The Templar Fortress of Mystery?

[BillA]

you guys are preaching to the choir

I'll bite Crow, send me the info to review and discuss, then 100 pages

 

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[Crow]

Could you give an old french document to test ?

Gidday Sasquash

Not a bad idea.

Here is part of letter by King Phillip IV of France in 1308.

Key words (Trésor des Templiers ) Old french had no word for "treasury" other than
Trésor



Crow

 

[BillA]

Wow, really difficult, am trying to read but know no French of any kind
Does this even have the key words?
Will look again...
offer on hold, lol

edit: hopeless, no idea what I'm looking for
need more info Crow
contact info sent

 

[Crow]

Gidday amigo you can save it and enlarge it. But as you can see that is not so easy. There are 257 documents to search in this batch alone.

QUITTANCES ET PIECES DIVERSES : mandements royaux, quittances, mémoires, comptes, etc., classés chronologiquement depu

RELEASES AND MISCELLANEOUS DOCUMENTS: royal orders, receipts, memorials, accounts, etc., classified chronologically since 1308

Seeking references to Templars is no easy task.

That is why all the trios eyes suffer from intense examination of documents. Even when a word comes up it might be only a vague passing reference. However thats the lot for those daring to seek amigo.

Still its kind of cool ya looking at a document from 1308.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is another sample.

In context to the subject of this thread Anne of France. 15th century old french. Buy the 15 century hand written books became the norm. In the 13th century it was more just loose parchments.

This document pertains Anne of France Anne de Beaujeu; 3 April 1461 – 14 November 1522 and her fortune. Once again we are using word search Trésor des Templiers as a key word search.



Crow

 

[BillA]

end of 1st line, but no tresor
?

edit: I assume a scribe transcribed these?
How many different scribes contributed to this collection?
Is the alphabet of each similar?
have a bit of knowledge of Latin, Italian, and Spanish - but this is difficult

 

[Crow]

end of 1st line, but no tresor
?

That is the general gist of how such a search would work. But you can now see how complex and time consuming one or two people would have?

Where we have a cluster of key words it will give an indication that an account regarding the fate of the Templar treasury. Or case information pertaining to Anne's alleged search of the castle for Templar treasure?

Crow

 

[Crow]

Its late and old Crow needs to roost yet amigo you can see how hard such searches are?

Crow

 

[BillA]

7am here, I'll go sand a tree trunk

 

[Crow]

One thing amigos to be aware of in France anything considered from that time period is cultural patrimony. An antiquity is an ancient artifact or item dating from the middle ages and earlier. So one has no chance in hell of ever been able to claim Templar treasure as treasure trove in the financial sense.

It should be noted these terms are used very fluid in terminology in different countries.

An item should be at least 100 years old to be defined as an antique. Generally speaking if the item is no older than an antique but not less than 20 years, it falls under the term vintage. I have heard the term 'true vintage' as being at least 50 years old. Retro between 20 and 50 years. An antiquity is an ancient artifact or item dating from the middle ages and earlier.

But once again definitions are rather fluid as some cultural artifacts from south America fall out of general definition of An antiquity is an ancient artifact or item dating from the middle ages and earlier. Because many artifacts creep up into 16th 17th centuries falling into definition of Antiquity.

Because of that UNESCO has a clause in their definition. Any movable or immovable object as provided for in Clause "a" of this definition which dates back after AD 1750. In general the cut off date of antiquity and antique at most about three hundred years old, and usually far less.

So for items such as this below. 1780 would fall into antique.



Thus legal status is very different in regards to Antiquity.

So the incentive to devote much time in a business sense searching for Templar treasure is not a practical one.

However if ones passion and interest is more an academic one in finding real documents pertaining to the fate Templars treasury? Then searching through documents below may be a fruitful one?



Crow

 

[BillA]

Hi Crow, need an upper and lower case alphabet of what was typical script

edit: hmm, I bought a (hand forged, 80 bucks - but beautiful) shovel in France and never thought for an instant about the antiquities category
edit 2: not so clear, was digging with the shovel
edit 3: got 8 hrs in sanding, now back to the UFC
lol

 

[Crow]

Gidday Amigo.

Try this.



But please remember that is a basic script.

Crow

 

[KANACKI]

Hola Amigos

Looking at the actual trial documents taken from the torture of 72 Templar knights



There are several pages. In all the confessions there is no confession of hidden Templar treasury.

Interesting?

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

when was the first reference to a hidden, or missing, treasure/treasury?
and by whom?

I am a novice to this fable.

 

[BillA]

Gidday Amigo.

Try this.

View attachment 1903902

But please remember that is a basic script.

Crow

CAPS might be more useful but I suspect that the embellishments vary from scribe to scribe.

Took a look at Kanacki's doc and could not read, not flat when scanned.
less sure I can contribute

 

[KANACKI]

Hola Bill

That is the key question amigo.

Crow posted the following:

There is an old book in the reference library of the university of Michigan. Called the Knights Templars by Charles Greenstreet Addison published London in 1852. that gives an indication of what treasure was brought back from Cyprus.



The good thing about this book it gives references to sources citations. Many refer to Latin texts and Cannon documents from charters cathedral in France. Parts of the book are written in French and Papal Latin bulls as per source of the information.

The good thing about this book it gives references to sources citations. Many refer to Latin texts and Cannon documents from charters cathedral in France. Parts of the book are written in French and Papal Latin bulls as per source of the information.

The Good thing because we found

Inventaire des CHARTES DU TRESOR du Roy estant en la Saincte Chapelle du Palais à Paris, faict par Messieurs DUPUY et GODEFROY,

There is 555 pages of inventories while inventories are decribed are itemized they are not dated in order.



So amigo still a pretty big search.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki, where were these items when inventoried?

seem to be 2 issues: what individuals may have hidden and what an organization may have hidden
just because the Templars made a large loan does not imply hidden hoards
the Medici and Venicians made huge loans as well (always dangerous)

 

[KANACKI]

Hi Kanacki, where were these items when inventoried?

seem to be 2 issues: what individuals may have hidden and what an organization may have hidden
just because the Templars made a large loan does not imply hidden hoards
the Medici and Venicians made huge loans as well (always dangerous)

Hola Bill

We have Cannon documents from charters cathedral in France. As well as Papal Latin bulls as per source of the information given. But not exactly sure and we hesitant to hypothesis too much without making sure we have found all we possibly can.

Our guess is leaning towards stories of missing Templar treasure was an 18th century invention as Freemason societies spread across Europe and wanted to promote themselves with mystical origins of Templars and mystical treasure.

We suspect this was beginning to happen around 1760. Later author embellished each others works blending Freemason mythology and Templar together.

However we are open in finding the source of the claims of 1852 book. As a starting point.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Hola Amigo its late....

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hola Bill

We have Cannon documents from charters cathedral in France. As well as Papal Latin bulls as per source of the information given. But not exactly sure and we hesitant to hypothesis too much without making sure we have found all we possibly can.

Our guess is leaning towards stories of missing Templar treasure was an 18th century invention as Freemason societies spread across Europe and wanted to promote themselves with mystical origins of Templars and mystical treasure.

We suspect this was beginning to happen around 1760. Later author embellished each others works blending Freemason mythology and Templar together.

However we are open in finding the source of the claims of 1852 book. As a starting point.

Kanacki

Hi Kanacki, informative response, the hot air balloon referred to earlier seems alive