Minrelica
Bronze Member
You are one of the few people's opinions on here that I always think stinks... You never seem to have anything positive to say and some of the things you are against are trivial.
The shipwreck and its contents were found by Odyssey Marine Exploration
- Thread starter Red_desert
- Start date
You are one of the few people's opinions on here that I always think stinks... You never seem to have anything positive to say and some of the things you are against are trivial.
dustytrails123
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Minrelica
Bronze Member
I only have 2 people on my ignore list.. I will keep you off since I like watching trainwrecks every now and then.
pvet7521
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There is no question that Spain will lay claim to that and every other wreck that someone else finds . The law has been re written , it states that all treasure on all and every wrecked and abandoned sailing vessel goes back to the people , nation that FIRST stole it.
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY
Bronze Member
Hola Trez
Greg stemn Loves to play with fire ! Why isn't he playing with the Victory ??Ps I'm thinking of selling my 1652 what do think it would be worth.
Cheers, Sam
Trez
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oops it should have said, all with the exception of Sam.
Pulling out that ace-in-the-hole 1652 I see...dirty pool. Always appreciated what you have to say my friend...but I can't stop supporting what Odyssey has done or how they have done it. As far as Victory, that is a very sensitive case and to me far more significant than any Spanish galleon that has been found by any...party PERIOD. I do feel the British Government and her citizens are willing to support Odyssey, as to how far...remains to be seen. I appreciate Spain and her history but just sickened by their modern interpretation of PLUS ULTRA when it comes to Shipwrecks that rarely can be positively identified. Hats off to the Odyssey team as of now. The 1652 is safe for now, but I am sure its just a matter of time
Cheers Sam
Respectfully,
Trez
Pulling out that ace-in-the-hole 1652 I see...dirty pool. Always appreciated what you have to say my friend...but I can't stop supporting what Odyssey has done or how they have done it. As far as Victory, that is a very sensitive case and to me far more significant than any Spanish galleon that has been found by any...party PERIOD. I do feel the British Government and her citizens are willing to support Odyssey, as to how far...remains to be seen. I appreciate Spain and her history but just sickened by their modern interpretation of PLUS ULTRA when it comes to Shipwrecks that rarely can be positively identified. Hats off to the Odyssey team as of now. The 1652 is safe for now, but I am sure its just a matter of time
Cheers SamRespectfully,
Trez
Hola Trez
Ps I'm thinking of selling my 1652 what do think it would be worth.
Cheers, Sam
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VOC
Sr. Member
Probably 99% of the British Public would love to see OME excavate the Victory and see the artefacts and guns on display.
Unfortunately many of the government officers dealing with it are weak willed and will normally pander to the vocal minority campaigning groups such as the http://www.jnapc.org.uk/ and https://sites.google.com/site/adsirjohnbalchendescendant/ who tell lies and put out miss information.
Good to see you back Ossy, I presumed you had been away sharing out the Mercedes coins with Alexandre and AUVnav.
Unfortunately many of the government officers dealing with it are weak willed and will normally pander to the vocal minority campaigning groups such as the http://www.jnapc.org.uk/ and https://sites.google.com/site/adsirjohnbalchendescendant/ who tell lies and put out miss information.
Good to see you back Ossy, I presumed you had been away sharing out the Mercedes coins with Alexandre and AUVnav.
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MORE AND BEYOND OSSY
Bronze Member
Gday VOC
I'm in that 99% " To see the artifacts and Guns on display " Not on Odyssey on line shop !
Coin's will be shortly shared with all the Spanish museums and even on loan to the America's, for all to see. Sorry Trez the only way you will get my 1652 is if you buy it, I will let Stan know
so you can have a biding war
Trez, I'm surprised to hear you say that the Victory is more important than any other Spanish ship, You live and breath Spanish cobs, What about there history ?
Best regards to VOC and Trez
Sam
VOC
Sr. Member
Gday VOC
I'm in that 99% " To see the artifacts and Guns on display " Not on Odyssey on line shop !
Coin's will be shortly shared with all the Spanish museums and even on loan to the America's, for all to see. Sorry Trez the only way you will get my 1652 is if you buy it, I will let Stan know
so you can have a biding war
Trez, I'm surprised to hear you say that the Victory is more important than any other Spanish ship, You live and breath Spanish cobs, What about there history ?
Best regards to VOC and Trez
Sam
I am not aware that OME has any plans to sell any Victory artefacts recovered, they have found over 270 shipwrecks in the Western Approaches alone and I have not seen one artefact for sale, more likely to put them on Odyssey's Virtual Museum .
Personally I see coin different to other artefacts, as coin was designed and mass produced to be freely traded as a currency, whereas most other artefacts are normally ships fittings, personal possessions or cargo etc.
Good to see Spain ignoring the UNESCO guidelines by breaking up the collection that they stole and spreading them far and wide. Have to put the feelers out as I am sure some will soon make it to the black market before too long and might buy a few as a piece of history.
VOC
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VOC,
Aside from the obvious, it is certainly entertaining to see how many posters were fooled by the news of a recent recovery!
What are you talking about? Odyssey has stated their sole intention is to sell the artefacts to fund the recovery and their percentage, the first 2 cannon from the Victory were 'sold'. They may have 'found' many wrecks, but how many have actually had any reported recovery?
From the Odyssey Annual report 10-K filing with the SEC:
Pursuant to an agreement with the Foundation, Odyssey has produced an extensive project design for the archaeological excavation of the site, including a complete plan for recording, documentation, conservation, publication and public education. The agreement calls for Odyssey’s project costs to be reimbursed and for Odyssey to be paid a percentage of the recovered artifacts’ fair value. The preferred option is for Odyssey to be compensated in cash. However, if the Foundation determines, based on the principles adopted for their collection management and curation policy, that it is in its best interest to de-accession certain artifacts, the Foundation may choose to compensate Odyssey with artifacts in lieu of cash.
Odyssey will receive the equivalent of 80% of the fair value of artifacts that were primarily used in trade or commerce or were private property and bear no direct connection to the construction, navigation, defense or crew of the ship, such as coins or other similar cargo. Odyssey will receive the equivalent of 50% of the fair value of all other recovered objects typically associated with the construction, crewing and sailing of ships including, but not limited to, the ship’s hull, fittings, fasteners, construction elements, clothing, organic remains, foodstuffs, cooking utensils, pottery, weapons, ammunition, ground tackle and navigational equipment. For any private property including coins or other cargo administered through the Receiver of Wreck, the Foundation has agreed that Odyssey shall receive 80% of the value.
If you go to Odysseys Store, you will see coins, bottles, porcelain, and other artefacts for sale.
Nice try, but I am sure you are well aware were we all got our coins from.
Aside from the obvious, it is certainly entertaining to see how many posters were fooled by the news of a recent recovery!
What are you talking about? Odyssey has stated their sole intention is to sell the artefacts to fund the recovery and their percentage, the first 2 cannon from the Victory were 'sold'. They may have 'found' many wrecks, but how many have actually had any reported recovery?
From the Odyssey Annual report 10-K filing with the SEC:
Pursuant to an agreement with the Foundation, Odyssey has produced an extensive project design for the archaeological excavation of the site, including a complete plan for recording, documentation, conservation, publication and public education. The agreement calls for Odyssey’s project costs to be reimbursed and for Odyssey to be paid a percentage of the recovered artifacts’ fair value. The preferred option is for Odyssey to be compensated in cash. However, if the Foundation determines, based on the principles adopted for their collection management and curation policy, that it is in its best interest to de-accession certain artifacts, the Foundation may choose to compensate Odyssey with artifacts in lieu of cash.
Odyssey will receive the equivalent of 80% of the fair value of artifacts that were primarily used in trade or commerce or were private property and bear no direct connection to the construction, navigation, defense or crew of the ship, such as coins or other similar cargo. Odyssey will receive the equivalent of 50% of the fair value of all other recovered objects typically associated with the construction, crewing and sailing of ships including, but not limited to, the ship’s hull, fittings, fasteners, construction elements, clothing, organic remains, foodstuffs, cooking utensils, pottery, weapons, ammunition, ground tackle and navigational equipment. For any private property including coins or other cargo administered through the Receiver of Wreck, the Foundation has agreed that Odyssey shall receive 80% of the value.
If you go to Odysseys Store, you will see coins, bottles, porcelain, and other artefacts for sale.
Nice try, but I am sure you are well aware were we all got our coins from.
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VOC
Sr. Member
Hi AUVnav, what a delight you and Ossy surfacing on the same post.
You are correct OME does sell unimportant artefacts from the non-archaeological project on the SS Republic.
OME do both commercial salvage and archaeological work, but that does not mean they do both on the same site.
“The agreement calls for Odyssey’s project costs to be reimbursed and for Odyssey to be paid a percentage of the recovered artefacts’ fair value. The preferred option is for Odyssey to be compensated in cash. However, if the Foundation determines, based on the principles adopted for their collection management and curation policy, that it is in its best interest to de-accession certain artefacts, the Foundation may choose to compensate Odyssey with artefacts in lieu of cash”
Whether OME get any artefacts from the Victory will be at the sole choice of the Foundation, British Government and the Foundations archaeological advisors and will not be at the discretion of OME.
OME did not sell any of the Cannon, and as you know that is just another misleading lie that you archaeological types like to put around to back your flawed argument.
OME in consultation with the vessels owners recovered two guns for positive identification purposes and were reimbursed at an agreed rate with ownership remaining with the UK government.
If they were going to “sell” them they would have got Sotheby’s or Christies to sell them for far in-excess of the reimbursement fee they got.
You are correct OME does sell unimportant artefacts from the non-archaeological project on the SS Republic.
OME do both commercial salvage and archaeological work, but that does not mean they do both on the same site.
“The agreement calls for Odyssey’s project costs to be reimbursed and for Odyssey to be paid a percentage of the recovered artefacts’ fair value. The preferred option is for Odyssey to be compensated in cash. However, if the Foundation determines, based on the principles adopted for their collection management and curation policy, that it is in its best interest to de-accession certain artefacts, the Foundation may choose to compensate Odyssey with artefacts in lieu of cash”
Whether OME get any artefacts from the Victory will be at the sole choice of the Foundation, British Government and the Foundations archaeological advisors and will not be at the discretion of OME.
OME did not sell any of the Cannon, and as you know that is just another misleading lie that you archaeological types like to put around to back your flawed argument.
OME in consultation with the vessels owners recovered two guns for positive identification purposes and were reimbursed at an agreed rate with ownership remaining with the UK government.
If they were going to “sell” them they would have got Sotheby’s or Christies to sell them for far in-excess of the reimbursement fee they got.
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Like all of the gold and silver recovered?
What about the domain names setup for selling Merchant Royal, Mercedes and Victory artefacts?
For the Victory, as it appears the Foundation has no funding, how is Odyssey getting paid for the recovery costs?
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VOC
Sr. Member
Don't worry the Foundation has access to all the funding it needs to pay OME to do the Victory project in full, thats if OME wants paying.
They might just opt to fund themselves for the publicity or TV rights etc.
You never know some rich benefactors like yourself and Ossy who are interested in recovering our history might chuck in a few million.
OME could easily do this project with their own investors if needed, as it is not massively more costly than their operation that they run day in day out now. The vessel, ROV and archaeologist are working everyday on location and identification so to spend more time on the Victory site would be no hardship, and they could easily afford the conservation cost in the labs they already operate.
The Foundation/Trust system worked well and is still working well on the Mary Rose and a private sector option is much more preferable than a underfunded and inexperienced fudge job by some publicly funded organisation such as a heritage body or university who cannot keep up on the projects that they are in control of now.
They might just opt to fund themselves for the publicity or TV rights etc.
You never know some rich benefactors like yourself and Ossy who are interested in recovering our history might chuck in a few million.
OME could easily do this project with their own investors if needed, as it is not massively more costly than their operation that they run day in day out now. The vessel, ROV and archaeologist are working everyday on location and identification so to spend more time on the Victory site would be no hardship, and they could easily afford the conservation cost in the labs they already operate.
The Foundation/Trust system worked well and is still working well on the Mary Rose and a private sector option is much more preferable than a underfunded and inexperienced fudge job by some publicly funded organisation such as a heritage body or university who cannot keep up on the projects that they are in control of now.
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MORE AND BEYOND OSSY
Bronze Member
VOC
Sr. Member
Thats probably why it sank
The new Mary Rose museum is opening 31st of May 2013, many hundreds of new artefacts to go on show and more in context next to the hull. www.maryrose.org (just think none of this would happen now due to the UNESCO convention on UCH, and as it was not at risk all this would have been left in-situ).
Like you say it would be great to see all the Victory artefacts and guns together on the surface. Dont care what happens to any coin other than I would buy some to help fund the recovery, recording, conservation and display of the artefacts, and to own and pass down to future generations a piece of British history so the story would never die.
VOC
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im curious dusty. why do you hate treasure hunters
do you do any kind of hunting you have to be one of those liberals from what i can see. is it the jealousy that they find alot? i just never seen one treasure hunter bash another.sure there are some with bad blood for each other. my guess is you are not a treasure hunter? or if you are you have alterior motives. kind of like our government. iam a "REAL" treasure hunter. i want anybody and everybody to find gold .tons of it. i dont care who you are. well except democrats and government. bahhhh
do you do any kind of hunting you have to be one of those liberals from what i can see. is it the jealousy that they find alot? i just never seen one treasure hunter bash another.sure there are some with bad blood for each other. my guess is you are not a treasure hunter? or if you are you have alterior motives. kind of like our government. iam a "REAL" treasure hunter. i want anybody and everybody to find gold .tons of it. i dont care who you are. well except democrats and government. bahhhh
Vox veritas
Bronze Member
- Aug 2, 2008
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I doubt that the loss of about 1.5 million pesos (cash) of 1622 fleet commanded by Cadereita, hardly caused severe economic problems. At other times disappeared into the sea up to 15 million (1555-1556, 1589, 1628, 1656 and 1699) without serious consequences. We must remember the link of interests across Europe (merchants, banks, dealers) regarding Hispanic treasures, so that the losses not only harmed the crown, but the aliens themselves, who used brokers.
This photocopy attached relationship corresponds to the ratio Cadereita that written in 1622 with his signature.
VOC
Sr. Member
The words are in the "if any" highlighted below. and who to say the Victory is or was to be the wreck.
Galt will have the right to participate in one of Odyssey’s projects to be chosen by Galt during 2011. Under the terms of the agreement, Galt will receive half the net proceeds, if any, from the selected project until Galt has recouped its initial investment plus three times the investment. Thereafter, Galt will receive a residual 1% of net proceeds for each $1 million invested. No commissions are being paid and none of Odyssey’s securities will be sold or pledged under this agreement. The agreement is non-dilutive and will not result in an increase in total shares outstanding. The return to Galt is based solely on revenue participation from one project. Odyssey has received $ 5.6 million under this agreement and may opt to receive up to $10 million total.
Did you 'forget' the Odyssey filing with the SEC ?
In January 2012, Odyssey and Galt agreed to bifurcate Galt’s selection between two projects, the SS Gairsoppa and HMS Victory. Galt will receive 50% of Odyssey’s net proceeds, if any, on the SS Gairsoppa project until Galt receives two times its initial investment of $7,512,500. Galt will also receive 50% of Odyssey’s net proceeds, if any, on the HMS Victory project until Galt receives two times its initial investment and thereafter will receive 7.5125% of Odyssey’s net proceeds from the HMS Victory project.
Here it is 8K
So you are saying that GALT gave Odyssey almost $4 MILLION for the Victory recovery, with a return for at least $15.4 Million dollars + 7.51% NET PROCEEDS on-going, with no expected rate of return or expectation of sales of artefacts?
IF, as you say, Odyssey has no intentions of selling artefacts from the Victory, where is the $15+ million coming from?
In January 2012, Odyssey and Galt agreed to bifurcate Galt’s selection between two projects, the SS Gairsoppa and HMS Victory. Galt will receive 50% of Odyssey’s net proceeds, if any, on the SS Gairsoppa project until Galt receives two times its initial investment of $7,512,500. Galt will also receive 50% of Odyssey’s net proceeds, if any, on the HMS Victory project until Galt receives two times its initial investment and thereafter will receive 7.5125% of Odyssey’s net proceeds from the HMS Victory project.
Here it is 8K
So you are saying that GALT gave Odyssey almost $4 MILLION for the Victory recovery, with a return for at least $15.4 Million dollars + 7.51% NET PROCEEDS on-going, with no expected rate of return or expectation of sales of artefacts?
IF, as you say, Odyssey has no intentions of selling artefacts from the Victory, where is the $15+ million coming from?
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