Timeline of a whistleblower

[TreasurePirate69]

And the plot thickens...

Gold News, Gold Market, Mining Companies, Silver News | Kitco News

"The famed whistleblower who allegedly told U.S. regulators that gold and silver prices are manipulated by the likes of JPMorgan Chase has no background as a metals trader, according to precious metals research firm CPM Group.
Andrew Maguire, presented in the media and on his current employer’s website as a trader with more than 30 years of experience, actually has no real trading experience, alleged CPM’s managing director Jeff Christian during his presentation Thursday at the Silver Summit in Spokane. Rather, Christian said, Maguire’s background is in vehicle car leasing."

 

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[jim4silver]

And the plot thickens...

Gold News, Gold Market, Mining Companies, Silver News | Kitco News

"The famed whistleblower who allegedly told U.S. regulators that gold and silver prices are manipulated by the likes of JPMorgan Chase has no background as a metals trader, according to precious metals research firm CPM Group.
Andrew Maguire, presented in the media and on his current employer’s website as a trader with more than 30 years of experience, actually has no real trading experience, alleged CPM’s managing director Jeff Christian during his presentation Thursday at the Silver Summit in Spokane. Rather, Christian said, Maguire’s background is in vehicle car leasing."

I would like to see some proof of that re: Maguire. If he (Maguire) really is not what he claims to be, such a revelation would make many of the PM bug pundits look like idiots since they seem to consider Maguire a sort of "hero" and metal markets guru and tout him and his views all day long.

From what I remember reading and hearing in past interviews, Jeff Christian of CPM routinely denies there is any manipulation in the PM markets. Thus, I personally will not believe anything he proclaims having to do with the PM markets without seeing some "proof".

All just my opinion.

Jim

 

[TreasurePirate69]

I would like to see some proof of that re: Maguire. If he (Maguire) really is not what he claims to be, such a revelation would make many of the PM bug pundits look like idiots since they seem to consider Maguire a sort of "hero" and metal markets guru and tout him and his views all day long.

From what I remember reading and hearing in past interviews, Jeff Christian of CPM routinely denies there is any manipulation in the PM markets. Thus, I personally will not believe anything he proclaims having to do with the PM markets without seeing some "proof".

All just my opinion.

Jim

I agree. Let's see some proof from both sides. According to the article, Maguire has never provided any proof of his employment claims or credentials when asked. Should we believe that claim or not? I don't know.

For me the whole thing has smelled fishy from day one. Both sides have a vested interest in making the other side look like a liar. So the plot thickens... but so far, there has not been any proof provided from either side. Only time will tell.

 

[lost]

This Maguire thing is being discussed at length on the Kitco Forum and again at length at the GIM (goldismoney) web site. Lots of info to sort through.

 

[TreasurePirate69]

I just wonder where it will all lead. Nowhere? Possibly. But there is also the possibility that he will be shown to be a complete fraud. If that happens it will definitely get interesting. And unfortunately, it will also spawn a whole separate set of conspiracy theories for those who can't come to grips with what it means to their world view. Don't get me wrong.... I'm not saying that manipulation doesn't happen or that believing in manipulation is somehow dependent upon Maguire being something other than a fraud. But it will be sad if he is shown to be a fraud and people simply refuse to believe it despite the fact that it makes no real difference when trying to prove or disprove manipulation.

 

[jim4silver]

it will also spawn a whole separate set of conspiracy theories for those who can't come to grips with what it means to their world view

Does this mean that if Maguire is not a fraud you will be joining the same "club" as me and Charlie (Marchas)?

This will sound crazy coming from a PM bug, but I kind of hope he is found to be a fraud, because then I will have to stop visiting several of my current favorite PM bug sites which eats into my time daily. I will still buy and hold PMs because I know they will be THE asset to be holding someday. When, I don't know.

As far as if Maguire is found to be a fraud and new conspiracy theories being invented: what if the anti PM bug people could create a guy like Maguire, then later expose him as a fraud (the plan all along by all parties involved), then use it to further discredit PMs and PM bugs? LOL (I don't really believe this, but thought I would come up with one for fun).

All just my opinion.

Jim

 

[TreasurePirate69]

Does this mean that if Maguire is not a fraud you will be joining the same "club" as me and Charlie (Marchas)?

This will sound crazy coming from a PM bug, but I kind of hope he is found to be a fraud, because then I will have to stop visiting several of my current favorite PM bug sites which eats into my time daily. I will still buy and hold PMs because I know they will be THE asset to be holding someday. When, I don't know.

As far as if Maguire is found to be a fraud and new conspiracy theories being invented: what if the anti PM bug people could create a guy like Maguire, then later expose him as a fraud (the plan all along by all parties involved), then use it to further discredit PMs and PM bugs? LOL (I don't really believe this, but thought I would come up with one for fun).

All just my opinion.

Jim

I don't think I would ever be allowed to join your "club". I don't know the proper handshake.

I don't think Maguire being a fraud has any effect on the validity of the argument for or against manipulation. He is one person and manipulation can exist with or without him. Of course I still believe that major manipulation does not exist (at least to the level that would be required for some peoples' world views to remain in tact). But I am more than happy to believe that minor manipulations exist and happen all the time. One side pushes one way, the other side pushes back. As I've always said, whether or not manipulation truly exists is not the major question. The major question is to what extent and for what purpose?

Frankly, I'm not really "in the know" when it comes to this Maguire guy and his current exploits. I'm familiar with his whistle blowing past but I have not kept up with what he has been doing lately. Is it really true that if he is found to be a fraud that some major PM websites are going to take a huge hit? Does he really have that kind of pull these days?

As for your mock conspiracy theory that the anti-PM people inserted him as some sort of patsy.... shhhhhhh!!! .... don't give anyone any ideas.

 

[Marchas45]

LMAO Really enjoyed reading the posts Lol Secret handshake. lol come on TP your know you want to come over to the dark side. Lol

As for Jeff Christian. I would not trust that guy not a JOT. As for Maguire, I need to check that out.
Keep Stacking I Did. Reached my Goal In Gold.

 

[Marchas45]

LMAO Here we Go The scoop on Maquire, follow the link.

My Blog

 

[TreasurePirate69]

LMAO Really enjoyed reading the posts Lol Secret handshake. lol come on TP your know you want to come over to the dark side. Lol

As for Jeff Christian. I would not trust that guy not a JOT. As for Maguire, I need to check that out.
Keep Stacking I Did. Reached my Goal In Gold.

that is an awesome looking pile. I've always had a soft spot for those Sovereigns.

 

[TreasurePirate69]

LMAO Here we Go The scoop on Maquire, follow the link.

My Blog

Ok.... so he admits he never worked at Goldman Sachs. So where does his PM experience come from? Is he "self taught"? Nothing wrong with that. But everything I've read about him has led people to believe that he is some industry insider. It sounds to me like he has been more than happy to ride the wave of false perceptions to increase his lot in life.

The plot continues to thicken. Let's see how he "deals with it this week" as he states.

 

[Marchas45]

Ok.... so he admits he never worked at Goldman Sachs. So where does his PM experience come from? Is he "self taught"? Nothing wrong with that. But everything I've read about him has led people to believe that he is some industry insider. It sounds to me like he has been more than happy to ride the wave of false perceptions to increase his lot in life.

The plot continues to thicken. Let's see how he "deals with it this week" as he states.

He never said he did TP that is the problem. Lol

Eric King: “Andrew, I know if you check your Wikipedia page it actually refers to the New York Post saying that you worked at Goldman Sachs. I understand that’s an error. They try to do a great job at the Post, but there is a mistake in there, and it’s right on the Wikipedia page. What’s sad to me is that this individual tried to run with that and use it to discredit you, the fact that someone else made an error.”


Maguire: “Members of the public will know, I’ve brought Jeffrey Christian’s integrity into question on numerous occasions. And it’s no more than an attempt to discredit my work exposing the unallocated bullion banking system for which he has a vested interest, and is (desperately) trying to defend.

 

[Marchas45]

Just out TP another update for you. Lol Keep Stacking

Andrew Maguire's Employer Responds to Jeffrey Christian's Fraud Allegations | SilverDoctors.com

 

[TreasurePirate69]

He never said he did TP that is the problem. Lol

Eric King: “Andrew, I know if you check your Wikipedia page it actually refers to the New York Post saying that you worked at Goldman Sachs. I understand that’s an error. They try to do a great job at the Post, but there is a mistake in there, and it’s right on the Wikipedia page. What’s sad to me is that this individual tried to run with that and use it to discredit you, the fact that someone else made an error.”


Maguire: “Members of the public will know, I’ve brought Jeffrey Christian’s integrity into question on numerous occasions. And it’s no more than an attempt to discredit my work exposing the unallocated bullion banking system for which he has a vested interest, and is (desperately) trying to defend.

What you highlighted does not say that he didn't originally claim to have worked there. That doesn't mean he did claim it though. But evidently, it has had this erroneous information in many places and he doesn't seem to have tried to hard to correct it. Wonder why that was?

 

[TreasurePirate69]

Just out TP another update for you. Lol Keep Stacking

Andrew Maguire's Employer Responds to Jeffrey Christian's Fraud Allegations | SilverDoctors.com

Interesting update. How I read that is that Maguire possibly never had an real PM trading experience until he was trading independently. I have no idea but I bet what comes of all of this is that he has no true professional metals trading experience. Again, that doesn't mean he isn't talented or correct in his findings. But if it is true then it will reflect badly on him because most people have been lead to believe that he was an active London metals trader when he decided to blow the whistle. If he was just some guy sitting in his basement trading metals, what makes him any different than any of us? It wouldn't be hard to believe that he is just another silver bull who is having trouble justifying why the current price doesn't match the $100 price that his Kool-Aid drinking has led him to believe.

All just my opinion and speculation. No proof whatsoever. It will be interesting to see how this continues to play out.

 

[jim4silver]

Interesting update. How I read that is that Maguire possibly never had an real PM trading experience until he was trading independently. I have no idea but I bet what comes of all of this is that he has no true professional metals trading experience. Again, that doesn't mean he isn't talented or correct in his findings. But if it is true then it will reflect badly on him because most people have been lead to believe that he was an active London metals trader when he decided to blow the whistle. If he was just some guy sitting in his basement trading metals, what makes him any different than any of us? It wouldn't be hard to believe that he is just another silver bull who is having trouble justifying why the current price doesn't match the $100 price that his Kool-Aid drinking has led him to believe.

All just my opinion and speculation. No proof whatsoever. It will be interesting to see how this continues to play out.

I would have to agree with this in general. However, I did some research and there are articles about him in 2010 that refer to him as an "independent trader".

Jim

 

[jim4silver]

Sounds like he was more than a basement dwelling trader from his response.

A Formal Response from Andrew Maguire | SilverDoctors.com

Jim

 

[TreasurePirate69]

Sounds like he was more than a basement dwelling trader from his response.

A Formal Response from Andrew Maguire | SilverDoctors.com

Jim

The only thing I see in that article which says he was not just an independent trader sitting in his basement is the reference to Guilderand Mining. Googling doesn't seem to bring up anything useful about what that really is or means. Can anyone explain what this company is? Don't we have old coots here on this very website who could say they are a director for some small mining outfit? That could mean anything from "he owns a gold panning kit" to "he has years of mining and PM experience".

Again, it just seems suspect to me that he can't point to any real PM trading experience other than through the school of hard knocks. And he seems to never have really tried too hard to fix the issue that he has been quoted as having worked at Goldman Sachs. The whole thing sounds like a guy who is out to take advantage of whatever opportunity he can in order to make a name for himself. That doesn't mean he is wrong. But it does bring his credibility into question.

If you were told that some PM bull sitting in his basement had pointed out a conspiracy theory to the CFTC would you have given it as much credence as people have given Maguire? If people hadn't thought (erroneously) that he was some seasoned professional PM trader at Goldman Sachs would he have gotten any attention at all? Or would he have just been written off as yet another PM bull who is mad because silver isn't $100 an ounce like they expect it should be?

Oh well... looks like the story is over unless someone can dig up an interview where he specifically states that he has more experience than he really had at the time. Now he is basically claiming that he had no real experience as a professional trader and was just an independent all along. People will likely just accept that. But if that had been known at the beginning I doubt that he would be half the public figure that he is now.

 

[jim4silver]

The only thing I see in that article which says he was not just an independent trader sitting in his basement is the reference to Guilderand Mining. Googling doesn't seem to bring up anything useful about what that really is or means. Can anyone explain what this company is? Don't we have old coots here on this very website who could say they are a director for some small mining outfit? That could mean anything from "he owns a gold panning kit" to "he has years of mining and PM experience".

Again, it just seems suspect to me that he can't point to any real PM trading experience other than through the school of hard knocks. And he seems to never have really tried too hard to fix the issue that he has been quoted as having worked at Goldman Sachs. The whole thing sounds like a guy who is out to take advantage of whatever opportunity he can in order to make a name for himself. That doesn't mean he is wrong. But it does bring his credibility into question.

If you were told that some PM bull sitting in his basement had pointed out a conspiracy theory to the CFTC would you have given it as much credence as people have given Maguire? If people hadn't thought (erroneously) that he was some seasoned professional PM trader at Goldman Sachs would he have gotten any attention at all? Or would he have just been written off as yet another PM bull who is mad because silver isn't $100 an ounce like they expect it should be?

Oh well... looks like the story is over unless someone can dig up an interview where he specifically states that he has more experience than he really had at the time. Now he is basically claiming that he had no real experience as a professional trader and was just an independent all along. People will likely just accept that. But if that had been known at the beginning I doubt that he would be half the public figure that he is now.

I really don't see what the big hang up is about where the guy worked. He says in his article that he worked as a derivatives trader then later became an independent trader. He said he was on the boards of some places, etc. So it is not like the guy was some internet commando for the past 40 years according to what he claims.

In any event, results will speak louder than words. Unfortunately, if/when PMs do ever take off all the PM bulls will take credit for making the right call, even the ones who have been wrong so far many times in their calls.

Looks like Maguire has a service where people can pay to have access to his trades or something like that. I know there was a guy or two on a gold and silver blog I sometimes read who claimed to have made a good deal in the past following Maguire's trades.

Metals Trades. Real time gold trading with Andrew Maguire | Coghlan Capital


Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[TreasurePirate69]

I really don't see what the big hang up is about where the guy worked. He says in his article that he worked as a derivatives trader then later became an independent trader. He said he was on the boards of some places, etc. So it is not like the guy was some internet commando for the past 40 years according to what he claims.

In any event, results will speak louder than words. Unfortunately, if/when PMs do ever take off all the PM bulls will take credit for making the right call, even the ones who have been wrong so far many times in their calls.

Looks like Maguire has a service where people can pay to have access to his trades or something like that. I know there was a guy or two on a gold and silver blog I sometimes read who claimed to have made a good deal in the past following Maguire's trades.

Metals Trades. Real time gold trading with Andrew Maguire | Coghlan Capital


Just my opinion.

Jim

The hangup is really only about the initial perception. Like I said, would anyone have listened to him if they thought he was just some guy sitting in his basement? Maybe, maybe not.

There are countless people out there who are right some of the time but never right all of the time. At different points in the market's history it has been easier to be right than at other times. People like Jim Cramer come to mind when I think of people who get way more notoriety than they likely deserve because they happened to be at the right place at the right time. The markets, media, and blogs are full of people who got lucky with a prediction or two. Most of these people are wrong 99% of the time and just get by through highlighting the 1% of the time they are right. They conveniently ignore all the times they are wrong.

So is Maguire really any different than anyone else? I guess only time will tell.