRASH IN/TRASH OUT APPLIES TO ALL PARK USERS
NO PETS ALLOWED
NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES
NO GLASS CONTAINERS
OBEY THE 5 MPH SPEED LIMIT
PARK IN DESIGNATED AREAS ONLY
WATCH FOR CHILDREN
PEDESTRIANS HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY
RESPECT OTHER ACTIVITIES IN PROGRESS
SUPERVISE THE CHILDREN IN YOUR CARE AT ALL TIMES
FIRES FOR COOKING ARE LOCATED AT RENTAL PAVILION
BARBECUE SITE ONLY
NO BARBECUE GRILLS BROUGHT IN
NO PROPANE OR GASOLINE OR OTHER FUEL ALLOWED

Not much else on their site, however from reading what little on their site, the tree hugger warning flag went up IMHO

Here is a link for ordinances on Wilton NY (I couldn't find any reference to MD'ing on parks, but they could have a regulation that wouldn't be listed in the ordinance.)
http://www.e-codes.generalcode.com/codebook_frameset.asp?t=ws&cb=1322_A

 

[deeotto]

Thanks for the help all. Nice to know there is support and help.
Have my machine 1 week and I'm already a wiser Th'er.
I'm gonna like this hobby

 

[wesfrye53]

I was waiting for a Shrine Parade to start and "just happened to have my detector" along. We were along a creek lining up and I had about 30 minutes to scan the creek bank. Just a bunch of junk but still fun. Didn't ask as I feel along side a creek beside a public road where folks fish, wade, etc...it was a Public Place.

 

[eagle77]

I was waiting for a Shrine Parade to start and "just happened to have my detector" along. We were along a creek lining up and I had about 30 minutes to scan the creek bank. Just a bunch of junk but still fun. Didn't ask as I feel along side a creek beside a public road where folks fish, wade, etc...it was a Public Place.

Bridges hold unique finds.

 

[BioProfessor]

The problem with hunting parks and other city/county property is that there is usually no clear cut set of rules that apply specifically to metal detecting. In my town, the ordinance reads "no digging" in/on city property. That's sort of vague. I called the Park Superintendent and asked if it was OK to metal detect on city property. He said it was fine if I didn't leave holes and make a mess. I asked him about the ordinance and he said it was there to keep people from digging up flowers, trees, making fire pits, etc. Not for people metal detecting who make sure they put things back the way they found them. So I have his permission to MD in the parks but I don't have it from the rest of the city government - police, city council, mayor, etc. Any of these can "make a ruling" on whether or not you should be where you are and what you are doing. There are just too many layers of government and too many people "in charge" to say "you have permission to MD." It would almost take a city ordinance written specifically for MDing to make sure you were covered.

The police have to respond to a complaint. If they don't think you should be there doing what you are doing, they can ask you to leave and it doesn't matter if you've spoken to the Parks people, the city manager, or anybody else. They make their decision on the spot and within the laws they are required to uphold.

If I were asked to leave by the police, and I have been, I would not make a stink about already having permission and you were not going to leave. Remember these guys have handcuffs and guns and radios. You are not going to win. What I would try to do is engage them in a conversation about what you have done to get permission. What do you need to do to keep this from happening again. What kind of documentation should you have to show them next time. If you run into a "crazy" person like the lady, just leave. You can't win that one.

I have found that the police, sheriff, or anybody else is always willing to talk to you about how to avoid this in the future. Just tell them you will leave immediately but just ask for some advice. It's the best you can usually do on city property.

IMHO

Daryl

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Daryl, you say: So I have his permission to MD in the parks but I don't have it from the rest of the city government - police, city council, mayor, etc. I got a chuckle out of that, since.... there's a point at which this get's absurd. I have actually read posts by someone who got a "yes", but decided that the clerk or whatever didn't seem authorative enough, so they went even further up the ladder.

I suggest they go from 1) on-site grounds-keeper, to 2) park's dept. desk clerk, 3) park's department senior staff, 4) city council and city manager, 5) mayor 6) county administration (since the city is ONLY a sub-part of a certain county, right?), 7) State capital staff (since a county is ONLY a sub-part of a certain state, right?), 8) Washington DC legislative body (since a state is ONLY a part of the nation as a whole, right?), and finally: 9) President Bush himself! (afterall, he can VETO a bill or law that comes across his desk right?).

I mean, you can't be too safe, right? You don't want to have your detector confiscated, right? You don't want to give our hobby a bad name, right? So go through all those 9 steps, and be sure to have your shovel in hand at each stop, referencing priceless relics and indian artifacts all in the same breath. Afterall, you have to honest about potential finds, 50/50 splits, holes, etc... right?

 

[THing4CSA]

Hi All my TH'ing Friends
I had to share my experience with you all on this topic. What I do is to call the parks department and ask for the person the is in charge of the park use. I ask what their rules are and make sure I write them down in a list of 1 to what ever. After they provide me their list of what can't be done in the park I read back the list to make sure I have them all and then I ask for their name as I want it to send a thank you note. I include the phone number of where I called and write down the date and time. I carry this list with me into the park and if I am asked what I am doing and am then informed that TH'ing is not allowed I show them my list and inform them I have been given the green light by so and so from the office of the park services. Now you have to use a bit of common sense here if you are searching next to a historic site you already know you are wrong as most historic sites have a minimun coverage of 200 or more feet on all sides. I agree with those that say I pay taxes to maintain parks, and after seeing what football and baseball and soccer do to the grass I can only wonder what all the fuss is about. I would much rather search private property and avoid any possible problems with city, county, or state officials.
Just my two cents.
Dave
'Digger-Dave'
THing4CSA
PS: Remember; Don't leave it in the ground!

 

[BioProfessor]

I was actually speaking from personal experience. I was hunting an abandoned business - a creamery that had been in operation since the 1880's - that was up for sale. I asked around the small town about who I would need permission from to detect on the site. I was told that the executor of the estate lived in the next town over and I should talk to him. I got the name and address and went to ask permission. He said that he had no problem with me being there as long as he knew it was me who was there. He copied my driver's license and got my telephone number. Satisfied, off I went. I was there my second day and the police arrive to arrest me for tresspass and criminal damage to property. Seems that one of the neighbors had seen me there on the two occasions and noticed me digging holes. They called the family attorney, who called the person's son, who went down to the police station and brought the police to the site demanding I be arrested. I told them I had permsission but the owner's son said I got permission from the wrong person and wanted me arrested. I kept my cool and after a long wait in the squad car and a background check and verification that the executor knew who I was, the police let me go. The owner's son had left and the policeman said that if I just left, it would be enough for him.

If it can get that screwed up on a private piece of ground. I'm sorry but it can be 10 times worse on a city owned piece of property.

With handcuffs on, it is not a situation to make light of. Period.

Daryl

 

[cosmic]

I start by calling the local police... They even gave the names and location of the city parks.. If there is a ordinance against it they would know...
Thats were I start..
Ray

 

[diggummup]

I start by calling the local police... They even gave the names and location of the city parks.. If there is a ordinance against it they would know...
Thats were I start..
Ray

Yes,we were talikng about "parks".

deeotto-These are the parks I see located in your area-
Saratoga County, New York


Congress Park Saratoga Springs
Kaydeross Park Quaker Springs
Moreau Lake State Park Gansevoort
New York State Game Management Area Niskayuna
Peebles Island State Park Troy North
Saratoga National Historical Park Mechanicville
Saratoga Spa State Park Saratoga Springs

As you can see I see only state parks and 1 historical park besides Congress park and Kaydeross park,which i'm looking into.You already have a link posted by jeffro with rules for the state parks and as always,historical parks are off limits.