The real history that you were never taught in school Part 1 World war 1

[Red James Cash]

You do a good job at speaking fool though.

 

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[Dave44]

Spart, with all due respect sir. You and I have sparred a couple of times so I will tell you what I know about you. You and I are a lot alike, it is the reason we kind of compliment each other really. We both make unconventional jumps in logical thought processes and in your circles it gives you a funny rapier-like wit. In my circles some may even find my wit funny, or not.

But the fact is you are thinking in a linear fashion right now and are not using the infamous 3 dimensional thinking you display at times, I will just say reread the whole thread. I find it mostly amusing, and who knows, I may have learned something.

My best to you.

 

[spartacus53]

DAvee44, I'm too tired to go though this whole post again However, I can see the point that farmerchick made in asking for sources. I tend to keep an open mind for the most part and will peruse information provided. Once read and digested, I can draw my own conclusion.

Is history 100% accurate, nope... But to state a belief with no documentation, debate, or room for discussion is null and void in my book. At least when I went to school we were taught that the person who throws the first punch is typically your aggressor, whether provoked, or not.

To further illustrate my point, even Red admitted that Germany declared war on Russia first.. So if that is the case, why bother invading Belgium first it wasn't on, or in the way to Russia Germany hated France and should have started there. If you noticed that in WWII Germany went through Poland first, to set up for a Russian invasion. then they went right through France. I guess they figured reversing their strategy in WWII would be beneficial, and they guessed wrong again

 

[Red James Cash]

To further illustrate my point, even Red admitted that Germany declared war on Russia first.. So if that is the case, why bother invading Belgium first

This is the part thats over your head spart.Germany had no choice except to declare war on Russia.Russia didnt like the terms Germany set.Germany had to stand behind her allies.Now what happens if a country doesnt do that?Germany didnt invade Belgium until England and France declared war,Get it?If England and France didnt stick their nose into it,it would of been between Austria-Hungary,Serbia,Russia and Germany.It doesnt take a physical act to be aggressive.Declaring war is enough.So instead of going through the line of French forts on the France border.The plan was for the bulk of Germanys armies to go through Belgium. A holding action was planned for on the southern western front.That was the plan.But the commander completely screwed up the plan.changed it to FUBAR and the infamous trench warfare resulted.

 

[packerbacker]

"We are probably fools not to declare war on Germany" is quoted in many places including this one.
Germany's 1923 Hyperinflation: a 'Private' Affair. Stephen Zarlenga.

 

[Red James Cash]

I even stated a similar statement at the beginning of the thread Packer,but they all got carried away with trying to prove me wrong.

 

[FarmerChick]

"We are probably fools not to declare war on Germany" is quoted in many places including this one.
Germany's 1923 Hyperinflation: a 'Private' Affair. Stephen Zarlenga.

I stated earlier that this did happen. economics obviously does play into wars and I have read the same statements in many sources I researched.

but original post said England was the agressor. England was not. the war had a series of treaties/alliances that dragged this whole war into play. Germany can not be let off the hook in anyway obviously.

The original post is inaccurate. Red stated ina post that Germany had to declare war to back allies. AS DID France and Britian. Simple as that.

If it is OK to say Germany had no choice because of alliances, then it is ok to conclude that France and Britian did the exact same thing.

 

[FarmerChick]

Germany with Russia allied with France conceived a war plan to rapidly defeat France before the superior resources of these two countries could be brought to bear on Germany. Because the French had heavily fortified the border, the German Schliffen Plan called for a massive stike through neutral Belgium to avoid the French fortifications along the French-German border. The Germans invaded Belgium (August 4, 1914). this part is what gave Germany 'that' beginning aggressor title' ----This horified the world because it was correctly seen as the Germans trampeling the rights of a small neutral coutry in violation of international law. Thus from the beginning the Germans were seen in American and other countries as an unprincipled aggressor in the War. -----did you read that ?
More importantly at the time, the German invasion brought Britain into the War (August 4, 1914). Britain had understandings with France and Russia, but there were not firm treaty commitments. Britain had guaranteed Belgian independence in the Treaty of London (1839). Britain may have entered the War anyway, (and it probably would do just that due to economic rivalry etc) but it was the invasion of Belgium that triggered the British declaration of war and the dispatch of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) to stop the Germans. The Germans gambled that they could defeat the French quickly as they did in the Franco-Prussian War. They disregarded the Belgian Army and calculated that they could defeat the French army before the British could deploy a substantial force to aid the French. Te Belgians put up and unepectedly stiff resistance, slowing the German advance. King Albert I proclaimed, "Belgium is a nation, not a road." The BEF although at first small also slowed the Germans. A Russian offensive forced the Germans to divert forces from the drive on Paris. In the end the Germans were stopped by the Miracle on the Marne (September 1914). Although the Germans were stopped, they had overrun most of Belgium which remained in German hands for most of the War.


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this is from a book. but I don't think I will say the source. because no one on here wants sources posted
it would be refreshing if someone could even 'copy and paste' a real paragraph stating that England was the agressor to start WW1 but it can't be done.

 

[hunting deer]

Just got back to this thread. "the analysis of facts in relation to one another." The number one meaning of the word theory according to webster. I too am skeptical of anyone stating information as absolute facts without any sources.

 

[hunting deer]

I'm interested in sources. Have too leave again.

 

[Red James Cash]

Farmerchick youre almost right,on some things.Now lets hear from you on why the Schlieffen plan didnt work.