The Treasure of Captain William Kidd.

[Randawg72]

hello
In my opinion, every story has a hidden secret inside it that proves its truth, you have to follow this story to discover the facts.
Don't let yourself think that something will hurt you
I have personally made several trips to ancient sites without success.

Hi Persian Warrior,
The story I'm following is only 327 years old. I'm sure ancient facts are a lot harder to find and verify. I believe tenacity is key. You just have to keep researching until you get "Lucky".

 

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[ISmellGold]

What EXACTLY Does "Captain Kidds Supposed Treasure" consist of anyways?
If it's supposedly the contents of some moguls ship off the coast of India. Most likely the ship wouldn't of had Gold & Silver on it.
So what's the hullaballoo all about?

The story as reported doesn't make sense.

 

[Randawg72]

Hi ISG,
The 'currency' of the era was gold, silver, precious gems. Stuff like that.
Just like Kidd left on Gardiner's Island. ..Only a Lot more of it.

(You might review posts #161, and #188).

 

[ISmellGold]

Hi ISG,
The 'currency' of the era was gold, silver, precious gems. Stuff like that.
Just like Kidd left on Gardiner's Island. ..Only a Lot more of it.

(You might review posts #161, and #188).

Those Trade ships from India were mostly filled with products, not Gold & Silver and Gems.
The "Gold, Silver & Gem ships" of the time were basically comming from South America, not India. So if that ship is the only big one he took, there is no treasure to be found.
😁

Unless that ship was English? With Gold, Silver & Jewels being sent to India for merchandise?
It is said the Captain was English, with French Passes?
Interesting,
The East India Company is mentioned in some Kidd lore.
Possibly a Private Merchant Voyage finnanced by the East India Company.
They were probably just starting to be big with the Establishment of the Bank Of England in 1694?
Does anybody know where Kidd originally set sail from? New York, England, Or the Caribbean, and what port did he return to?

 

[Randawg72]

I know!, I know!.. Captain Kidd set sail from London on April 6, 1696
and returned to Oyster Bay New York on June 9, 1699.

(Note: The Quedagh Merchant was an Armenian ship, owned by an Indian man named Coirgi).

 

[ISmellGold]

I know!, I know!.. Captain Kidd set sail from London on April 6, 1696
and returned to Oyster Bay New York on June 9, 1699.

(Note: The Quedagh Merchant was an Armenian ship, owned by an Indian man named Coirgi).

View attachment 2190262

You do realize that route & Itinery makes no sense.

 

[Randawg72]

No.
(But I'm betting that you think so.)

 

[Randawg72]

Captain Kidd's cannon..

One of the 26 cannons discovered in the wreck of the Quedagh Merchant. It was retrieved and donated to the Children’s Museum of Indianapolis by the government of the Dominican Republic.

The ship was abandoned by Kidd in 1699 and was found in 2007 just 70 feet off of the coast of Catalina Island. The cannon is made of iron and weighs 1,500 lbs. The muzzle is 11 inches in diameter, and the length of the cannon is nearly seven feet long.

 

[Bocaj]

The ship was abandoned by Kidd in 1699 and was found in 2007 just 70 feet off of the coast of Catalina Island.

He didn't abandon the ship. He left with a sloop to negotiate its return. He was thrown into jail instead but his plan was to go back, sell whatever was still not sold and take the proceedings of what the crew and the fence had sold already. This was his plan but the crew sold what they could sell, burned the ship and turned their tails.

The Gardners island part was also gone.

So he either invented some other treasure or had real knowledge of one to safe his skin. A truly desperate move. It seems he could not convince the crown of its authenticity. He had to play a difficult game of 'I can't tell where it is bc you would just hang me if I did'. Bit of poker and we maybe we will never know the hand he played.

 

[Randawg72]

He didn't abandon the ship. He left with a sloop to negotiate its return. He was thrown into jail instead but his plan was to go back, sell whatever was still not sold and take the proceedings of what the crew and the fence had sold already. This was his plan but the crew sold what they could sell, burned the ship and turned their tails.
The Gardners island part was also gone.

Well, Kidd did ask the conniving merchant Henry Bolton to look after it. So.. "potato, potahto".
And it's common knowledge that Bellomont retrieved the Gardiners island stash and used it as evidence at Kidd's trial.

So he either invented some other treasure or had real knowledge of one to safe his skin. A truly desperate move. It seems he could not convince the crown of its authenticity. He had to play a difficult game of 'I can't tell where it is bc you would just hang me if I did'. Bit of poker and we maybe we will never know the hand he played.

That's the 64 dollar question isn't it? The court already had enough evidence, and the King and Indian Mughal's were anxious to hang someone as a "Pirate". Maybe the treasure will be found one day and finally exonerate Kidd from bluffing his last hand.

 

[Bocaj]

And it's common knowledge that Bellomont retrieved the Gardiners island stash and used it as evidence at Kidd's trial.

That's what I meant - it was gone as leverage...

That's the 64 dollar question isn't it? The court already had enough evidence, and the King and Indian Mughal's were anxious to hang someone as a "Pirate". Maybe the treasure will be found one day and finally exonerate Kidd from bluffing his last hand.

My gut-feeling tells me he wasn't bluffing but that's all I can rely on. Many have exploited that story, many spend all their time and wealth on it. If he tried to take revenge on the world for generations to come then he really succeeded!!

 

[Bocaj]

Hello Bocaj, Randang72, Ismellgold

I have sent the image to Christie's map expert. British library. and expert on 18th century maps for their opinion and insight and feedback on the matter. three different specialist in 18th century maps.

We will see if they reply? If they reply at all?


Crow

Any reply yet?

Can't really blame them. I have seen them as fake before I come across the letter you posted...

 

[Crow]

Hello Bocaj

The Christie's map expert Did not show any interest at all?

The British Museum

I contacted Dr Gethin Rees and got a reply on Sat, Jan 25, 2:28 AM (8 days ago) to me

Do try tom.harper Best of luck getting to the bottom of this!
Best, Gethin

Dr Gethin Rees

Lecturer in Digital Products and Industries Department of Digital Humanities King's College London | Strand Campus | WC2R 2LS

I then contacted and sent the map to Tom Harper head curator of Map room in the British Library as map collection from the British museum now comes under the British Library.

Thank you for the question. As you may have seen, the Vinland map has generated a great deal of literature, and no little controversy since its 'discovery'. So much so, that it can be rather difficult to isolate its original context from any subsequent ones it has been associated with. I would therefore prefer not to inform you of my opinion but urge you to investigate the published literature, using perhaps, as a starting point, the short but balanced entry for the Vinland Map in the 'History of Cartography' series, available as free PDFs here The History of Cartography, Volume 6: Cartography in the Twentieth Century

Regarding the authenticity of other supposedly old maps 'discovered' in the 20th century, I would apply the same healthy scepticism as has been applied to the Vinland map.



I hope that this is helpful to your research, and thank you once again for getting in touch with us.

Best wishes

Tom Harper

( Note some how I feel I have had reply from sir Humphrey Appleby From the TV series Yes Minster. Officially telling you some thing without actually telling you some thing. )

Crow

 

[Randawg72]

I'm not surprised by their reply. The Vinland Map was proved fake by containing 20th century ink. The Forensic science of dating ink and paper was introduced in the 1930's. While the actual Kidd charts were found to be authentic during the 30's and again in the 50's, I didn't think an esteemed expert would venture a guess based on a photo.
I suppose we will have to accept "healthy skepticism" as cautious advice until the charts resurface for proper testing.

 

[Bocaj]

Hello Bocaj

The Christie's map expert Did not show any interest at all?

The British Museum

I contacted Dr Gethin Rees and got a reply on Sat, Jan 25, 2:28 AM (8 days ago) to me

Do try tom.harper Best of luck getting to the bottom of this!
Best, Gethin

Dr Gethin Rees

Lecturer in Digital Products and Industries Department of Digital Humanities King's College London | Strand Campus | WC2R 2LS

I then contacted and sent the map to Tom Harper head curator of Map room in the British Library as map collection from the British museum now comes under the British Library.

Thank you for the question. As you may have seen, the Vinland map has generated a great deal of literature, and no little controversy since its 'discovery'. So much so, that it can be rather difficult to isolate its original context from any subsequent ones it has been associated with. I would therefore prefer not to inform you of my opinion but urge you to investigate the published literature, using perhaps, as a starting point, the short but balanced entry for the Vinland Map in the 'History of Cartography' series, available as free PDFs here The History of Cartography, Volume 6: Cartography in the Twentieth Century

Regarding the authenticity of other supposedly old maps 'discovered' in the 20th century, I would apply the same healthy scepticism as has been applied to the Vinland map.



I hope that this is helpful to your research, and thank you once again for getting in touch with us.

Best wishes

Tom Harper

( Note some how I feel I have had reply from sir Humphrey Appleby From the TV series Yes Minster. Officially telling you some thing without actually telling you some thing. )

Crow

Thanks a lot for your effort. At least they did answer and did see it as a valid inquiry. Which is more than I expected. So all we have are low-res images (anyone who got some better ones?) that are difficult to verify.

I can truly not say anything apart that I keep my skepticism without abandoning the chase. What I got quite clearly is that Kidd could not have that treasure on his own and the letter you posted has many similarities to the charts. What could have happened that someone knowing the letter draw the maps accordingly. But why would he not simply claim them to be Avery's treasure instead of Kidd's?

Well I get a bit tired of endless speculations. I will setup an expedition to sail with a few vessels to Madagascar - doing the 'Pirate Round' and see what we find on the way. Maybe some likes to join the 'Treasure Fleet'?

 

[Randawg72]

I don't believe in the Beale ciphers, the golden city of El Dorado, or that there was ever any treasure on Oak Island. I also believe Oswald shot Kennedy (..Alone).
But I do think that the Kidd treasure could, and actually does exist. I also believe that a few of the 18K viewers of this thread (so far) may agree with me.
My research has only strengthened this belief, and I hope that I can someday visit 'Yunnan' Island and search for it myself.

 

[ISmellGold]

I don't believe in the Beale ciphers, the golden city of El Dorado, or that there was ever any treasure on Oak Island. I also believe Oswald shot Kennedy (..Alone).
But I do think that the Kidd treasure could, and actually does exist. I also believe that a few of the 18K viewers of this thread (so far) may agree with me.
My research has only strengthened this belief, and I hope that I can someday visit 'Yunnan' Island and search for it myself.

Yunnan Island

Good Luck