The Swiss Factor

[Dano Sverige]

I've never understood the American pro-gunners and NRA's persistance with throwing Switzerland out as a wonderful example of how lots of guns means very low crime! While undoubtedly it obviously has some good effect, which can't be denied, it puzzles me how the Swiss have lots of guns and little crime (we'll forget yesterdays shooting there) while the USA has lots of guns and lots of crime.
Maybe this will explain why there's so large a difference:

1/ The regulation of guns in Switzerland is categorised as restrictive.

2/ Guns in Switzerland are regulated by the Federal Legislative Authority.

3/ In Switzerland, the right to private gun ownership is guaranteed by law.

4/ In Switzerland, civilians are not allowed to possess automatic firearms, some automatic firearms converted into semi-automatic firearms, incendiary or armour-piercing ammunition, and 'expansive projectiles for handguns.

5/ Private possesion of fully automatic weapons is prohibited.Private possesion of semi-automatic assault weapons is permitted under licence. Private possesion of handguns is permitted under licence.

6/ In Switzerland, some 'manual repetition rifles' for sport and hunting may be owned without a licence, but in other cases only licensed gun owners may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition.

7/ Applicants for a gun owners licence are required to PROVE genuine reason to possess a firearm.

8/ An applicant for a firearms licence MUST PASS background checks, which consider mental,criminal and domestic violence records.

9/ Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists,the law stipulates that a firearms licence should be denied or revoked.

10/Gun owners MUST re-apply and re-qualify for their firearms licence every 5 years.

11/Swiss authorities maintain a record of individual civilians who are licenced to aquire,possess,sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition.

12/The law REQUIRES that a record of the aquisition,possession and transfer of EACH PRIVATELY HELD FIREARM be retained in an official register.

13/Licenced firearms dealers are required to keep a record of EACH firearm or ammunition purchase,sale or transfer.

14/State agencies are required to maintain records of the storage and movement of all firearms and ammunition under their control.Military and civilian.

15/The buyer of a firearm in a private sale is obliged to pass official background checks before taking possession.

16/The private sale and transfer of firearms is prohibited.

17/The number and type of firearms which can be sold by a licenced gun dealer to a single gun owner is limited to 1 (ONE) firearm per licence,(up to 3 with special authorization) and only persons authorized to own that gun may purchase ammunition for that particular firearm.

18/Firearm regulations include written specifications for the lawful safe storage of private firearms and ammunition.

19/A UNIQUE IDENTIFYING MARK ON EACH FIREARM IS REQUIRED BY LAW! State authorities carry out recognised arms tracing and tracking procedures.

20/Carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is allowed ONLY with proof of GENUINE need and TANGIBLE danger, following mental health,criminal record and good character background checks, and after passing a police examination in firearm law and handgun safety.


I think Americans will especially like 16, 17 and 19.

The above is why Switzerland works....and the US never will. So....please stop using the Swiss as your rally cry, you're just looking silly!

 

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[Dano Sverige]

No comments?..."Little things the NRA doesn't tell you about!" = Bit of a shock ain't it?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

England has more violent crime per 100,000 than the US............

Be careful with your knives, dont cut yourself...

Britons suffer 1,158,957 violent crimes per year, which works out at 2,034 per 100,000 residents. The U.S., meanwhile, has a rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, which is lower than France’s, at 504
​

Instead of gun crime, the UK worries about knife crime. And has been practicing knife control.
The UK outlawed the switchblade and gravity knife in 1959.
In 1988 possession of a pocket knife with a blade larger than 3 inches in public became illegal.
In 1996, it became illegal to sell a razor blade to anyone under the age of 16.
In 2007, you needed a license to be able to sell “non-domestic knives.”
Despite all that knifepoint robberies rose by 10 percent this year and there are some 60,000 stabbings each year. So the push is on to outlaw long kitchen knives. Once that’s done, surely utopia will be at hand.

A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase – and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.
They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.
They consulted 10 top chefs from around the UK, and found such knives have little practical value in the kitchen.
None of the chefs felt such knives were essential, since the point of a short blade was just as useful when a sharp end was needed.
The researchers say legislation to ban the sale of long pointed knives would be a key step in the fight against violent crime.
“We suggest that banning the sale of long pointed knives is a sensible and practical measure that would have this effect.”
​

Certainly no law-abiding person needs a long blade kitchen knife. No one is talking about outlawing all kitchen knives. Just the ones with long blades. No reason for anyone to go beyond a paring knife anyway.
The chefs say so and what does Julia Child know anyway.
Take a good look America. This is where we’re headed under liberal dominion.

British Doctors Call for Ban on Long Kitchen Knives to End Stabbings

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I've never understood the American pro-gunners and NRA's persistance with throwing Switzerland out as a wonderful example of how lots of guns means very low crime! While undoubtedly it obviously has some good effect, which can't be denied, it puzzles me how the Swiss have lots of guns and little crime (we'll forget yesterdays shooting there) while the USA has lots of guns and lots of crime.
Maybe this will explain why there's so large a difference:

1/ The regulation of guns in Switzerland is categorised as restrictive.

2/ Guns in Switzerland are regulated by the Federal Legislative Authority.

3/ In Switzerland, the right to private gun ownership is guaranteed by law.

4/ In Switzerland, civilians are not allowed to possess automatic firearms, some automatic firearms converted into semi-automatic firearms, incendiary or armour-piercing ammunition, and 'expansive projectiles for handguns.

5/ Private possesion of fully automatic weapons is prohibited.Private possesion of semi-automatic assault weapons is permitted under licence. Private possesion of handguns is permitted under licence.

6/ In Switzerland, some 'manual repetition rifles' for sport and hunting may be owned without a licence, but in other cases only licensed gun owners may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition.

7/ Applicants for a gun owners licence are required to PROVE genuine reason to possess a firearm.

8/ An applicant for a firearms licence MUST PASS background checks, which consider mental,criminal and domestic violence records.

9/ Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists,the law stipulates that a firearms licence should be denied or revoked.

10/Gun owners MUST re-apply and re-qualify for their firearms licence every 5 years.

11/Swiss authorities maintain a record of individual civilians who are licenced to aquire,possess,sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition.

12/The law REQUIRES that a record of the aquisition,possession and transfer of EACH PRIVATELY HELD FIREARM be retained in an official register.

13/Licenced firearms dealers are required to keep a record of EACH firearm or ammunition purchase,sale or transfer.

14/State agencies are required to maintain records of the storage and movement of all firearms and ammunition under their control.Military and civilian.

15/The buyer of a firearm in a private sale is obliged to pass official background checks before taking possession.

16/The private sale and transfer of firearms is prohibited.

17/The number and type of firearms which can be sold by a licenced gun dealer to a single gun owner is limited to 1 (ONE) firearm per licence,(up to 3 with special authorization) and only persons authorized to own that gun may purchase ammunition for that particular firearm.

18/Firearm regulations include written specifications for the lawful safe storage of private firearms and ammunition.

19/A UNIQUE IDENTIFYING MARK ON EACH FIREARM IS REQUIRED BY LAW! State authorities carry out recognised arms tracing and tracking procedures.

20/Carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is allowed ONLY with proof of GENUINE need and TANGIBLE danger, following mental health,criminal record and good character background checks, and after passing a police examination in firearm law and handgun safety.


I think Americans will especially like 16, 17 and 19.

The above is why Switzerland works....and the US never will. So....please stop using the Swiss as your rally cry, you're just looking silly!

Would not work in USA; knives have NOTHING to do with it... NRA "doing" knives, now...?

 

[releventchair]

Would you break in when some one with a gun is waiting? Insure no crime and be liable for any?
A friend who built guns had to put numbers on one eighteenth century replica to take it into another country. Of course it couldn,t be in an area that didn,t show. Thus putting a nice dent in value. Keep dogging the people trying to abide by the law. Nevermind a 3 can become an 8.
Nothing against the Swiss.

 

[G.I.B.]

One major city in the US has more of a population than the entire country of Switzerland.

Your comparisons are crude. Only 7.5 million people in the whole country.




Now, go get something to eat and relax a little will ya?

 

[0121stockpicker]

One major city in the US has more of a population than the entire country of Switzerland.

Your comparisons are crude. Only 7.5 million people in the whole country.

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=749411"/>

Now, go get something to eat and relax a little will ya?

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=749413"/>

GIB I think you miss the point of the post. Gun advocate often use Switzerland as an example of high gun ownership rates yet low crime. So is this example not a valid one given the small size of the country. Or is the argument just not valid when its viewed as anti gun. Obviously one can't have it both ways?

 

[G.I.B.]

It's comparing apples to oranges.

No matter who's doing the comparisons. This is not a valid example.

Small towns have less crime than big cities, per capita. Everyone knows everybody. Countries are just on a bigger scale.

And Dano is just a bit overly obsessed with our 2nd amendment. Let's see some of his finds instead...

 

[0121stockpicker]

It's comparing apples to oranges.

No matter who's doing the comparisons. This is not a valid example.

Small towns have less crime than big cities, per capita. Everyone knows everybody. Countries are just on a bigger scale.

And Dano is just a bit overly obsessed with our 2nd amendment. Let's see some of his finds instead...

Sure, I agree that's good to know. We should all make sure it's not used as an example by either side as it is really a poor argument on either side. I completely agree.

 

[releventchair]

Sure, picker. There's some validity. Compare it to a country where no guns allowed for non criminals.
Crime is going to happen regardless,its the ones that affect you directly that leaves you deterring or being a victim. Its great if you can just watch criminal take what's wanted if it fits your beliefs. Not so great if criminal wants more than valuables.
Guns deter crime in non criminal hands. Two weeks ago fellow down the road rather than wait for police(time does matter,ask a criminal)took a shotgun and flash lite to his neighbors garage. Two less believers in the neighborhood thinking its a good place to shop.
Letting them take what they want is not a way to stop thieves. Girlfriends daughter shot multiple times as was coworker with her. Left for dead. What law could stop that other than the right to be able to meet deadly force with the same? Want to disarm the criminals,please do. It will work as well as making me one and disarming me. So why keep seeking restrictions on current law abiding when existing laws are still not enforced? How exactly does the concept reduce criminal use of guns?

 

[Dano Sverige]

I see TH is totally lost for words again when confronted by the truth! lol.

GIB - As Stock pointed out, and lets be fair it's not rocket science because i even stated it at the top, The NRA and pro-gun gang throw the Swiss out as irrefutable proof that many guns means low crime. All i'm doing is show the real facts about why that really is.
It's not about knives. It's not about size. It's about the realities of why the Swiss are light years ahead of the US where "guns & crime" are concerned, and a debunking of a typical gun lobby battlecry!

I'm "obsessed" with your 2A because i happen to comment on a forum solely based on your 2A? Lol....i'm obsessed with the girls on your "spring break" trips too, but if there was a forum for it on here i'd still just be commenting because it was there!
It's mid-winter here. We look like Texas has the last couple of days. Would you go out metal detecting in that?

 

[G.I.B.]

Dano,

Your signature displays your obsession.

You post in other threads as well, and when your signature is 10 times more than your words...

It shows obsession, and a clever way to spread your personal political views of America into other threads.

If you can't detect, how about snow skiing or something...

Or maybe deal with the 40 percent increase in alcoholism by women in your country in the past 4 years.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I am still curious why your not spending your time and passion on England forums trying to save them from knives, so many violent attacks with knives they are talking banning all the large kitchen knives, I guess your fellow citizens are not worth saving to you. I guess after they save English subjects from the "assault" kitchen knives your government will next save you from the dreaded assault forks.

 

[releventchair]

Dano,

Your signature displays your obsession.

You post in other threads as well, and when your signature is 10 times more than your words...

It shows obsession, and a clever way to spread your personal political views of America into other threads.

If you can't detect, how about snow skiing or something...

Or maybe deal with the 40 percent increase in alcoholism by women in your country in the past 4 years.

Alcoholism kills. Of course its regulated to reduce abuse. Can,t acquire it if you are not supposed to,for your own protection. Ta da! Problem solved.

 

[Dano Sverige]

TH - please stay on topic. Thanks!

GIB - Seems once again you're too lazy to go find the explanation about my sig' pic' already posted, so a quick pointer. It signifies my OWN view that EVERYBODY has a right to be armed, but with limits and restrictions! That includes me. OK?
(Please don't do a TH on me and start whining about knives and dogs in fights, it's very tedious. You asked - i answered.)

I like drunk Swedish chicks, they do wonderful things!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

It's comparing apples to oranges.

No matter who's doing the comparisons. This is not a valid example.

Small towns have less crime than big cities, per capita. Everyone knows everybody. Countries are just on a bigger scale.

And Dano is just a bit overly obsessed with our 2nd amendment. Let's see some of his finds instead...

LOL! EVERYONE is OBSESSED with our 2nd Amendment!

 

[0121stockpicker]

Sure, picker. There's some validity. Compare it to a country where no guns allowed for non criminals.
Crime is going to happen regardless,its the ones that affect you directly that leaves you deterring or being a victim. Its great if you can just watch criminal take what's wanted if it fits your beliefs. Not so great if criminal wants more than valuables.
Guns deter crime in non criminal hands. Two weeks ago fellow down the road rather than wait for police(time does matter,ask a criminal)took a shotgun and flash lite to his neighbors garage. Two less believers in the neighborhood thinking its a good place to shop.
Letting them take what they want is not a way to stop thieves. Girlfriends daughter shot multiple times as was coworker with her. Left for dead. What law could stop that other than the right to be able to meet deadly force with the same? Want to disarm the criminals,please do. It will work as well as making me one and disarming me. So why keep seeking restrictions on current law abiding when existing laws are still not enforced? How exactly does the concept reduce criminal use of guns?

If guns deter crime in non criminal hands then why does the us have such a high homicide rate? Given the amount of guns in this country shouldn't we have one if the lowest?

I think you start off with a unproven premise which is that guns in non criminal hands stop crime.

And as you know anecdotal evidence is absolutely meaningless.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

TH - please stay on topic. Thanks!

GIB - Seems once again you're too lazy to go find the explanation about my sig' pic' already posted, so a quick pointer. It signifies my OWN view that EVERYBODY has a right to be armed, but with limits and restrictions! That includes me. OK?
(Please don't do a TH on me and start whining about knives and dogs in fights, it's very tedious. You asked - i answered.)

I like drunk Swedish chicks, they do wonderful things!

WHOO! I'm READY!

 

[G.I.B.]

WHOO! I'm READY!

Yea, the above is what is portrayed to influence public perception, but in reality during Midsummer it's much different~

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Alcoholism kills. Of course its regulated to reduce abuse. Can,t acquire it if you are not supposed to,for your own protection. Ta da! Problem solved.

HA! At ONE, alcohol was ILLEGAL in the USA; "Speak-Easys" were born. CRIME was RAMPART... The REAL Gangs in NYC... ELSEWHERE!