The Pit Mine Seen By Maria Rables

[skyhawk1251]

... The woman's name was Maria Rables, and she was a widow. We found her living in the mining camp of Big Bug, near Humboldt, where she was taking in boarders. She was an intelligent woman, and she talked freely. Her story proved interesting indeed. She told us that, as a girl of fourteen, she had ridden a mule from Sonora to a gold mine in the Superstition Mountains of Arizona in the company of her sweetheart, Juan Gonzales ...

Maria said that Gonzales and his partners brought gold up from a pozo (shaft), working in their bare feet and climbing short ladders, which stood on terraces. They carried the ore in sacks slung over their backs and supported by straps around their foreheads. The material thus brought up was passed through a sieve, and Maria told us that she would amuse herself by taking some of it in her hand and blowing the waste away and then holding the gold in her palm. The gold was in small particles, like wheat grains ...

I asked her to tell Jim and me about the region in which she saw the mine. She said that they had gone up a trail by a peak, which we recognized from her description as the tortuous horseback trail by Minor's Needle from Bark Valley. As to the direction they followed from the summit, Maria said that they went down over a falda (slope). She repeated the word many times. This meant that they went north as far as Le Barge Canyon.

"What did you see there?" I asked. And Maria answered that in the background, a few miles away, there were three peaks, the middle one being the farthest away.

Jim and I recognized these peaks -- they mark the summit of a long arm extending northwest from Tortilla Mountain, which has an altitude of five thousand feet. Indeed, so vivid were Maria's memories of the terrain, so candid her answers, that we had no doubt that she, too, had seen and held in her hand the gold of the Lost Dutchman. -- "The Lost Dutchman Mine" (Chapter 13) by Sims Ely.

Could this be the pit described by Maria Rables, now mostly back-filled? The pit's location is indicated in the images below by placemarks. Were the three peaks she saw on the ridgeline extending northwest from Tortilla Mountain, as Sims Ely wrote in his book? Was the pit seen by Maria Rables not the Lost Dutchman mine, but a paleoplacer deposit? Did Alva Reser and Roy Bradford, who prospected this site, fail to find anything, because they didn't dig deep enough?

 

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[markmar]

Skyhawk

I see you returned to one of your primarly site of interest. I believe Bradford chose that location because has been lured by the Gonzalez map, just after he met Gonzalez in LaBarge upper box, and little after the Ruth's death.
Jim Bark and Dick Holmes, have had anough clues to find the LDM inclined shaft described by Maria Rables, but IMHO they made the same mistake like all the others who have had all the oral clues together. They all looked afar and high.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Skyhawk,

To answer your question, "was the pit seen by Maria Rables (more likely Robles) not the Lost Dutchman Mine"? It was far from it, she described the gold as small particles, like wheat grains. Jacob Waltz had very rich gold in quartz under his death bed.

Homar

 

[skyhawk1251]

Howdy Skyhawk,

To answer your question, "was the pit seen by Maria Rables (more likely Robles) not the Lost Dutchman Mine"? It was far from it, she described the gold as small particles, like wheat grains. Jacob Waltz had very rich gold in quartz under his death bed.

Homar

Those were also my thoughts. The LDM is a lode mine with free-mill gold. The ore had to be crushed to separate the gold from the quartz. The gold in Maria's pit mine is described as being more like placer gold -- deeply buried, but placer gold, nevertheless. So, glad you agree that Maria's pit mine was not the LDM. I guess that means another mine and more gold are yet to be found. I'd say that's good news for all Dutch hunters.

 

[markmar]

For those who forgot and are little confused:

We have Waltz clue which says the mine has a 18" vein of gold in quartz and a 9" vein of gold in hematite. This was the description of " his " mine before moving to the drift made by the Mexicans.
Here are two pictures of selected texts from John Deer story in regards to the LDM inclined shaft, story written down by Clay Worst who has heard it from John Reed himself.
IMHO, it's easiest and smarter to scratch the soft hematite gold vein than hammering the gold in quartz vein. As Mexicans ( Maria Robles story ), to go silent would been a good idea in a hostile and foreign country. Also easiest to extract the gold from the soft vein.

 

[Steve Bowser]

Could this be the pit described by Maria Rables, now mostly back-filled? The pit's location is indicated in the images below by placemarks. Were the three peaks she saw on the ridgeline extending northwest from Tortilla Mountain, as Sims Ely wrote in his book? Was the pit seen by Maria Rables not the Lost Dutchman mine, but a paleoplacer deposit? Did Alva Reser and Roy Bradford, who prospected this site, fail to find anything, because they didn't dig deep enough?

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Hello Skyhawk1251,

Just so I'm in tune with the location of where you believe the Maria Robles pit may be, is what looks like a pit in your third image very close to the Bradford/Reser Camp site in upper Deering Canyon?

Thanks, Steve

 

[skyhawk1251]

Hello Skyhawk1251,

Just so I'm in tune with the location of where you believe the Maria Robles pit may be, is what looks like a pit in your third image very close to the Bradford/Reser Camp site in upper Deering Canyon?

Thanks, Steve

The third image does show the site of the Bradford/Reser camp. What I was hoping for by sending my first post is that someone might suggest a possible location for Maria's pit mine, keeping in mind what Sims Ely wrote about the three peaks and Tortilla Mountain. From the Bradford/Reser site, it looks like there is a clear line-of-sight view to Tortilla Mountain and the peaks extending to the northwest from it. Any other possibilities would be welcome.

 

[skyhawk1251]

For those who forgot and are little confused:

We have Waltz clue which says the mine has a 18" vein of gold in quartz and a 9" vein of gold in hematite. This was the description of " his " mine before moving to the drift made by the Mexicans.
Here are two pictures of selected texts from John Deer story in regards to the LDM inclined shaft, story written down by Clay Worst who has heard it from John Reed himself.
IMHO, it's easiest and smarter to scratch the soft hematite gold vein than hammering the gold in quartz vein. As Mexicans ( Maria Robles story ), to go silent would been a good idea in a hostile and foreign country. Also easiest to extract the gold from the soft vein.

Another excellent post, Markmar. Those who are interested might want to follow Jeff Williams on YouTube and his mining of a paleoplacer gold deposit. He is recovering nuggets deep below ground mostly embedded in clay layered above caliche. The gold was deposited in an ancient river bed.

 

[Steve Bowser]

The third image does show the site of the Bradford/Reser camp. What I was hoping for by sending my first post is that someone might suggest a possible location for Maria's pit mine, keeping in mind what Sims Ely wrote about the three peaks and Tortilla Mountain. From the Bradford/Reser site, it looks like there is a clear line-of-sight view to Tortilla Mountain and the peaks extending to the northwest from it. Any other possibilities would be welcome.

Thanks for your reply, so your third image is very close to the Bradford/Reser Camp site in upper Deering Canyon and is not meant to identify a pit.

I've attached my photo of Tortilla Mountain looking east from peak 4229 on Malapais Mountain, which is just northwest of the Bradford/Reser camp site. You can also climb peak 3361 which is right above the Bradford/Reser camp site for a line-of-sight view to Tortilla Mountain but I think peak 4429 is over a thousand feet higher and maybe provides a better perspective.

 

[skyhawk1251]

Here's an example of why nobody will ever find the LDM by only using Google Earth. I've taken Steve's on-the-ground photo, then zoomed and cropped it to show a feature with three peaks. The same feature is then shown in a GE image. The photo and GE image look nothing alike.

Now, back to Maria Rables and the pit mine. Could this three-peaked feature be what Maria described? Notice in the wide-angle GE image that the middle peak is the farthest away (red box). Extending a line-of-sight view toward LaBarge Canyon, and where the three peaks could be seen miles away, makes Black Mountain a possible end point. Recall the tale about the Indian getting very nervous and refusing to go any farther as he approached Black Mountain and it's possible to see how these two tales could be intertwined. Something to think about ...

 

[markmar]

Skyhawk

I see you are searching north to northeast from something. You have to think about the location of the LDM. Remember how from the mine Weavers Needle could be seen to the south, but Four Peaks could be seen only from the highest point above the mine.
So IMHO, any background image from the mine would be to the south.

 

[markmar]

Skyhawk

I see you are searching north to northeast from something. You have to think about the location of the LDM. Remember how from the mine Weavers Needle could be seen to the south, but Four Peaks could be seen only from the highest point above the mine.
So IMHO, any background image from the mine would be to the south.

Also, a few miles background, prompts to a ground depression or to a low level location of the mine.

 

[Doc4261]

Here's an example of why nobody will ever find the LDM by only using Google Earth. I've taken Steve's on-the-ground photo, then zoomed and cropped it to show a feature with three peaks. The same feature is then shown in a GE image. The photo and GE image look nothing alike.

Now, back to Maria Rables and the pit mine. Could this three-peaked feature be what Maria described? Notice in the wide-angle GE image that the middle peak is the farthest away (red box). Extending a line-of-sight view toward LaBarge Canyon, and where the three peaks could be seen miles away, makes Black Mountain a possible end point. Recall the tale about the Indian getting very nervous and refusing to go any farther as he approached Black Mountain and it's possible to see how these two tales could be intertwined. Something to think about ...

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Funny you show that mntn, there is a mine over there. This is the closest I could narrow it down without boots on the ground. Always thought it would be a fun trip to look for it. But doubt now I will ever get the chance. So sharing my thoughts on some of my research over the years. Also thought maybe it was where NP had found his mine from his sparse clues. Ya never know.

 

[markmar]

Funny you show that mntn, there is a mine over there. This is the closest I could narrow it down without boots on the ground. Always thought it would be a fun trip to look for it. But doubt now I will ever get the chance. So sharing my thoughts on some of my research over the years. Also thought maybe it was where NP had found his mine from his sparse clues. Ya never know.

There is a mine, because Mike Bilbry had some mining claims in that region.

 

[Doc4261]

There is a mine, because Mike Bilbry had some mining claims in that region.

Yeah im not sure it was the one he found, when I narrow it down it looks like was off his claims. I originally thought it was on the otherside of the mntn as shown . but its not. It very well could of been the mine he found. Would be nice to have the location of his exact mine he found.

 

[skyhawk1251]

A possible mine site? Just a guess at first glance. GPS coordinates are at the bottom of the GE images.

 

[markmar]

A possible mine site? Just a guess at first glance. GPS coordinates are at the bottom of the GE images.

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It's very close to the place where Jasse Capen fell to his death from the cliffs above.

 

[markmar]

Also, a few miles background, prompts to a ground depression or to a low level location of the mine.

Don't forget the Military Trail clue, because it's a principal one. IMHO, it's in the same direction with the three peaks from the mine.