Thought It Was A Lipstick Case Until I Opened It

[Metal Magnet]

Went back to a place that dates to early 1800s. As you can see from the pic, found some neat lead shot. Also found what I thought was a lipstick case, pretty deep. The container is copper. I opened it to see if it was indeed a lipstick case. I had to pierce it to open it. Once I did, I realized that it seems like it wasn't supposed to be opened It was sealed and copper. Inside I found a piece of folded paper, as you can see. I slowly unfolded it, but it has no writing on it. The paper has lines in it, I'm thinking older paper? I really have no clue what this is. The top inside has 2 holes. Again, no idea. It had some liquid in it, but it does not smell.

Any ideas?

 

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[Metal Magnet]

sorry for the delay, but it's been a busy day. here are the pics i promised. definitely writing paper in there. two holes on the interior of one side. and no external holes on the lids. i guess this could have been meant to come apart at some point and it fused when in the ground:

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

M & M ~

If the holes are in the inside only, then there must be a little hollow chamber inside the top of the cap where the holes are. Is this correct? And because I anticipate a "yes" answer to my question, I will follow up now by saying ... "That's the weirdest thing! I wonder what the holes are for?"

Thanks.

SBB

 

[Metal Magnet]

yes, there is a chamber at the top...and yes, it's weird.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Somebody carefully folded that paper to tuck it inside that capsule.. Maybe somebody will recognize the paper.

Are the inside "holes" on both caps or one side only?

 

[Metal Magnet]

Somebody carefully folded that paper to tuck it inside that capsule.. Maybe somebody will recognize the paper.

Are the inside "holes" on both caps or one side only?

holes are on one side only.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I would like nothing better than to say the following pictures prove 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that the item in question is a carrier pigeon capsule. And I would say exactly that except for five things ...

1. The WWII capsules shown are similar but not exact.
2. The WWII message papers shown are similar but not exact.
3. The capsule/tube/case/etc. in question might be a non-military pigeon capsule, but
I can't find a picture of one that is an exact match.
4. Its Metal Magnet's call and not mine.
5. And if Metal Magnet did consider this solved, would everyone agree?

I've seen at least a dozen different variations of pigeon capsules, and would be more than happy to post pictures of every one of them. And I would do just that except for one thing ...

1. Not a single one of them is an exact match. Most aren't even close except for being
"similar" in design and size.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

P.S. ~

Of the dozen or more pigeon capsules I've seen, not a single one of them was painted. I think its the "painted" aspect of the item that has me boggled more than anything else. Even the hundred or more needle cases I've seen, very, very few of them were painted. If anything, they were enamelled. In fact, I haven't seen a single item like the one in question that was painted in a similar fashion.

SBB

I painted in the red dots to indicate approximately where the seam was.

 

[taz42o]

I agree Bob, not a ww2 issue message tube, the bottom tube you posted is a PG-67 and is made of clear plastic. It was in the PG-102/CB World War II pigeon carrier kit along with the M-210 message book witch was made of very thin paper like cigarette rolling papers.
The only tube I seen that was said to be ww1 was almost identical to the ww2 tubes , plastic.

I dont think it has anything to do with military messenger pigeons they would not add weight of copper tube while using thin paper to save weight.

http://www.interbug.com/pigeon/messaging/photos/army_pigeon_crate.html

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

SS ~

If its as simple as that, then I'm back to saying its a painted needle/sewing case!

 

[taz42o]

I agree Bob, not a ww2 issue message tube, the bottom tube you posted is a PG-67 and is made of clear plastic. It was in the PG-102/CB World War II pigeon carrier kit along with the M-210 message book witch was made of very thin paper like cigarette rolling papers.
The only tube I seen that was said to be ww1 was almost identical to the ww2 tubes , plastic.

I dont think it has anything to do with military messenger pigeons they would not add weight of copper tube while using thin paper to save weight.

http://www.interbug.com/pigeon/messaging/photos/army_pigeon_crate.html

So what are these made from a pigeon would have no trouble carying a copper capsule of this size. Your statement makes no sence.

75% of whatsits are given the Green check, with out concrete proof, or an exact match via picture.

SS

Those are made from aluminum, you know the light weight silver colored stuff.
Ive seen no aluminum ones that are military issue do you have a link that shows those to be military? Or one example of a copper one, military or civilian ?
Why two compartments with a connecting hole in a message tube?
From all the evidence posted my comment makes more sense than saying any small tube with paper in it is for messenger pigeon with no evidence that it is.
Up untill my post your only contribution was "Most likely we already have the answer" That really helps to Id it. Good research.

If the owner chooses to green check this based on a guess so be it.

 

[Breezie]

The paper on the inside is irrelevant to what it is. That paper could have been put in the case at any time for any reason. I've found folded pieces of blank paper under the grips of vintage cap guns, under secretary drawers, inside of sugar dishes, inside of tea pitchers, under the false area of steamer trunks, etc. I've even found vintage postage stamps under the grips of 50s cap guns, but that doesn't make the cap gun a post office.

As far as it being a military pigeon carrier, the government would not waste the time, money, or effort to paint decorative strips on a pigeon carrier.

More than likely, the hole on the inside was to separate the longer sewing needles from the smaller needles with heads.

As stated earlier, my best educated guess is a vintage sewing needle container. Breezie

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

And are we 100% sure its even made of copper? Typically copper doesn't rust - corrode - deteriorate, even after being in the ground for years. Notice the crumbly looking edges in the picture below. Does copper usually do that? And if its not copper, but some other metal, that doesn't necessarily mean it would had to of rusted away to nothing. We've all found iron nails and other metal items that should have deteriorated but didn't.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Based on the evidence presented thus far, I will only be convinced of the items true identity when someone post a "picture" of an exact matching "cap" with "holes" inside of it. Until then, both the search and the mystery continue.

Respectfully,

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Another thought maybe its a homemade message container from a lipstick, pill, perfume or needle cannister, made by the practical pigeon keeper.. I am leaning toward pigeon cannister because of the paper that was carefully folded and placed inside.



We are close to solving but we cannot find an exact match. I wish we could positively identify the paper type.. Is the paper very thin like Taz suggested? Was the paper wet? Is it a water resistant waxy paper?

Maybe its a secret treasure map written in invisible ink. (just trying to lighten the conversation) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_ink



...or a WWI spy document? http://www.history.com/news/2011/04...pes-and-other-spy-documents-from-world-war-i/

Yesterday, the Central Intelligence Agency released the U.S. government’s six oldest classified documents, which date from 1917 and 1918 and are believed to have been the only remaining secret records of the World War I era. Nearly 100 years after these memos and instructions were written for spies, generals and diplomats, ordinary citizens can finally learn how to open sealed envelopes without detection, concoct “German secret ink” and write invisible messages using such sophisticated instruments as a toothpick dipped in milk.Two of the documents, written in French, feature recipes for mixing “German secret ink” as well as a process for making it reappear

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

As most of you should know by now, I'm a picture guy. I love searching for pictures of things irregardless of the information associated with them. But dare I confuse things and post the following picture of a "pill container?" And the only reason I do post it is to recommend to everyone that we really need to think outside of the box on this one. If you want pictures of "similar" looking items, I can produce tons of them, which include everything from snuff tubes to ... well, you name it. But doing that wouldn't solve this riddle. Nor will assumption and speculation. So let's put our thinking "caps" on and work together to solve this mystery. We just know its gotta be "something!"

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Container is shown close to actual size

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

To clarify what I meant when I said ...

"irregardless of the text"

My search methods rarely involve specifics like "sewing needle case." Although I do this ocassionally, typically that would be jumping to conclusions of a preconceived idea that could possibly mislead and limit my search. And in case you weren't already aware of it, computer search engines are fairly sophisticated these days. Meaning, just a simple search worded like ...

"cap with holes inside"

... will oftentimes produce results that might surprise you.

With my point of emphasis being, it was a similar wording like the one above that eventually led me to the Doan's pill container, which I might not have thought of otherwise.

And yet, even with all of the gobbledygook I just said, I have to admit that I still don't know what the dang thing is!

Good luck to everyone concerned ... no matter what your search methods may be.

Sincerely,

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Metal Magnet ~

Are you 100% certain the item is made of copper? It would definitely help my search attempts to know for sure whether its copper ~ brass ~ heavy tin ~ etc.

Thanks a lot.

Bob

 

[Metal Magnet]

thanks for you work everyone. i really do appreciate it. i'm pretty sure it is copper as the broken edges have that old reddish copper color. I could be wrong however.

An important note: the edges are crooked because I had to piece the middle to get at the contents. There is a seam, but it would not budge. So i put holes around the seam to break the seal.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

M & M ~

Based on your avatar I assume you did a "magnet" test on it. Right?

Thanks again.

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

thanks for you work everyone. i really do appreciate it. i'm pretty sure it is copper as the broken edges have that old reddish copper color. I could be wrong however.

An important note: the edges are crooked because I had to piece the middle to get at the contents. There is a seam, but it would not budge. So i put holes around the seam to break the seal.

-Being that it was wet inside, could you explain to us why the paper wasnt rotted?
-Is it waxy water resistant paper?
-Also can you measure the exact length so I can compare with my needles.
-Does the inside hole have any cushion material like cork?