THE RETURN OF THE GIANTSERPENT

[Oroblanco]

Kanabite wrote

besides ,the worst day in the hills , still beets the best day at work

Dang buddy I was about to say "ditto" and truer words have not been written, but then a few memories of extremely bad days in the tall tules came to mind and I had to think about it. After sober reflection, comparing several days and nights of being soaked to the bone and unable to get a fire going, no food, bitter cold and driving winds to the very best day at work, <shudder, sigh> I guess I have to say that I would take the cold hungry soaking in the wilderness over work. Sheesh what does that say about US?
Oroblanco

 

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[gollum]

For anybody who thinks that shadow signs are figments of people's imaginations, I present the face of Coronado. It has been called the face of Christ, but it bears an uncanny resemblance to the bust of Coronado. The reason I say that, is because this is in the Coronado National Forest in Southern Arizona.

The first picture is plain, while the second one is shadow enhanced to bring out the dark lines around the face.

Best Mike

 

[gollum]

It has been told to me that this is neat but only plants make this up. NOT SO! Here is another view from the left side that accidentally happened to pick up the face.

Mike

 

[Springfield]

Kanabite wrote

besides ,the worst day in the hills , still beets the best day at work

Dang buddy I was about to say "ditto" and truer words have not been written, but then a few memories of extremely bad days in the tall tules came to mind and I had to think about it. After sober reflection, comparing several days and nights of being soaked to the bone and unable to get a fire going, no food, bitter cold and driving winds to the very best day at work, <shudder, sigh> I guess I have to say that I would take the cold hungry soaking in the wilderness over work. Sheesh what does that say about US?
Oroblanco

Lousy jobs?

 

[Springfield]

Mike, I agree that shadow signs exist and have been used stratregically, although I wouldn't classify the 'Coronado' face as a shadow sign - more of an example of pareidolia (natural shape that looks like another object). Some of these phenomena have been used also, but I'd say that 98% of the pictures of same posted on TN are merely interesting-looking rocks, not 'treasure markers'. Below is what I would call a shadow sign - the shadow profile of a helmeted face with the tip of the nose resting on 'happy man', a rather important petroglyph for reasons that are beyond the scope of the current discussion.

 

[Cubfan64]

It seems to me that the only way to tell if something in a natural phenomena or not is to have an unbaised expert in recognizing tooling marks examine the rocks carefully and make a determination.

Unless that is done, there are too many questions for me to accept something as proof.

 

[gollum]

Mike, I agree that shadow signs exist and have been used stratregically, although I wouldn't classify the 'Coronado' face as a shadow sign - more of an example of pareidolia (natural shape that looks like another object). Some of these phenomena have been used also, but I'd say that 98% of the pictures of same posted on TN are merely interesting-looking rocks, not 'treasure markers'. Below is what I would call a shadow sign - the shadow profile of a helmeted face with the tip of the nose resting on 'happy man', a rather important petroglyph for reasons that are beyond the scope of the current discussion.

Too much detail to not really be there. I know exactly what pareidolia is, and to a good part, I agree with you. Buuuut, I see that you haven't seen much from this site. This is part of a canyon a little ways West of the Tumacacori Mission in Az. There are a lot of markings and monuments in this canyon. Like this owl.

Best-Mike

 

[kanabite]

Kanabite wrote

besides ,the worst day in the hills , still beets the best day at work

Dang buddy I was about to say "ditto" and truer words have not been written, but then a few memories of extremely bad days in the tall tules came to mind and I had to think about it. After sober reflection, comparing several days and nights of being soaked to the bone and unable to get a fire going, no food, bitter cold and driving winds to the very best day at work, <shudder, sigh> I guess I have to say that I would take the cold hungry soaking in the wilderness over work. Sheesh what does that say about US?
Oroblanco

Lousy jobs?

naw Steve , i got a great job , good pay and all that .I even get told once in a while I'm good at it . just prefer the time spent in the hills over a day at work . just hope that the work holds out in these rather trying times , ya know.

interesting discussion , i like both of your guy's pictures .
both worth investigating further . ya know its hard to tell from just a picture someone posts what may or may not be. pareidolia VS petromania [sp], {and thank you Mesa where ever you are for that last one }the debate will continue i am sure . but I'll give you both credit considering the sources . i for one do not know all there is to know , I'll be the first to admit it . but i do enjoy broadening possibilities in the search . Steve i remember a few years ago you had inquired somewhere else as to where you might obtain the book i started this topic about . if you are still interested please email me with a mailing address and i will send one to you . free of charge . here is the address [email protected] i have been given a few on CD with the fancy label to give to those i think might want it .

 

[Oroblanco]

Springfield wrote

Lousy jobs?

No, several jobs have been downright pleasant, one even had good pay to boot. It is a matter of what the heart wants, and what feels like "home". For some it is purely a matter of money, in which case the job would surely top any pursuit of lost treasures.

What about you Springfield, would you trade the best day at work for the worst day in the boonies? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Springfield wrote

Lousy jobs?

No, several jobs have been downright pleasant, one even had good pay to boot. It is a matter of what the heart wants, and what feels like "home". For some it is purely a matter of money, in which case the job would surely top any pursuit of lost treasures.

What about you Springfield, would you trade the best day at work for the worst day in the boonies? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

Well, guys, I've also been fortunate with my work situation - generally pretty interesting work, great bosses and decent pay. Dealing with the growing incompetence of bureaucrats has been the stressful downside, but ... oh, well.

I don't know which was my worst day in the boonies - thought I might die a couple times due to either freezing lost in the snow for days or lack of water in the sun (love New Mexico!). Finding a man's body half-eaten by a mountain lion one day was a downer too.

Overall, I agree with you Roy - I prefer seperating myself from the structured world. The inspiration, spontaneity and feeling of life of the natural world wins hands down over the cage, not matter how comfortable the cage may be. Chasing down mysteries in the canyons is an added bonus.

 

[kanabite]

well then it looks like we agree, personally i am just thankful to still have a job . its been really iffy lately . seems like even the rich states are running out of unemployment benefits , and i'm just a little too old to have to move back in with the folks if disaster strikes . anyway Steve , I'll send you the book if you would like , or maybe you already got a hold of it , but the offer stands .

getting back to this discussion , personally i don't think a shadow symbol on a more native looking petroglyph is at all beyond the scope of this discussion . in fact it is probably right on topic , in lieu of the things that have been said here , but i under stand if you do not wish to elaborate . i am going to have to look through some old pictures on another hard drive and see if i can find one or two that might be candidates for this type of symbol you have hinted at .thanks guys , this is a big forum and i am not really in my element here so its been kind of nice not having stones thrown in this direction .

 

[kanabite]

wait it was the glyph you hinted at , sorry . ya he is best talked about over coffee , at Starbucks , in person . "happy man " ?, i would guess he probably has more names than that . and i believe he gets around , maybe even a world traveler some might say .

 

[Native1858]

Very neat post I have read the book Treasure of Tumicacari (I think I remember it right) after finding it with an Inter Library Loan. Had a few of the rock wall pictures of Christ, or Francisco Cordova, or .........whoever it is in it. A very interesting read if you can find it.

 

[Springfield]

.... Steve i remember a few years ago you had inquired somewhere else as to where you might obtain the book i started this topic about . if you are still interested please email me with a mailing address and i will send one to you . free of charge . here is the address [email protected] i have been given a few on CD with the fancy label to give to those i think might want it .

Thanks for the offer, kanabite, but I already have a copy of the book.

 

[gollum]

Hey Native,

Do you mean "Enigma at Tumacacori" by Gary Oliver? None of the monuments are in that book. Gary doesn't believe in monuments. All he bases his entire belief in are those "Star" drill holes. Put a dowel rod in and look where it points. Well, those drill holes and the Molina Document and Map. I personally think that Gary is a little off the mark, but you have to admire his sticktoitiveness. He has spent 31 years researching and working that site. That says a lot about the man. Last time we talked, I think his spending was somewhere around $200,000.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

Trying to remember, but it seems your opinion of Gary Oliver and his "find" has.......evolved somewhat, over the years.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Mike,

Trying to remember, but it seems your opinion of Gary Oliver and his "find" has.......evolved somewhat, over the years.

Take care,

Joe

It has somewhat. Not a 180, or anything like that, but a little. We have talked and corresponded extensively, and I have spent a lot of time down in Tumacacori. I will say that there are numerous monuments and markers in Javelina Canyon. I'm still not 100% convinced about the Molina Document or Map, but from many things I have seen and read, I lean toward them being authentic. After reading them, and learning what I have about Jesuits, I think it is possible for them to be heavily coded.

My biggest problem with all the monuments and markers are that they are mostly things that the Spanish would understand. Why would the Jesuits, who were hiding their wealth from the Spanish, use markers to their hiding places that the Spanish would understand? They were much smarter than that.

Best-Mike

 

[Native1858]

Yes, it is titled the Enigma of Tumacocori. Thanks for the reminder. Very interesting book, and I enjoyed the research he has done, and put into it.

 

[gollum]

Joe,

Another thing. My previous opinion of Gary's find was formed by my lack of experience on that mountain versus his many years there. When in that situation, I ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt to those with more experience than myself (who aren't totally whacked out). As I spent more time in the mountains there, I learned a lot more, and my opinions changed somewhat.

Best-Mike

 

[HappyTrails55]

May all of you find that Treasure you seek and Happy New year....It's out there....Darrell