The Pit Mine, the LDM, Kochera and the Nugget of Truth video.

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Thanks much!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...67-pit-mine-really-lost-dutchman-mine-92.html

scroll down to post # 1372.

It was posted by somehiker in post 1372 yesterday.

I hope it is ok to re-post this ?

My apologies Wayne if I should have asked first before re-posting this.

 

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[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Some people will say anything at times...I once gave an assayer 4.86 pounds of country rock with wire gold in it...He extracted the wire gold out of the ore and had IT on display in his assay office...He fed me some b.s. about it only having 3 ounces of gold per ton...Oh well...I took his assay with a grain of salt after telling my partner that I believed that he had gotten the wire gold specimens on display from the ore I had given him...I wonder IF he ever found the location that the ore came from...hehehe

And I would not doubt said crooked assayer fed some fancy b.s. to possible investors and milked my ore for all that he could...lol...Thus are some treasure hunters in this world...May they get their just rewards...rofl

Or ... next time crush it yourself and take the easy part and let them analyize the marix, then math it back together yourself for your true value.

 

[deducer]

I hate seeing potentially interesting threads get so badly sidetracked.

Paul,

Threads only get sidetracked when posters respond to trolls. If the more serious posters of this forum would just stop responding to trolls, they will go away of their own accord. Continually responding to them only encourages them to stay around and post more nonsense.

 

[cactusjumper]

JohnWhite,

I didn't say the Matchbox (jewelry) was made by a company in Arizona.

I said the JL & Co. on the inscription was not John Levy of San Francisco it was Julius Lieberman of Arizona.

And Julius Liberman was not the company who made the Matchbox he was the man who awarded it to Gus Hirshfeld.

Any company could have made the Matchbox.

You are confusing that the manufacturer gave the Matchbox to Hirshfeld.

Julius Lieberman gave the Matchbox to Hirshfeld because Hirshfeld and Lieberman were business partners.

Julius Lieberman wasn't in the Jewelry business or making Matchboxes.

And Brownie Holmes never said John Levy and Co. of San Francisco definitely made the Matchbox, he said they might have made it, he did not know for sure.

I really can't explain it any better than that.

Matthew

Here is what Tom Kollenborn wrote:

http://www.ajpl.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Waltz-Update.pdf

Believe he knew Brownie as well as most folks.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[somehiker]

I re-posted that video earlier today, because within the first few minutes Ron insists that the quartz typically found between Goldfield and the south/south- eastern part of the Superstitions is hydrothermal, which he claims "predominately doesn't have any mineral in it"...." MEZOTHERMAL AND EPITHERMAL ARE THE TWO QUARTZES THAT RUN GOLD".
I can't see where he is coming from with that claim at all.....https://www.google.ca/search?q=GOLD...fox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=5_RTWtU_zt7wB_jKm4AH

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I re-posted that video earlier today, because within the first few minutes Ron insists that the quartz typically found between Goldfield and the south/south- eastern part of the Superstitions is hydrothermal, which he claims "predominately doesn't have any mineral in it"...." MEZOTHERMAL AND EPITHERMAL ARE THE TWO QUARTZES THAT RUN GOLD".
I can't see where he is coming from with that claim at all.....https://www.google.ca/search?q=GOLD...fox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=5_RTWtU_zt7wB_jKm4AH

somehiker,

Ron makes several definitive statements of fact that just are not correct. I'm sure Ron believes what he is saying but what he says in some of his statements is his opinion and certainly not fact.
Ron is of course entitled to his opinion and the right to voice it.
I don't have any problem with Ron telling things his way, or anyone else telling things the way they see it. Where I part company is when someone has to disparage someone else and call what they say as lies to try and make their argument valid.
Everyone should be able to just state their case and let everyone decide what the fact of the matter is.
Ron, in my opinion, is falling into that group who feels they have to trash others opinion, and sometime the facts, to make their statements seem more valid.

It's one reason I rarely post on the Forum anymore and keep what I know to myself.

Matthew

 

[JohnWhite]

I don't for the life of me have any idea how someone can come to that conclusion. This thread has quickly twisted into a menagerie of conspiracy theories, wild guesses and outright misinterpretations.

If you want to make the argument that the gold used to make the matchbox came from "choice" gold ore Waltz had collected over the years from various locations including his time spent in CA, you’re free to make that claim however there is absolutely zero evidence to back that up – NONE AT ALL, just a wild theory. You could just as easily say that Darrell Duppa brought gold with him from New Zealand and sold it to Jacob Waltz, or some other pioneer who travelled west to AZ brought it with him and Waltz stole it – there’s just as much evidence for those things - zero.

I hate seeing potentially interesting threads get so badly sidetracked.

I was stating that I believe that the jewelry in question was made by a Californian jeweler with Californian Ore from a California mine...How the people who came into possession of said California gold jewelry is beyond me...I was pulling rabbits from the hat stating that they could have won said jewelry in a poker match for as far as I know, I had a former room mate bet his motorcycle against several hundred dollars back in the 80's...His name was Kolbeck, from Wisconsin, IF my memory serves me correctly...I had four aces and felt I could not loose...He had a royal straight flush ace high in spades, yes there were jokers in the deck...I still think that the dealer had dealt from the bottom of the deck but who is to say

We live and learn Cubfan...

Case in point...I have freely given ore from several deposits that I have come across over the years to random people...At times I have known what I was giving them and at times I hadn't a clue, as with a large piece of quartz I call my Tia Juana...One can do research to put one in the ballpark when it comes to prospecting...The rest is skill and luck...I have been pretty lucky my entire life...I prospect for the fun of IT...I could really care less IF I make any money from it...I am pretty certain that I could make a living at IT IF I really chose to do so...But I could really care less...

I am certain of what I have stated of finding the area depicted on the PSM's...But that in itself is another story that I may tell many years from now...I will even further state that I gave you a small sample of ore from said locale...IT may put you in the ballpark one day...But I doubt it will put you into the vein...Go figure...

I am just stating that it is my personal belief that the LDM legend is based on lies and innuendo...People have been chasing a dream as most of us do...And we are blinded by the thoughts we envision said dream may produce...Heck...I hope that I am wrong and one of ya'll LDM hunters will find IT one day...And I hope it will be one of ya'll who have spent most of your adult lives pursuing...

That will leave more for Babymick1, myself, and others like us to find in other areas...Other than in AZ...I like Babymick1 will continue to state...I did not go looking for the area depicted in the PSM's...It found me...I guess I was just lucky...Yeah right...lol

Good luck ya'll...And sorry for adding a spin to this thread...I just find IT a little fishy that a numbers cruncher got promoted from a pencil pusher to a Salon Owner overnight...Go figure...IT could happen..."When donkeys fly" hehehe...Oh I guess IT was a classic case of IT'S not what you know...IT'S WHO YOU KNOW...

I know no one...No one...I guess I'll never make IT in this prospecting business...Oh well...I wonder IF anyone will ever stumble upon some of my little play areasOnly time will tell...rofl

 

[Cubfan64]

Paul,

Threads only get sidetracked when posters respond to trolls. If the more serious posters of this forum would just stop responding to trolls, they will go away of their own accord. Continually responding to them only encourages them to stay around and post more nonsense.

You're right deducer - I haven't posted enough to remember that there is a function called ignore that works well - sometimes I'm just having a bad day and see a couple posts that just annoy the heck out of me. Sorry bout that.

 

[cactusjumper]

somehiker,

Ron makes several definitive statements of fact that just are not correct. I'm sure Ron believes what he is saying but what he says in some of his statements is his opinion and certainly not fact.
Ron is of course entitled to his opinion and the right to voice it.
I don't have any problem with Ron telling things his way, or anyone else telling things the way they see it. Where I part company is when someone has to disparage someone else and call what they say as lies to try and make their argument valid.
Everyone should be able to just state their case and let everyone decide what the fact of the matter is.
Ron, in my opinion, is falling into that group who feels they have to trash others opinion, and sometime the facts, to make their statements seem more valid.

It's one reason I rarely post on the Forum anymore and keep what I know to myself.

Matthew

Matthew,

Ron is well known and respected among most Dutch Hunters. His word is trusted. Your reasons for rarely posting and keeping what you know to yourself are probably valid and best for us all.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[wrmickel1]

Here is what Tom Kollenborn wrote:

http://www.ajpl.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Waltz-Update.pdf

Believe he knew Brownie as well as most folks.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Cubfan, Deducer, Oroblanco and Matthew

Now, Joe come through again with a beautiful Post.

Its not a bunch of malarkey as the above signed

I don't research this stuff, but maybe I should start. My post of a pic of gold ore

decribed to a tee, Amazed at the way they say the ore could be processed

All you need is a hammer to remove the gold, The ore color described to a tee

The Box Aledged to be of Waltz,s gold

The people who bought the gold all different names

ect ect ect ect

So Gentleman tell me why they are describing my gold in 1895

ohhh yeah there Time Travelers of course

You gentlemen should start a Fiction page, your good at it

or hook up with the New Begainings Guy

Thanks Joe. I think your Truely the last of Gentlemen left Here.

babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

The Lost Wagoner Mine

All My Quotes are Oro's

 

[Oroblanco]

Paul,

Threads only get sidetracked when posters respond to trolls. If the more serious posters of this forum would just stop responding to trolls, they will go away of their own accord. Continually responding to them only encourages them to stay around and post more nonsense.

Mea culpa. I mistakenly thought it was a serious discussion with all parties, and was slow to recognize what was going on.

Great posts Cubfan, Deducer, Matthew, Somehiker, and Cactusjumper.

On the changed opinions of Tom K and Bob C, we should keep in mind that they changed their minds after many years of having people call them fools and worse. Most people would probably have a change of heart after that.

Anyway it is not a light thing to swear an affidavit, it is on the same legal standard as a written deposition in court. It could even end up with legal charges for perjury if lies were found. So don't be flippant about sworn affidavits, they have legal weight.

Apologies for having fed the trolls.

 

[JohnWhite]

Or ... next time crush it yourself and take the easy part and let them analyize the marix, then math it back together yourself for your true value.

I doubt that I'll ever be able to retrieve any more of that ore ConceptualizedNetherlandr...IT came from a very remote area that is very hard to get to...lol...I doubt that I'll ever return to said site...So whomever ended up with some beautiful crystalline helix form sylvanite possibly or was it actually platinum, IT may truly be unique and worth a pretty penny, from an assayer who did business in Sacramento in the 90's with the last name of Smith...Good luck finding its origins...Hell...I gave him the darned ore and I can't even find where it came from...

Just stating that not all assayers in the world are completely honest...I am just speaking from my own experiences that I have had with a few of them...

Take it as ya'll will...

I am paranoid by nature...I could swear that there are some who have been following me for quite some time...And I sure as heck won't lead any of them to any of my little play areas...hehehe...Anyhow...

Ya'll won't see me wasting any more of my time searching for the LDM...rofl...

I hope Babymick1 really has found IT...Or at least a mine that has similar ore...That is nowhere near AZ...

I am content in knowing that I have found the true area depicted in the PSM's...And the Perfil Map...And a few other lost mine tales...Even though I may never return to either of them ever again...I am content in knowing I have been there...lmao...

 

[wrmickel1]

Well Gentlemen I'll Post it again

The only Photo of Thermal Compressed Dutchman Ore





Set. Love. Matchbox




Now that match box in natural light does look a lot like mine.

whoooooooooooooo. As Ric Flair Would Say

babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

Mea culpa. I mistakenly thought it was a serious discussion with all parties, and was slow to recognize what was going on.

Great posts Cubfan, Deducer, Matthew, Somehiker, and Cactusjumper.

On the changed opinions of Tom K and Bob C, we should keep in mind that they changed their minds after many years of having people call them fools and worse. Most people would probably have a change of heart after that.

Anyway it is not a light thing to swear an affidavit, it is on the same legal standard as a written deposition in court. It could even end up with legal charges for perjury if lies were found. So don't be flippant about sworn affidavits, they have legal weight.

Apologies for having fed the trolls.

No change of Heart here, I stand by everything I say or post and if we all were in the same room
you'd here a lot more, The upmost rules here keep getting A guy like me banned by saying true things now and then about people who deserve it

But it's all good, There's those who lead and those who just follow, Gentlemen I bid you a good Day.

babymick1

 

[JohnWhite]

No change of Heart here, I stand by everything I say or post and if we all were in the same room
you'd here a lot more, The upmost rules here keep getting A guy like me banned by saying true things now and then about people who deserve it

But it's all good, There's those who lead and those who just follow, Gentlemen I bid you a good Day.

babymick1

That is some sweet looking ore Babymick1...

 

[wrmickel1]

Now I got a confession to make, When I busted that piece up,there are little stringers of Silver in the Quarts it self

I confess in the hype of the moment the adrenaline rush I never noticed

Sorry for my mistake

babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

That is some sweet looking ore Babymick1...

Thanks John

 

[Cubfan64]

Well Gentlemen I'll Post it again

The only Photo of Thermal Compressed Dutchman Ore


View attachment 1535127


Set. Love. Matchbox


View attachment 1535128

Now that match box in natural light does look a lot like mine.

whoooooooooooooo. As Ric Flair Would Say

babymick1

That looks more like what I picture from John Reed's description of the gold ore he claims he and his father took out of the Superstitions. Interesting looking for sure.

 

[wrmickel1]

That looks more like what I picture from John Reed's description of the gold ore he claims he and his father took out of the Superstitions. Interesting looking for sure.

Who's this Reed's guy, where are the pic's if any.

Thanks Sir. Babymick1