The Pit Mine, the LDM, Kochera and the Nugget of Truth video.

[Oroblanco]

PS Barry Storm passed away in 1971, so the only way to get any information from him is through the books and magazines.

 

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[azdave35]

PS Barry Storm passed away in 1971, so the only way to get any information from him is through the books and magazines.

first thing to remember about barry storm....his initials are b.s .....just saying

 

[Loke]

So of it were in fact rose quartz - the Wagoner's ledge starts to be interesting again. I know it's a good distance from the pit mine, but it _could_ be the same geological event?

 

[wrmickel1]

Thanks Mick, however I don't see any reason to doubt the matchbox ore as coming from the Dutchman's mine. Holmes had it made and claimed it came from the ore he had got from Waltz. Why would he have a piece of ore made into the matchbox, if he was lying? It would not make any sense.

I also don't put my trust in what others say, I prefer to get as close to the original as possible, there is less chance for errors and lies to get into the mix. That said, there are some excellent modern books, like the works of Dr Glover just mentioned, as well as a few others.

Thanks for letting me know where you got the rose/red quartz version.



Please do continue,

Thats were your to trusting and many others.

So tell me why Holmes was not on the original hunt.

Missing from that, Why he never was apart of the original source, Trying to follow Waltz most likely True.
But that's about it. Now tell me the big one why is there a horse on Julia's Map.

See I never looked for the Dutchman's Mine, It found me. The Peralta Stones that some say Travis Made are my game.
Some people are about to be served up some crow and I'm the Chef!

babymick1

Vindicated

 

[wrmickel1]

first thing to remember about barry storm....his initials are b.s .....just saying

But did berry claim to have found some and what color.

babymick1

 

[azdave35]

So of it were in fact rose quartz - the Wagoner's ledge starts to be interesting again. I know it's a good distance from the pit mine, but it _could_ be the same geological event?

i'm not sure anyone ever really saw any of wagoners ore...

 

[Oroblanco]

first thing to remember about barry storm....his initials are b.s .....just saying

I never said I put a lot of trust in Barry Storm, just that he died in '71. He was a promoter, with all that goes with a promoter.

Loke wrote

So of it were in fact rose quartz - the Wagoner's ledge starts to be interesting again. I know it's a good distance from the pit mine, but it _could_ be the same geological event?

Hmm how do you know how far away Wagoner's ledge is from the Pit mine?

Wrmickel1 wrote

Thats were your to trusting and many others.

So tell me why Holmes was not on the original hunt.

Missing from that, Why he never was apart of the original source, Trying to follow Waltz most likely True.
But that's about it. Now tell me the big one why is there a horse on Julia's Map.

See I never looked for the Dutchman's Mine, It found me. The Peralta Stones that some say Travis Made are my game.
Some people are about to be served up some crow and I'm the Chef!

babymick1

I never said I put my trust in Barry Storm, in fact I only trust a very few people on the planet, and I even question the Bible. Don't assume what I might be putting faith in. Holmes was very definitely 'in on' the very first searches for the LDM, he went out as soon as he knew the Dutchman was dead, and according to the manuscript, had even attempted to trail Waltz to his mine. Who knows why Julia put a horse on her map, she drew a number of them and sold them for extra money.

Wrmickel1 also wrote

But did berry claim to have found some and what color.

Why don't you read what he wrote himself and find out?

Now on the rose quartz thing, for our readers that don't know what we are talking about, here is a shot of gold in ROSE quartz

Compare to the famous matchbox

a better photo

Does that matchbox look like it is ROSE quartz to you?

Please do continue;

 

[deducer]

i have tried to explain this before but i guess you have to be a miner or an assayer to understand....every one of the larger gold mines have many different veins and ores...just because a certain ore sample doesn't match a sample from a mine ..doesn't mean it didn't come from that mine...the mammoth..bulldog..black queen..golden hillside...all on the same fault line but all have different ore from the other mines on the fault line....and every one of those mines has different ores though out that mine....if you guys want to continue beating your heads against the wall...i guess its your head...but you wont get anywhere...just saying

Hi Dave,

This argument over the Pit Mine = LDM is, for me, similar to the argument over the Stone Maps enigma, in which people who label the Stone Maps as forgeries, or claim to have "found" the solution, are unable or refuse to acknowledge all the artifacts/clues associated with the Stone Maps, including the Stone Crosses, the Latin Heart, and especially the cursum perficio which predates Travis Tumlinson by a few decades. They also refuse to acknowledge or account for the gigantic scrapings found down by Twin Buttes.

Similarly, those making the arguments that Pit Mine = LDM, are leaving out quite a number of factors, and the associated clues/legends in regard to the LDM, including the Two Soldiers tale, the Deering story, and the Doc Thorne account. There is, as somehiker (Wayne) has pointed out, numerous claims in the area of the Pit Mine predating Waltz, in the area which would make it next to impossible for Waltz not to have been spotted coming to, or from, or working his claim in absolute secrecy.

As with the Stone Maps, nothing makes sense until you know and understand the exact area to which everything refers to. Then and only then, does everything fall neatly into place. There is such a place in the Superstitions where the Waltz, Two Soldiers, Deering, and Thorne stories fit perfectly- and only when you see it will you understand why the Two Soldiers and Deering talk about the trick in the trail, but Waltz doesn't.

 

[wrmickel1]

I never said I put a lot of trust in Barry Storm, just that he died in '71. He was a promoter, with all that goes with a promoter.

Loke wrote


Hmm how do you know how far away Wagoner's ledge is from the Pit mine?

Wrmickel1 wrote


I never said I put my trust in Barry Storm, in fact I only trust a very few people on the planet, and I even question the Bible. Don't assume what I might be putting faith in. Holmes was very definitely 'in on' the very first searches for the LDM, he went out as soon as he knew the Dutchman was dead, and according to the manuscript, had even attempted to trail Waltz to his mine. Who knows why Julia put a horse on her map, she drew a number of them and sold them for extra money.

Wrmickel1 also wrote


Why don't you read what he wrote himself and find out?

Now on the rose quartz thing, for our readers that don't know what we are talking about, here is a shot of gold in ROSE quartz

Compare to the famous matchbox

a better photo

Does that matchbox look like it is ROSE quartz to you?

Please do continue;

The first pic does, The second No, White

The gold structure is different then mine to.

And there's know known evidence to where the gold came from that made that box.
You know who made it and where, And who sold it, But the character of that person is.
questionable. So he followed Waltz trying to claim jump, He stoled the gold by ram sagging A dead man's house.
He was not on the Julia Train.

So your point is!

You trust to much garbage in the mix,

First source Waltz,
2nd Julia and Company/ inner circle
Holmes 3rd source / Outer circle

I ready don't understand your logic in putting
Holmes as your choice to the one you would believe most.

Julia put a horse on that map because it was told to her for a reason I suppose by Waltz.

And yes I don't read much because I never stop moving long enough to do so.
but Joe usually say's the answer, but I still don't know if BS ever claimed to have found any gold
and what Color,

babymick1

 

[markmar]

Mick 1

You wrote : " See I never looked for the Dutchman's Mine, It found me. The Peralta Stones that some say Travis Made are my game.
Some people are about to be served up some crow and I'm the Chef! " .

If you are the Chef , then better " eat a big piece than speak a big word " ( Greek proverb ) . Be careful , because at the end , maybe you will be served a sea gull soup .

 

[wrmickel1]

Oroblanco

You should be proud I was forced to read,

Barry Storm was born on the same day as me 6/4/1910 fifty Two years apart of course.
And he new Goldwater and he inspired a fellow TNer Joe and Chuck, and claimed he found 28oz of Gold, but still the color of the Ore yet escapes me.

alittle more digging in order.

Shame on you for this history lesson, for now I have a Jaded Mine

babymick1

 

[markmar]

And if Waltz had sources of gold in rose quartz , I believe he had . There is a clue that says how beside the 18'' gold vein is a smaller vein in hematite quartz . Or maybe there , around his mines , could exists an outcrop of gold in rose quartz .
Also , Injumbro ( TN member ) a half Apache breed , wrote in one of the LDM threads , how when he was in the Supes about 30 years ago with few Apache elders/Hataali for a ceremony close to the sacred cave , the elders showed to him a place where Waltz took gold in rose quartz .
If the matchbox hasn't prominent rose quartz , that doesn't means how Waltz didn't mined gold in rose quartz .

 

[markmar]

Matthew

Where is that Camp mine ?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Matthew

Where is that Camp mine ?

markmar,

When TE Glover did his ore comparison testing with the known Dutchman ore in 1998 he used 4 ore samples that came out of known mines: Vulture mine, Black Queen mine, Mammoth mine, Bulldog mine.

Glover also used 2 ore samples that came from unknown mines: Kochera ore, and an ore that Glover himself named, "Camp ore". The "Camp ore" sample ended up being the closest match to known Dutchman ore.

Matthew

 

[wrmickel1]

markmar,

When TE Glover did his ore comparison testing with the known Dutchman ore in 1998 he used 4 ore samples that came out of known mines: Vulture mine, Black Queen mine, Mammoth mine, Bulldog mine.

Glover also used 2 ore samples that came from unknown mines: Kochera ore, and an ore that Glover himself named, "Camp ore". The "Camp ore" sample ended up being the closest match to known Dutchman ore.

Matthew

So Mr Glover had no published record of we're the ore came from, but he must have a Unpublished notion to include it in the mix. So Mr. Glover Inlighten us all on its source, its original.

babymick1

 

[markmar]

markmar,

When TE Glover did his ore comparison testing with the known Dutchman ore in 1998 he used 4 ore samples that came out of known mines: Vulture mine, Black Queen mine, Mammoth mine, Bulldog mine.

Glover also used 2 ore samples that came from unknown mines: Kochera ore, and an ore that Glover himself named, "Camp ore". The "Camp ore" sample ended up being the closest match to known Dutchman ore.

Matthew

Exists a picture of the " camp "ore ?

 

[wrmickel1]

Now I've heard a lot of people throw up a wall when someone questions Mr. Glovers word but isn't this just another perpetrated trick that's been used by so many other book writers. He knows the origin of the gold.
It just puts him in the yarn, To Me

Is there know honestly among any of them.

babymick1

 

[markmar]

Matthew

To guess how that " camp " ore came from the camp that discovered an Army scout in the 19th century , following the tracks of a massacre ?

 

[cactusjumper]

But did berry claim to have found some and what color.

babymick1

BM,

On page 109 of the first edition of "Thunder Gods Gold" 1945, Storm wrote, "I picked it up, saw that it was flint-like Quartz speckled with iron pyrite and gold, hefted its unusual weight exultantly in my hand. Bonanza stuff!". That is the only description I recall, and no picture was included in the book. Page 115 contains the top of an assay report with a picture of Storm in Boulder Canyon.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Now I've heard a lot of people throw up a wall when someone questions Mr. Glovers word but isn't this just another perpetrated trick that's been used by so many other book writers. He knows the origin of the gold.
It just puts him in the yarn, To Me

Is there know honestly among any of them.

babymick1

BM.

Most Dutch Hunters respect Dr. Glover's work, and it is deserved. No one is perfect, but Thomas has done a lot of our work for us.

Good luck,

Joe