THE OLD DAYS & THEORIES****************

[Crispin]

It's just easier for people to take pills and with all the ones you see advertised anymore they think that they are a cure all.. Nothing beats a hot shower and some soup and a good nights sleep..

If this gives relief from the symptoms, go for it!

 

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[pong12211]

1. "Colds" is a broad term used to describe a group of viruses. I can't remember the exact number, but somewhere between 16-20 separate viruses in the US are considered colds. The two most common currently are the Norovirus and Rotavirus.
2. We have no treatment for the common "cold." Antibiotics do not treat them. We can only treat the symptoms...tylenol for aches, pains, fever, etc..
3. Taking OTC meds for symptom relief will not alter the duration of the illness or your immune system; although, it may help you feel better. Just a matter of personal preference.
4. Current recommendation for cold like symptoms is to wait two weeks before you see a doctor. If it has not run its course by then something else is going on.

Very informative post.. I had no idea that there was that many viruses out there that caused a cold always thought a cold was just a cold.. Learn something new everyday I guess this is mine for the day...

 

[Crispin]

Well crisp what is your explanation on the Indian tribes that survived? with out great Phrma. seems they had a great run. Until we showed up.

Now we are talking about a totally different thing then the "common cold." Measles, mumps, rubella, small pox, chicken pox, influenza and others decimated the Native American population because their immune systems had never been exposed to them. It rapidly killed off a large percentage of the population...but not all. The ones who survived had "more fit" immune systems. As sad as it sounds...this was natural selection.

The same process of natural selection had already occurred throughout Europe as people had been exposed to those viruses for 100s of years. Thus, the ones that survived had stronger immune systems and lived to pass on their DNA.

However, countless numbers died from epidemics as well. The Bubonic Plague (yersinia pestis) was said to have killed something like 1/4 to 1/2 of the population in Europe. Other outbreaks had staggering death totals as well. What made the decimation of American Indians unique is that they got exposed to all of those viruses at one time for the first time.

A better question: Why didn't the American Indians have viral illnesses that killed the explorers? For some reason, it appears the most deadly viruses were centralized to Europe during that time period. One explanation is that most European cities were filth and squallor. Those conditions let the viruses thrive. The lifestyle of American Indians was much purer and cleaner. Plus, if an area got infected they would migrate elsewhere. Not something London could do. This is just one theory.

Onfire: Good question, as usual from you.

 

[Crispin]

stockpicker,

Agree on the life expectancy thing big time.....I came from a farm family of 9......mostly home remedies back in the day....

Why?? not an issue of not trusting the medical profession.....just not enough money around beyond the basics.....I had an older brother who passed away before I was born due to scarlet fever.....doubt if if even exists today or to a minimal degree.

Regards + HH

Bill

Bill,

Scarlet fever is a secondary infection that occurs if Strept throat goes untreated (Streptococcal pharyngitis.) This is one BACTERIA in a larger group called Group A Streptococcus. Bacteria can usually be treated with antibiotics. Pennicillin is the first antibiotic known and it was discovered by accident. There are theories that Egypatians and other older cultures had already discovered this...but it was burned (as stockpicker points out.)

Anyhow, the most dangerous part of Scarlet fever are bacterial plaques that form on the Mitral Valve of the heart and then flick off to the rest of the body. Untreated strept throat and scarlet fever can lead to death. I have only seen one case. Of course, I'm not an infectious disease doctor either.

In my opinion: The single most important discovery of the 20th century that lead to increased lifespan of humans is...you guessed it...antibiotics.

Crispin

 

[GrizLeeBear]

Mistrust of government has always been with us. But this mistrust of science and medicine is a little bit new In my opinion. We used to embrace the great advancement made by our scientists and doctors?? Why are some people now distrustful/afraid of science and medicine - is it just fear of change and what we don't understand? Is science and medicine now seen as being something liberal for some reason? Would live to hear any opinions.

I don't see the medical establishment as being overly liberal. I think the problem is that insurance companies and the government, through such programs as Medicare or Medicade, have taken the emphasis off solutions first. I go see my doctor and we are more or less limited to discussing one thing. I feel we are on a clock from the moment I walk in. A doctor wants to do a test and they have to get permission. There are certain tests that should be done on people. But in a book somewhere it says that this test can only be done once a year or every five years. It is wrong to lump all people into one set of rules. What works for me may not be right for the next person. I want to see the control back in the hands of doctors instead of clerks at insurance companies. I regularly get calls and letters from my insurance company telling me I should change medications so I can save themk money...and they have never even seen me. I have more faith in my doctor than an insurance company clerk. I know I am not the only one who feels this way. Just sit in the waiting room and listen to the patients talk.

 

[Frankn]

Bill,

Scarlet fever is a secondary infection that occurs if Strept throat goes untreated (Streptococcal pharyngitis.) This is one BACTERIA in a larger group called Group A Streptococcus. Bacteria can usually be treated with antibiotics. Pennicillin is the first antibiotic known and it was discovered by accident. There are theories that Egypatians and other older cultures had already discovered this...but it was burned (as stockpicker points out.)

Anyhow, the most dangerous part of Scarlet fever are bacterial plaques that form on the Mitral Valve of the heart and then flick off to the rest of the body. Untreated strept throat and scarlet fever can lead to death. I have only seen one case. Of course, I'm not an infectious disease doctor either.

In my opinion: The single most important discovery of the 20th century that lead to increased lifespan of humans is...you guessed it...antibiotics.

Crispin

Why are there no antiviruses? Is the organism to diversified or complicated? Frank

 

[Crispin]

Why are there no antiviruses? Is the organism to diversified or complicated? Frank

View attachment 736232

Don't confuse bacteria with viruses. Our bodies do not build up immunity to bacteria. You could get strept or staph over and over and over. Each time the body has to mount an immune response as if it was the first time.

With viruses we build up immunity (or anti-virals.) In general, if you get a virus once and survive it, you will not get it again. Of course the common cold virus mutates so much that it can evade our defenses. Let me shift to bullet form:
1. Smallpox was such a lethal virus that not too many people survived. Those that did survive developed immunity.
2. Immunity occurs when your body identifies the virus in the body very, very quickly. It mounts a rapid defense with T cells and B cells to eradicate it from the body before it becomes a problem.
3. HIV has no cure or vaccine because it infects the cells that destroy viruses...T cells. Hence, people with full blown AIDs get rare infections that are only seen in immunocomprimed hosts.
4. People who survive smallpox have better immune systems, they are more likely to pass on these genes...hence natural selection. This is why you didn't see the massive death tolls in Eurpoe at any one time with smallpox.

More on immunity:
1. Vaccines work by injecting the dead virus or part of th live virus into the person.
2. The concept is that the body recognizes the virus, establishes immunity, and they can't get infected again via previously mentioned mechanisms.
3. Chickenpox or Shingles: This is herpes varicella zoster. This is never completely eliminated from the body. Shingles is not a reinfection of herpes zoster but a reactivation. Anybody who has ever had chickenpox currently has varicella zoster living in the dorsal root ganglion of some nerve roots. Our immune system keeps it suppressed, but if our immune system gets compromised it can emerge. Hence, why elderly get shingles. As we age our immune system weakens. However, anybody age can have shingles.
4. Salk invented the Polio Virus by getting the immune system to recognize part of the virus without given the infection. He tested it on himself and his family first. It was a live virus at that time, so it did give some people Polio. Theoretically that was impossible but the virus mutated in people's bodies or incorporated itself into human genomes.
5. Salk revolutionized medicine. Polio is now considered eradicated from the US.

Let me take a break here. Is this too confusing? Any questions for clarification? Anybody want to bring up fake sheep skins(now is the time?)

 

[truckinbutch]

It's just easier for people to take pills and with all the ones you see advertised anymore they think that they are a cure all.. Nothing beats a hot shower and some soup and a good nights sleep..

Eat healthy , live life every day .Attitude does count . Drink a little booze . DON'T run to the ER or dr's office at the first sniffle expecting a magic pill or shot to make it go away . The real medical professionals are so overwhelmed with whiners that they have little time to devote to the folks that can be actually helped by medical attention .

 

[0121stockpicker]

Eat healthy , live life every day .Attitude does count . Drink a little booze . DON'T run to the ER or dr's office at the first sniffle expecting a magic pill or shot to make it go away . The real medical professionals are so overwhelmed with whiners that they have little time to devote to the folks that can be actually helped by medical attention .

I avoid the drs office and hospital like the plague. I fully believe in modern medicine, but i believe those offices are crawling with all sorts of sicknesses and drug resistant bugs. Don't want to sound like a conspiracy kook but I am a firm believer. My grandfather went in for a minor surgery and got staf and died.

Best

 

[Crispin]

I avoid the drs office and hospital like the plague. I fully believe in modern medicine, but i believe those offices are crawling with all sorts of sicknesses and drug resistant bugs. Don't want to sound like a conspiracy kook but I am a firm believer. My grandfather went in for a minor surgery and got staf and died.

Best

Stockpicker: Sorry to hear about your grandfather. There is a lot of truth to what you and TruckinButch said. Hospitals are teeming with MRSA, C. diff, and antibiotic resistant strep pneumo. You get one of those and you are probably colonized forever. People die in hospitals all the time, sometimes they would have been better off if they never went in. You would not believe the mistakes I have seen and the unnecessary complications that followed. Avoid hospitals whenever you can...just don't let a serious medical problem go untreated. Sometimes the difference between life and death is 24 hours of care at a hospital. Can't tell you how many times I've heard, "we could have saved him if he had just come 24 hours earlier."

Crispin

 

[truckinbutch]

Stockpicker: Sorry to hear about your grandfather. There is a lot of truth to what you and TruckinButch said. Hospitals are teeming with MRSA, C. diff, and antibiotic resistant strep pneumo. You get one of those and you are probably colonized forever. People die in hospitals all the time, sometimes they would have been better off if they never went in. You would not believe the mistakes I have seen and the unnecessary complications that followed. Avoid hospitals whenever you can...just don't let a serious medical problem go untreated. Sometimes the difference between life and death is 24 hours of care at a hospital. Can't tell you how many times I've heard, "we could have saved him if he had just come 24 hours earlier."

Crispin

My son has MRSA to deal with for the rest of his life . Contracted during an ER visit . Other side of the coin - I noticed some progressive anomalies in my own body . Told my primary that I needed immediate close scrutiny by a specialist . 10 years with her gave me enough creds that she got me pushed to the front of the line for a colonoscopy . That 30 min procedure turned into 2 hours of surgery and a second surgery 2 weeks later to get the rest of the tumor at the end of my colon . Just in time . 3 month post op biopsy was cancer free .
The normal 3 month scheduling wait for the initial procedure would have been disastrous for me .

 

[spartacus53]

Well the good news is that you can only catch a specific cold just once, then you are immune to the germ, the bad news is that there are thousands of these germs to make you sick. Rest and plenty of fluids is the way to go. Chicken noodle soup is one of the best sources to get electrolytes that will assist in recovery time. Also, instead of orange juice, switch to lemonade for a higher dose of vitamin C. IF I feel a cold coming on I drink 2 quarts and go to sleep, usually wake up feeling pretty good too.