Thomas Jefferson Beale - The Mystery Identity

[ECS]

It has never been proven that anything contained in the Beale Papers narrative occurred outside the parameters of that 1885 job pamphlet.

 

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[TN_Guest1523]

It has never been proven that anything contained in the Beale Papers narrative occurred outside the parameters of that 1885 job pamphlet.

LOL

 

[ECS]

I see, interesting that we have now moved our parameter of the actual dates for the Mr Beale of the Papers so far out that it has become possible to include all that bare the name in the 19th century ...

The above Thomas J Beale was born in Botetourt county, same as Thomas Beale Sr who moved to New Orleans, as well as is son with Chloe Delancy of Botetourt county, Thomas Beale Jr, neither of which had a "J" as a middle name.
...and this Thomas J Beale did move to Missouri. Whether he wrote limericks or not, I don't know.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

The above Thomas J Beale was born in Botetourt county, same as Thomas Beale Sr who moved to New Orleans, as well as is son with Chloe Delancy of Botetourt county, Thomas Beale Jr, neither of which had a "J" as a middle name.
...and this Thomas J Beale did move to Missouri. Whether he wrote limericks or not, I don't know.

I agree you don't know !

 

[ECS]

Well, please tell us all about the missing "J" in Beale Sr and Jr's name.

 

[Old Silver]

It has never been proven that anything contained in the Beale Papers narrative occurred outside the parameters of that 1885 job pamphlet.

So there were no mines found 250-300 miles north of Santa Fe? There were no Indian massacres occurring during the time the Beale story said? There was no Robert Morriss who owned the Hotel in the story, who's name has been found spelled the exact way it was in the Beale story? You don't think ANYTHING contained in the Beale Papers narrative occurred?

 

[ECS]

In Beale's jan 4, 1822 letter to Morriss in the story, he states that
"the prosecution of the work ad been obtained from Sante Fe".
The only one who could grant this permit was governor Facuno Melsares, who was under orders to detain any and all Anglo-Americans who entered Spanish territory from Sante Fe to the Missouri and Red Rivers. Melsares captured and detained Zebulon Pike and there are Spanish records to that, but there is no mention of granting a permit to Thomas Beale.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, I DO think Pike's Peak GOLD Rush has an "impact" on the "Beale Expedition"...

 

[ECS]

So there were no mines found 250-300 miles north of Santa Fe? There were no Indian massacres occurring during the time the Beale story said? There was no Robert Morriss who owned the Hotel in the story, who's name has been found spelled the exact way it was in the Beale story? You don't think ANYTHING contained in the Beale Papers narrative occurred?

What are presenting is pure circumstantial speculation, that in NO WAY has a direct connection to the story contained in the 1885 Beale Papers narrative text.

 

[Old Silver]

In Beale's jan 4, 1822 letter to Morriss in the story, he states that
"the prosecution of the work ad been obtained from Sante Fe".
The only one who could grant this permit was governor Facuno Melsares, who was under orders to detain any and all Anglo-Americans who entered Spanish territory from Sante Fe to the Missouri and Red Rivers. Melsares captured and detained Zebulon Pike and there are Spanish records to that, but there is no mention of granting a permit to Thomas Beale.

"Everything necessary for our purposes and for the prosecution of the work had been obtained from Santa Fé..."

Sounds like tools to me. Where does it say permit?

 

[Old Silver]

What are presenting is pure circumstantial speculation, that in NO WAY has a direct connection to the story contained in the 1885 Beale Papers narrative text.

No, it is absolute proof that massacres did happen, and mines did exist 250-300 miles north of Santa Fe. Now whatever that might mean or not mean, the Beale story does say these things. That means, THAT PART of the Beale story is correct. It doesn't mean anything else, but it does mean that.

 

[ECS]

Or it means the Beale Papers author took that information from old newspaper articles.
The Beale Paper Indian massacre is not mentioned in the Beale Papers, but was speculatively hinted as an assumption.
The massacre comes from a medium the Harts employed, and is detailed in the HART PAPERS.

 

[Old Silver]

Or it means the Beale Papers author took that information from old newspaper articles.
The Beale Paper Indian massacre is not mentioned in the Beale Papers, but was speculatively hinted as an assumption.
The massacre comes from a medium the Harts employed, and is detailed in the HART PAPERS.

It's pretty clear you're not familiar with the Beale story. Yes, what I posted is indeed in the Beale story, regardless of what might be in the Hart papers. Untangle yourself.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, I DO think Pike's Peak GOLD Rush has an "impact" on the "Beale Expedition"...

The Beale PAPERS Pamphlet was published/released in 1885 (MAINLY in Lynchburg, Va.); Pike's Peak GOLD Rush begun in July, 1858.... "An estimated 100,000 GOLD seekers took part in one of the GREATEST gold Rushes in North American history" (Wiki). SO! Men from Lynchburg, Va. went WEST! Saw a "glint" of GOLD on a hill... a MINE was started in THAT area... THAT makes it POSSIBLE for MINING Gold, Silver, etc. and being utilized as ONE of the Beale PAPERS, for the "BP" Pamphlet. On Pike's Peak, in Colorado, AMERICA! "franklin" has MORE on this... IF!
He wants to "share"... BTW, EF Beale & "Crew" were "active" in 1858, too! Beale Wagon Road... HWY 66! WESTWARD HO!

 

[ECS]

No, it is absolute proof that massacres did happen, and mines did exist 250-300 miles north of Santa Fe. Now whatever that might mean or not mean, the Beale story does say these things. That means, THAT PART of the Beale story is correct. It doesn't mean anything else, but it does mean that.

Let's examine this logic:
Indian massacres happened
Indian massacres are mentioned in the Beale Papers
Therefore, the Beale story is correct

Mines existed 250-300 miles north of Santa Fe
Gold found north of Santa Fe was mentioned in the Beale Papers
Therefore the Beale story is correct

Do you not realize the fallacy in this logic?

 

[Old Silver]

Let's examine this logic:
Indian massacres happened
Indian massacres are mentioned in the Beale Papers
Therefore, the Beale story is correct

Mines existed 250-300 miles north of Santa Fe
Gold found north of Santa Fe was mentioned in the Beale Papers
Therefore the Beale story is correct

Do you not realize the fallacy in this logic?

Nope. You're not seeing what I posted, and why.
The Beale story is correct about the massacres at the very time of Beale, and THAT PART is proved. You stated there was no massacres in the Beal story, and clearly there are.
Same with the mines. They are spoken of in the story, so THAT PART of the story has been shown to be right.

 

[ECS]

Nope. You're not seeing what I posted, and why.
The Beale story is correct about the massacres at the very time of Beale, and THAT PART is proved. You stated there was no massacres in the Beal story, and clearly there are.
Same with the mines. They are spoken of in the story, so THAT PART of the story has been shown to be right.

FROM THE BEALE PAPERS:
"During this period rumors of Indian outrages and massacres were current, but no mention of Beale's name ever occurred. What became of him and his friends his companions is LEFT ENTIRELY TO CONJECTURE"
There is no mention of Beale being massacred in the Beale Papers that is your conjecture, unless of course, you have a different copy of the Beale Papers then the rest of us.
Once again, and it seems you have a very hard time understanding this concept, just because something is mentioned in a "story", one can not use that "story" as proof that the "story" is true.

 

[Old Silver]

ECS, stop baiting people. You've already got two threads locked, isn't that enough?
I have already explained what I've been talking about, so if you want to keep fighting everyone, you'll have to find a new target.

 

[ECS]

Are you sure is was not you who got those threads locked?
What's with this blame game?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

ECS, stop baiting people. You've already got two threads locked, isn't that enough?
I have already explained what I've been talking about, so if you want to keep fighting everyone, you'll have to find a new target.

Locked threads are not a problem, now all who reed them can see what I was saying without all of ECS's antics .