Good Afternoon
Recently Joe Ribaudo and Sarge reported to the forum that Tom Kollenburn has indicated to them that he knows who created the stone maps and has known so for many years. Given that this information is shared with only a few select individuals it is important that Mr. Kollenburn come clean on what he knows. If Sarge and Joe are right they deserve a pat on the back. Mr. Ribaudo has claimed:
"Tom has been saying for years that he believes the Stone Maps are a hoax. After writing that in the newspaper, his "friend" xxx called him on the phone and called him every name in the book. I believe he was also ridiculed on DUSA. Bottom line is, even someone as well respected as Tom will be publicly, as well as privately, ridiculed for voicing that kind of an opinion. Just look at what's happening here.
Many of the boasters here, are not worthy to clean his horse's stall.
You may all quote me on that"!
Joe Ribaudo
Given this then as Hal Croves has wisely stated:
"That is not the point. It does not matter how many would take Tom's word for it. The point is that the in telling the truth as he sees it, his public would have the chance to vet the story. Let us have the chance to do the research and to establish our own conclusions. Tom is a public figure who writes about history. Why would Tom share that story as a secret, between friends who post about it and not publicly? He has the perfect platform to set things straight, as he see it. Why not? That story obviously has been around for some time and the engraver must be long gone by now. (?)
This is the only part of the stone maps that I find unsettling.
Secrets and the paranoia that it feeds."
"One thing is clear, if Tom knows that name and knows without a doubt that they are an intentional hoax, he has a moral obligation to inform the public. I will not even comment on the legal exposure since I am not an attorney, although I play one on Halloween.
You are correct that "I" am owed nothing, especially by Tom, but as I believe him to be an honest and compassionate man, I chose to believe that his actions (or inaction) simply reflect a level of hope".
The following dialogue fleshes out some of the particulars.
Hello Hal,
Given the information that Humper and Sarge have provided there seems to be another candidate for the creator of the stone maps. If you look at what Kollenburn says in his 2009 Chronicles:
"Still other stories exist as to the origin of these notorious stone maps. Fifty years ago it was rumored that a cowboy who lived along Queen Creek carved the stone maps and buried them near Black Point to confuse treasure hunters. This old cowboy did a lot of stone work for Clemans Cattle Company at the old Upper Fraser Ranch known today as the Reavis Ranch. The story is that this old man was a stone engraver at a cemetery back East and gave up the job to become a cowboy in the West".
Now look at the statements of Humper and Sarge. While Kollenburn seems to hide the identity of the creator a bit there is enough the same in the accounts that if someone knows this individual paydirt may have been hit. Notice specifically the use of the term tombstone engraver and stone engraver/cemetary. That is probably a slip that points to the creator. Seems Kollenburn has known the creator of the maps for a good long time.
Maybe Humper and Sarge have given us the creator without having to come out from under their rock.
Mary
Hello Hal,
I checked Grannie`s papers and the phrase meant something else. Just a place in the Superstitions.
Sarge,
You just keep getting deeper and deeper. Why not just do the right thing and tell the truth. in 2009 Tom K. in the Kollenburn Chronicles writes 2 specific articles addressing the Stone Maps. In neither article does he suggest what you and Humper says is the truth instead he just runs through a list of possible creators of the maps and concludes:
"As you can see this is just another explanation for the infamous and notorious Peralta Stone Maps. The stone maps have created as many enemies as they have friends. The Peralta Stone Maps will survive as long as there are those who follow in the “Footsteps of Coronado’s Children.”
Now comes along the two amigos and what do you two tell us.
Originally Posted by sgtfda
Had to go to the Apache Junction fruit market today so I decided to meet up with Tom K at the Blue Bird. By the way they have a set of the stones on display in the front window. Copies just like the museum. God everyone has them. Tom told me a acquaintance made the stones in the 30's and placed them in the FJ spot. I asked why there and he said the guy was working in the area. This person also worked as a tombstone engraver. Which explains a lot. I wanted to ask him about the Burns from Burns Ranch and the pitt mine. The stones came up after I noticed the window display. I will still keep a open mind as its fun to play with the issue.
Frank,
Tom told me this story some time ago. Not much chance he will ever divulge the name. I believe it to be true.
Take care,
Joe
Sarge the problem is Mr. K`s concluding sentence is true. Those maps will be maiming and killing folks," as long as there are those who follow in the “Footsteps of Coronado’s Children.”
It is one thing for people to die and be injured if knowledgeable people don`t know the truth but you do. So Sarge who is telling the truth you and Humper or Mr. K. My money is on you. That is why what`s going on is so dangerous. It is not just a lie it is a lie that is allowed to live and is being given credence by those who know better.
Mary
Hello Hal
just some additional thoughts. If the identity of this person can be ascertained this may lead to places and people that could open a whole new perspective on this issue. First what is his name, next who did he know. And where did he get the knowledge to pull this off. Maybe he knew the person that is your prime suspect. Could be a whole new fascinating avenue of research. Also as it appears, the identity of this person has been known for years by a number of people why has it been kept quiet? Is it as simple as economics 101. Keep a mystery going so you can reap the economic benefit of writing about it and having people from all over the world visit and talk about Arizona? Fascinating.
And what the hey a few people get killed looking for the end of the Stone Map Trail just the cost of doing business.
Humper you and Sarge remind me of the old adage, "loose lips sinks ships". In this case this ship should have been sunk a long time ago. The right thing may have been done because of you. You should enjoy the well deserved spot light for your fine efforts. I have to hand it to Humper though I would be more than a little upset knowing that I circled Boulder Canyon needlessly for 40 years when someone could have just taken me aside and said look Joe here is the truth. That is it Joe, you realize you too were caught up in this scam and the last thing you want to do is admit it.
Mary
Hopefully Mr. Kollenburn will help prevent any needless injuries or deaths in the mountains by simply telling the truth and preventing others from going on a fool`s errand.
Mary
Recently Joe Ribaudo and Sarge reported to the forum that Tom Kollenburn has indicated to them that he knows who created the stone maps and has known so for many years. Given that this information is shared with only a few select individuals it is important that Mr. Kollenburn come clean on what he knows. If Sarge and Joe are right they deserve a pat on the back. Mr. Ribaudo has claimed:
"Tom has been saying for years that he believes the Stone Maps are a hoax. After writing that in the newspaper, his "friend" xxx called him on the phone and called him every name in the book. I believe he was also ridiculed on DUSA. Bottom line is, even someone as well respected as Tom will be publicly, as well as privately, ridiculed for voicing that kind of an opinion. Just look at what's happening here.
Many of the boasters here, are not worthy to clean his horse's stall.
You may all quote me on that"!
Joe Ribaudo
Given this then as Hal Croves has wisely stated:
"That is not the point. It does not matter how many would take Tom's word for it. The point is that the in telling the truth as he sees it, his public would have the chance to vet the story. Let us have the chance to do the research and to establish our own conclusions. Tom is a public figure who writes about history. Why would Tom share that story as a secret, between friends who post about it and not publicly? He has the perfect platform to set things straight, as he see it. Why not? That story obviously has been around for some time and the engraver must be long gone by now. (?)
This is the only part of the stone maps that I find unsettling.
Secrets and the paranoia that it feeds."
"One thing is clear, if Tom knows that name and knows without a doubt that they are an intentional hoax, he has a moral obligation to inform the public. I will not even comment on the legal exposure since I am not an attorney, although I play one on Halloween.
You are correct that "I" am owed nothing, especially by Tom, but as I believe him to be an honest and compassionate man, I chose to believe that his actions (or inaction) simply reflect a level of hope".
The following dialogue fleshes out some of the particulars.
Hello Hal,
Given the information that Humper and Sarge have provided there seems to be another candidate for the creator of the stone maps. If you look at what Kollenburn says in his 2009 Chronicles:
"Still other stories exist as to the origin of these notorious stone maps. Fifty years ago it was rumored that a cowboy who lived along Queen Creek carved the stone maps and buried them near Black Point to confuse treasure hunters. This old cowboy did a lot of stone work for Clemans Cattle Company at the old Upper Fraser Ranch known today as the Reavis Ranch. The story is that this old man was a stone engraver at a cemetery back East and gave up the job to become a cowboy in the West".
Now look at the statements of Humper and Sarge. While Kollenburn seems to hide the identity of the creator a bit there is enough the same in the accounts that if someone knows this individual paydirt may have been hit. Notice specifically the use of the term tombstone engraver and stone engraver/cemetary. That is probably a slip that points to the creator. Seems Kollenburn has known the creator of the maps for a good long time.
Maybe Humper and Sarge have given us the creator without having to come out from under their rock.
Mary
Hello Hal,
I checked Grannie`s papers and the phrase meant something else. Just a place in the Superstitions.
Sarge,
You just keep getting deeper and deeper. Why not just do the right thing and tell the truth. in 2009 Tom K. in the Kollenburn Chronicles writes 2 specific articles addressing the Stone Maps. In neither article does he suggest what you and Humper says is the truth instead he just runs through a list of possible creators of the maps and concludes:
"As you can see this is just another explanation for the infamous and notorious Peralta Stone Maps. The stone maps have created as many enemies as they have friends. The Peralta Stone Maps will survive as long as there are those who follow in the “Footsteps of Coronado’s Children.”
Now comes along the two amigos and what do you two tell us.
Originally Posted by sgtfda
Had to go to the Apache Junction fruit market today so I decided to meet up with Tom K at the Blue Bird. By the way they have a set of the stones on display in the front window. Copies just like the museum. God everyone has them. Tom told me a acquaintance made the stones in the 30's and placed them in the FJ spot. I asked why there and he said the guy was working in the area. This person also worked as a tombstone engraver. Which explains a lot. I wanted to ask him about the Burns from Burns Ranch and the pitt mine. The stones came up after I noticed the window display. I will still keep a open mind as its fun to play with the issue.
Frank,
Tom told me this story some time ago. Not much chance he will ever divulge the name. I believe it to be true.
Take care,
Joe
Sarge the problem is Mr. K`s concluding sentence is true. Those maps will be maiming and killing folks," as long as there are those who follow in the “Footsteps of Coronado’s Children.”
It is one thing for people to die and be injured if knowledgeable people don`t know the truth but you do. So Sarge who is telling the truth you and Humper or Mr. K. My money is on you. That is why what`s going on is so dangerous. It is not just a lie it is a lie that is allowed to live and is being given credence by those who know better.
Mary
Hello Hal
just some additional thoughts. If the identity of this person can be ascertained this may lead to places and people that could open a whole new perspective on this issue. First what is his name, next who did he know. And where did he get the knowledge to pull this off. Maybe he knew the person that is your prime suspect. Could be a whole new fascinating avenue of research. Also as it appears, the identity of this person has been known for years by a number of people why has it been kept quiet? Is it as simple as economics 101. Keep a mystery going so you can reap the economic benefit of writing about it and having people from all over the world visit and talk about Arizona? Fascinating.
And what the hey a few people get killed looking for the end of the Stone Map Trail just the cost of doing business.
Humper you and Sarge remind me of the old adage, "loose lips sinks ships". In this case this ship should have been sunk a long time ago. The right thing may have been done because of you. You should enjoy the well deserved spot light for your fine efforts. I have to hand it to Humper though I would be more than a little upset knowing that I circled Boulder Canyon needlessly for 40 years when someone could have just taken me aside and said look Joe here is the truth. That is it Joe, you realize you too were caught up in this scam and the last thing you want to do is admit it.
Mary
Hopefully Mr. Kollenburn will help prevent any needless injuries or deaths in the mountains by simply telling the truth and preventing others from going on a fool`s errand.
Mary
you now have a big decision to make, which book do you buy now,np
