The Whole CSA HUGE Money Hoax

[bigscoop]

When the war broke out between north and south the south wanted to win. With just a fraction of the huge money that some seem to think the south "secretly had" they could have easily bought France into the war and won that war. The reality is simply this, the CSA was out financed and nearly completely broke by the end of the war. There is no huge secret CSA stash/stashes and there never has been or they would have used it. Period! They didn't enter that war to lose. They didn't surrender because they had money that could have been easily used to extend that war and even tilt things in their favor. Do you really think they would have stuck that huge war winning money just so they could fight an even financially stronger enemy at some later time? The south was desperate and losing that war was end game for the south. Period!

 

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[bigscoop]

It was not the South you are referring to as the "Confederate Government" it was the South known as the KGC. The KGC has controlled every war and actually caused every war the US has ever fought since the American Revolution. The KGC is still controlling our government today-----that is why the rich run and own everything. These treasures of the KGC are for the most part still hidden-----some has been used over the years but even more has been added. There are over 300 large KGC treasures buried in the US alone with hundreds more in other countries. DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING HISTORIANS TELL YOU---------I KNOW.

So you're saying the KGC didn't want the south to win the war? And, I gotta say, it would awfully difficult for the poor to run things, anything, and even if that were possible, bet they wouldn't remain poor for very long. "So of course the rich run everything." They always have. Just saying.....

PS: I seldom believe anything anyone tells me unless they have documentation to back it up.

 

[bigscoop]

I have documentation but it is not from any history book.

And the KGC apparently not wanting the south to win the war....what's up with that, exactly?

 

[VERDE]

Hey bigscoop!! Very interesting overview and topic!! Many issues certainly influence the outcomes of conflict!! Perhaps franklin could direct us to some of the long lost riches and we could start our own demise at the local Pub!! GOOD LUCK and GOOD HUNTING!! VERDE!!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! MY "take" is... that the SOUTH may have "lost", BUT! KGC became OAK (Order of AMERICAN Knights), LATE in the CONFEDERATE WAR... to include PEACE DEMOCRATS aka COPPERHEADS (anti-Lincoln "forces") in the NORTH, and the Confederate War STATE RIGHTS "movement" went WEST! OAK had the "expansion" Robber Barons (KGC HQ was in NYC), and WEALTHY men got Rail Roads going WEST; MEANWHILE... the original KGC (HARD-CORE Rebels/ex-Rebels like Jesse James,etc) robbed the Robber-Barons trains, banks, etc.; so it was KGC vs OAK. NOW! US ARMY was "after BOTH... BUT! U.S. Gov't "aided" the OAK Robber Barons... going after outlaws/ex-REB KGC with conclaves in MEXICO. TEXAS had a KGC ARMY ready to invade Mexico, then the CONFEDERATE WAR started in 1861 or so. KGC ARMY became REBS of Texas, singing... "Hurrah! Hurrah!.... Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag, that bears a SINGLE Star!" (of Texas) and SOUTH Carolina where THAT song "came from". There was a "link" between Texas, South Carolina, and Louisiana... a FRENCH "connection". In the "end", the "SOUTH" really DID win via "STATE RIGHTS" doctrine going WEST! "RICHES" were used to build up the WEST. MAINLY by OAK; with "control" starting in NYC (357) THIRD degree of KGC, composed of 5-7 RICH, WEALTHY men with POWER, after the CONFEDERATE WAR. KGC forced the move of HQ to Colorado Springs, Colorado; KGC/OAK then worked TOGETHER for STATE RIGHTS expansion, eventually... COFFEE...?

 

[bigscoop]

It was not the South you are referring to as the "Confederate Government" it was the South known as the KGC. The KGC has controlled every war and actually caused every war the US has ever fought since the American Revolution. The KGC is still controlling our government today-----that is why the rich run and own everything. These treasures of the KGC are for the most part still hidden-----some has been used over the years but even more has been added. There are over 300 large KGC treasures buried in the US alone with hundreds more in other countries. DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING HISTORIANS TELL YOU---------I KNOW.

"It was not the South you are referring to as the "Confederate Government" it was the South known as the KGC. The KGC is still controlling our government today-----that is why the rich run and own everything."

So then, the rich KGC of the North and the rich KGC of the south were fighting each other and the rich KGC of the south didn't want to win? Also sounds to me like you're suggesting all the rich and influential were & are KGC? So the Forbes 500 richest and influential men in the world today are all KGC? Bill Gates is KGC? etc., etc., etc.? So the KGC has always secretly been going to war with itself so it can control everything? Can you please explain this paradox.

 

[bigscoop]

"Also sounds to me like you're suggesting all the rich and influential were & are KGC? So the Forbes 500 richest and influential men in the world today are all KGC? Bill Gates is KGC? etc., etc., etc.? So the KGC has always secretly been going to war with itself so it can control everything that they already control? Can you please explain this paradox."

 

[bigscoop]

Even with all the world's riches the 500 forbes group as you call them------they still have to manipulate governments and that is the people. Control the people and you control the world.

So the KGC decides, just as they always have, who is a free country and who isn't? They decide what religions can exist and which ones can't. They determine who is a dictator and who isn't? The KGC decides all of this? The KGC created Hitler for a reason, etc.? And why is all of this KGC wealth only hidden in America and apparently in the south, or in those "southern" states?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So the KGC decides, just as they always have, who is a free country and who isn't? They decide what religions can exist and which ones can't. They determine who is a dictator and who isn't? The KGC decides all of this? The KGC created Hitler for a reason, etc.? And why is all of this KGC wealth only hidden in America and apparently in the south, or in those "southern" states?

LOL! It's an ILLUMINATI thing; you wouldn't understand...

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! It's an ILLUMINATI thing; you wouldn't understand...

You got that right. I'm going to the beach, then to the Tiki bar.

 

[ECS]

When the war broke out between north and south the south wanted to win. With just a fraction of the huge money that some seem to think the south "secretly had" they could have easily bought France into the war and won that war. The reality is simply this, the CSA was out financed and nearly completely broke by the end of the war. There is no huge secret CSA stash/stashes and there never has been or they would have used it. Period! They didn't enter that war to lose. They didn't surrender because they had money that could have been easily used to extend that war and even tilt things in their favor. Do you really think they would have stuck that huge war winning money just so they could fight an even financially stronger enemy at some later time? The south was desperate and losing that war was end game for the south. Period!

The Confederate States had a $20 million dollar war chest in the beginning,with loans from Britain,France,and Mexico,also from what was seized at the Dalonega,Charlotte,and New Orleans US MINTS,and from the banks in Richmond,and Southern belles donating their jewerly.As the war progressed,it was financed on loans based of cotton sales.
After the fall of Richmond,April 2,1865,the CSA Treasury remains made its way to Danville,Va,Chennault's Plantation in Washington,Ga,what President Davis had when he was captured,what CSA Capt John Taylor Wood bribed a Yankee guard with so he could join up with CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin and CSA Sec of War John C Breckinridge on their flight through Florida,giving Palatka CSA spy,Lola Sanchez 500 Mexican silver dollars while on their way to Ocala,and what the Union captured at Yulee's Cottonwood Plantation in Archer,Florida.
So there were some remaing assets of the Confederate Treasury after the War.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

What about the $15 Million dollar loan from England in the Fall of 1864 or the $150 Million Dollar loan from France. Also the CSA Government raised in one form or another almost $2 Billion Dollars to finance the Southern Cause.

WHEW!

 

[bigscoop]

Assets, sure there were remaining assets. But huge money? Certainly wasn't millions of dollars.

 

[el padron]

There is an institutionalized elite class for sure, they subtlety control everything but their "money" is not hidden or buried. It is constantly working and exists as a byproduct of the energy expended by its subjects that have cleverly been voluntarily enslaved.
Their means used to be rations, corporal punishment, sleep deprivation, phycological control and very occasionally terror

Today they take the form of mortgages, car notes, educational agendas, drugs, price controls, pop culture, technological holdbacks, and new Toyotas, just to name a few…..

 

[bigscoop]

Do you have any documentation to back up your claim?

LOL....I was thinking you would go there. Are you talking, "real documentation?" Look Franklin, there is no existing "real documentation" to support the notion that the CSA/KGC had/has millions upon millions of dollars at the end of the war. None whatsoever. And as el padron points out, they certainly don't have it buried in secret all over the southern United States.

 

[bigscoop]

Depends on what you call documentation? If you are looking for something in Judah Benjamin's handwriting, NO. He was over the Secret Service and he had all destroyed. Except for what was stored in the minds and memories of some of his members and they wrote it down. Where? Well you will have to search like I did but I found my proof now you go find yours.

In other words, you agree, that there is no real documentation supporting any of it. This then reduces everything to just a personal theory, or just a suggested theory, but not as supported fact. All I'm saying is this....you will NEVER get a credible resource to believe a word of it without that real documentation. All else will forever remain he-said-she-said and simple myth that others will latch onto and forever embellish and distort to even new heights. All this being said, this is why & how these CSA & KGC & Templar myths and legends survive and grow. Yet after all these years nobody can prove any of it. At some point you have to wonder why?

 

[bigscoop]

I can prove everything-----the US Government will not give me a chance to prove anything. Enough said, you can believe what you want--I know what I know.

Because you have no real documentation supporting any of it. That's the whole point. All you can prove to them is what YOU believe but this in no way makes it fact.

 

[gollum]

Because you have no real documentation supporting any of it. That's the whole point. All you can prove to them is what YOU believe but this in no way makes it fact.

Scoopie,

I like to look in on this subject

1. Because I am from the South
2. Because in one of my areas of expertise (Colonial Jesuit Mines and Caches), we have a lot of the same issues.

There is a very simple explanation for a lack of documentation of great hordes of money. I will use my specialty as the first example:

1. People hunting treasures that had access to archives have stolen many of the old maps and documents that could prove such things exist.

2. Even before those documents may have been stolen from archives, the Jesuits themselves were instructed under Ecclesiastical Precept (Holy Law) to both write letters in code, and to destroy any letters that may reflect badly on the order:

Here are a couple of quotes from Father Charles Polzer SJ' book "Rules and Precepts of Jesuit Missions in Northwestern New Spain:

"#17: Inasmuch as possible Ours will avoid writing letters to Ours complaining about the laity. If a letter has to be written, let it be so done that, even if lost or opened, the person about whom the letter was written could not understand it. The same caution is to be observed when writing the Provincial about THINGS THAT MUST BE DEALT WITH SECRETLY BECAUSE EXPERIENCE HAS SHOWN THE CONTRARY PRACTICE CREATES GRAVE INCONVENIENCES”

In the matter of writing and keeping letters many serious improprieties have been observed. Since, as we are mortals, the written word remains, letters can serve as the father of rumors and the seedbed of discord. Wherefore, I beseech you in the busom of Jesus Christ, THAT WHOEVER HAS SUCH LETTERS WILL HEREUPON BURN THEM (AS OTHERS HAVE ALREADY DONE). In the future, the Fathers should take a careful look at what they are writing because LITTERA SCRIPTA MANET and they can break charity apart in various ways which is something we should take very much to heart in our Society which is after all a society of love.

THAT WHOEVER HAS SUCH LETTERS WILL HEREUPON BURN THEM (AS OTHERS HAVE ALREADY DONE)​

LITTERA SCRIPTA MANET​

What does that mean my little snowflakes? NO FAIR GOOGLING! Okay, I'll tell. It means:

It is a part of a very old Latin Phrase "VOX AUDITA PERIT, LITTERA SCRIPTA MANET" translated as "The Spoken Word Perishes, The Written Word Remains"

NOW, is there anybody who doesn't understand why there are no or VERY FEW extant documents that speak of Jesuit Mining or any sort of Intrigues? ANYBODY?

No, it's very simple. We have one Ecclesiastical Precept that says "Whenever a letter has to be written about a sensitive subject, do it in code, and another that came later (this could only be because a lot of Priests were not encoding their letters, and even keeping them. This scared the living crap out of the Jesuit Leaders in Spain and Rome, so they issued another Ecclesiastical Precept that BESEECHES them to "burn any such letters (as others have already done)"


This should give everybody an idea of why there is no documentation of Confederate Wealth sitting around waiting for some internet researcher to find. The South knew that the North was getting close, and they didn't want them getting the loot for a number of reasons. Any documentation regarding their wealth was either destroyed or hidden. There may be some people that actually have the documentation you are looking for. You will not see them posting any of those documents for your benefit on any forums. Just like Spanish, Jesuit, KGC, and other sources of real treasure caches, the very few people that have that documentation hold it close to their chests. All the rest of us can do, is go the long way around to come to our conclusions, and believe what we believe.

Scooper, likely as not, you will never see the documents you ask about. Most of the people that say "they know for a fact" don't. They firmly believe that what they think is true. Unlike Spanish Shipwrecks, they were unfortunate, but never had anything to hide. That is why those records are still in the Archivo de los Indios and in Seville, and in Mexico City, etc. Nobody had anything to hide at the time. The same cannot be said for the Confederate Government and the Jesuit Order.

So, if you choose not to believe, then that is just fine. Don't. If others choose to believe, then that is fine too. I just ask that you don't blindly believe or disbelieve. Do the research. You will find inconsistencies in reports. You will find documents referred to in other documents that are missing (but should be there). You will find statements by people after the fact in their published journals that refer to what you seek. If you look hard enough, you WILL find what you want. THEN make your decisions on what to believe.

Good Luck - Mike

 

[ECS]

What about the $15 Million dollar loan from England in the Fall of 1864 or the $150 Million Dollar loan from France. Also the CSA Government raised in one form or another almost $2 Billion Dollars to finance the Southern Cause.

That loan money did not leave the countries of origin,but instead acted as a "line of credit" against future cotton and other goods shipment from the Confederate South.England and France industries were paid by their respective governments to supply the CSA with warships,munitions,and other tools of the war trade.
While the Confederacy did sell bonds and accept the jewelry from the ladies of the South,it was nowhere near $2 Billion Dollars.The CSA currency was backed of a promise of the CSA winning the War.
The 14th Amendment,Section 4 of the US Constitution addressed the issue of the Confederacy's lack of funds at War's end-the United States was not responcible for and would not pay the debts incured by loans to the CSA.
While the remaing treasury did leave Richmond after the Fall,April 2,1865,it was well under $500,000,and a good portion of that was recovered by Union forces.

 

[bigscoop]

Scoopie,

I like to look in on this subject

1. Because I am from the South
2. Because in one of my areas of expertise (Colonial Jesuit Mines and Caches), we have a lot of the same issues.

There is a very simple explanation for a lack of documentation of great hordes of money. I will use my specialty as the first example:

1. People hunting treasures that had access to archives have stolen many of the old maps and documents that could prove such things exist.

2. Even before those documents may have been stolen from archives, the Jesuits themselves were instructed under Ecclesiastical Precept (Holy Law) to both write letters in code, and to destroy any letters that may reflect badly on the order:

Here are a couple of quotes from Father Charles Polzer SJ' book "Rules and Precepts of Jesuit Missions in Northwestern New Spain:

THAT WHOEVER HAS SUCH LETTERS WILL HEREUPON BURN THEM (AS OTHERS HAVE ALREADY DONE)​

LITTERA SCRIPTA MANET​

What does that mean my little snowflakes? NO FAIR GOOGLING! Okay, I'll tell. It means:

It is a part of a very old Latin Phrase "VOX AUDITA PERIT, LITTERA SCRIPTA MANET" translated as "The Spoken Word Perishes, The Written Word Remains"

NOW, is there anybody who doesn't understand why there are no or VERY FEW extant documents that speak of Jesuit Mining or any sort of Intrigues? ANYBODY?

No, it's very simple. We have one Ecclesiastical Precept that says "Whenever a letter has to be written about a sensitive subject, do it in code, and another that came later (this could only be because a lot of Priests were not encoding their letters, and even keeping them. This scared the living crap out of the Jesuit Leaders in Spain and Rome, so they issued another Ecclesiastical Precept that BESEECHES them to "burn any such letters (as others have already done)"


This should give everybody an idea of why there is no documentation of Confederate Wealth sitting around waiting for some internet researcher to find. The South knew that the North was getting close, and they didn't want them getting the loot for a number of reasons. Any documentation regarding their wealth was either destroyed or hidden. There may be some people that actually have the documentation you are looking for. You will not see them posting any of those documents for your benefit on any forums. Just like Spanish, Jesuit, KGC, and other sources of real treasure caches, the very few people that have that documentation hold it close to their chests. All the rest of us can do, is go the long way around to come to our conclusions, and believe what we believe.

Scooper, likely as not, you will never see the documents you ask about. Most of the people that say "they know for a fact" don't. They firmly believe that what they think is true. Unlike Spanish Shipwrecks, they were unfortunate, but never had anything to hide. That is why those records are still in the Archivo de los Indios and in Seville, and in Mexico City, etc. Nobody had anything to hide at the time. The same cannot be said for the Confederate Government and the Jesuit Order.

So, if you choose not to believe, then that is just fine. Don't. If others choose to believe, then that is fine too. I just ask that you don't blindly believe or disbelieve. Do the research. You will find inconsistencies in reports. You will find documents referred to in other documents that are missing (but should be there). You will find statements by people after the fact in their published journals that refer to what you seek. If you look hard enough, you WILL find what you want. THEN make your decisions on what to believe.

Good Luck - Mike

Agreed 100%. But as you are well aware, you have to also consider the sources intrusted. And I know full well what you mean by "references to documents that are missing". The big difference you speak of here is that you have very credible sources making those references.

As for the CSA and "Huge Money" however, I think ECS has drawn a pretty clear diagram as to the actual circumstances. A lot of people are under the impression that "loan" means cash, when it most cases it means/meant credit. There is also a huge difference in the smuggling of contraband minerals/wealth VS loans based on a system on credit. But I do appreciate what you're saying. I just don't believe it applies in this particular case.