The Offer

[63bkpkr]

Hi Frankn,
A buddy and I were out once dispatching ground squirrels. We stopped at a ranchers house to ask permission to go on his property to shoot. He told me no. In turn I thanked him for his time, and I do mean I meant it, and I turned to leave took several steps and he called me back. He told me you know usually I have to go out and get tresspassers to leave my property but here you've come and asked me and thanked me for telling you no. Yes, you can go on my property and shoot but make sure you close any gates you go through.

All people, that's us all of us, react to things in different ways, who knows where he's coming from. It is possible that a face to face meeting with the man, being honest with him, letting him get used to you, having a hopefully first good impression take place, will make a signifigant difference for him. Then again maybe he's had a hard life or maybe he's made his life hard so he is reacting to his take on life. I think we are talking about mind games here so I think a face to face could be a good thing, at least it could give you a better feel for who you are trying to deal with. Then again, large sums of money seem to cause a variety of protective thoughts and reactions amongst us bipedal vertical folks. Good Success........63bkpkr

 

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[Frankn]

63Bkpkr, I see we have similar views on life. I am getting the MH set up for the trip.

 

[Frankn]

Last ditch effort! I sent a final E Mail explaning that the cache could be on 3 possible properties. The one to the North is highly unlikely, but the other two have almost an equal chance of containing it. I offered a 4 way equal split, that is 1/4 to each of the property owners and 1/4 each to my partner and myself if it is found on either property. This gives the property owners a bit of "insurance". If this doesn't work out, I will just drive up an deal with the owner that gives permission.

 

[allen_idaho]

Ok. After wading through the 37 long, boring pages of this thread, it really seems like you are making some big mistakes, Frank.

Your first and biggest mistake is that you are putting a value on something you haven't found. Rookie mistake. There are too many variables in play. The historical record on the cache could be wrong. Some or all of it could have been lost or destroyed over time. It could have been found years ago without it ever being reported. It could have been moved. It could not exist at all.

Your second mistake is that you are not favoring the property owner. Never screw over the property owner. Ever. He could keep you off the property for the rest of your life or even worse, let you on the property, wait for you to dig up the cache and then shoot you for trespassing.

50/50 is probably the only way to go. Anything found on his land is technically his property. You can try suggesting the 3-way split first. Maybe you will get lucky. But if he doesn't go for it, you can always bump up the offer to 50/50 (50 for the owner, 25 for you, 25 for your partner).

You can't expect a bigger share simply because you put the time and money into finding the cache. The property owner didn't ask you to do it. You did it of your own accord. He cannot be held accountable for that. That would be like paying to start a mining claim, not finding any gold and expecting to be paid for your time.

Your third mistake is claiming some "catch-22" or otherwise priviledged information that you know in regards to locating the cache. When people say this, it is usually a lie to obtain leverage. And it always kicks the needle on the bull-sh!t-o-meter up a few notches. Don't ever say that.

 

[mlayers]

agree with the 50/50 if you find it he dosen't know what the cache is. Just tell him he got 50%.

 

[2screwed]

Frankn, I have read the entire thread and would like to say upfront that I am not a cache hunter but I am a land owner. If I was the land owner my thought process from start to finish would go something like this:

1) Hmmm, interesting email/letter. There might be a treasure on my property huh. I don't know this guy so is it real? he's offering me a 3 way split with him and his partner that would be 50k to me, I'll think about it.
2) I've thought about it and I am going to tell him I want the split to be 50/50.(Had it really been me I would have told you 60/40 but settled for 40/60.)
3)Well he didn't go for the 50/50 split but its my land and he gets nothing if I don't let him on it. I'll let him stew in his own juices and see if he comes around to my way of seeing things.

A few months go by....

4) Another letter from him, lets see what he has to say.
5)What the...!!! Now he's telling me my 1/3 share of the treasure could be 4,000,000. WOW!
6)Wait a minute, first he tells me my share could be 50,000 now he tells me it could be 4,000,000. Either he lied to me in the first place and was trying to screw me over, or he's full of bs and there isn't any treasure. Either way I don't want this guy any where near me or my property.

frankn, this is not meant to be anything personal against you. I am just pointing out what his thought process MIGHT be through this. Personally I hope you do manage to get the deal put together and find the treasure. I wish you all the luck in the world in that respect. Since you are obviously smart enough to keep your mouth shut if you hit the big one we will never really know the outcome of this search is.

 

[Frankn]

Think about it!

I know there are two ways to look at just about anything, so here goes.

2screwed:You might have read all the posts but you missed something. The orginal $150,000 statement was the amoun actually stated by the cashier of the cache. The estimated $12M is the estimated value of the gold content of $150K in $20 gold coins.

allen_idaho: When you make an offer it is almost pot luck if your first move is a good one. After you get a reply then it is more or less baseing your reply on the content of his. Everything has a value on it wheather theoretical or real. In most caches it is true that the value might be a wild guess, but in this case it is the actual amount placed in the ground. No I am not a rookie. I have many years of cache hunting behind me. In any business, research is not free. I don't know about you, but I put a value on my time. Why should I favor the land owner? He is the one getting the free ride. It's my time, money and effort that will produce the prize! If you read my last entry you should realise what the catch 22 is. It is the fact that it might not even be on his propety, but the next lot over.

There is a lot left unsaid here because this post is about the offer not a cache story. It is meant to be a guide to other cache hunters about making an offer with plenty of input from many. The offer just might be the hardest part of the hunt.

mlayers: Yep, turnabout is fair play.

Frank

 

[2screwed]

I know there are two ways to look at just about anything, so here goes.

2screwed:You might have read all the posts but you missed something. The orginal $150,000 statement was the amoun actually stated by the cashier of the cache. The estimated $12M is the estimated value of the gold content of $150K in $20 gold coins.

Frankn, I didn't miss a darn thing. Your the one who first told him his share could come to 50k.

You guys have to look at the time factor. Here's the situation. He bought this land cheap, close to the $50k offer.

Then you said you told him months later that his share could be 4 million.
I told you what my thought process would be if I was the land owner and if I was the land owner I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you after you did that.
Good luck in the hunt.
2s

 

[Gunrunner61]

In mho i think that there are only two parties,the landowner and you. It's not his fault that you have another person working with you,what if you had two working with you? Or three? No sir there are two parties, How you decide to split your half is your bussiness, But 50% belongs to the landowner.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

The land owner didn't get that land for free, so you can't exactly say all he has to do is sit back and collect while you do all the work. There was no doubt some hard work involved in paying for that land.

 

[Frankn]

rebound

Well, it was a long post and it jest vanished when I hit the picture button. Sorry about that. I never repost.

 

[Frankn]

Mabe never was to strong a word! a short repost.
2 screwed, I just explaned it! I will break it down for you 3 goes into 150,000 50,000 times hence the $50K figure.
The estimater value of $150,000 in $20 gold coins is app. $12M. Devided by 3 = $4M. The method of calculation was well explaned to him in the E Mails. Why are you confused?

Gunrunner61 Where I worked, when the job took 2 people to complete, both were paid. Are you suggesting paying one and telling him to split it with the other? There is an old saying in business "time is money".

Kache, The guy is a speculator. He bought the property for around $60K and will make a profit when he sells it. That has nothing to do with the cache. The time, money and effert that my partner put into it are directly relater to the cache. Can't you see the difference?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Mabe never was to strong a word! a short repost.
2 screwed, I just explaned it! I will break it down for you 3 goes into 150,000 50,000 times hence the $50K figure.
The estimater value of $150,000 in $20 gold coins is app. $12M. Devided by 3 = $4M. The method of calculation was well explaned to him in the E Mails. Why are you confused?

Gunrunner61 Where I worked, when the job took 2 people to complete, both were paid. Are you suggesting paying one and telling him to split it with the other? There is an old saying in business "time is money".

Kache, The guy is a speculator. He bought the property for around $60K and will make a profit when he sells it. That has nothing to do with the cache. The time, money and effert that my partner put into it are directly relater to the cache. Can't you see the difference?View attachment 625117

The point is, it belongs to him. And that 60,000 paid to purchase the land was his money, and I'm sure there was some work involved for him in earning that money. I do understand the work involved on your part, believe me, I know by experience. But the man who holds the land owns whatever is in the land, and has say over it.

 

[bigscoop]

I think what the others are saying to you is this Frank:

If the property owner applied your logic then he could easily say to you, and rightfully so by your own examples, "I have $60'000 and a lot of time and work involved in acquiring this property, plus taxes, upkeep, etc. I have way more time, money, and labor invested in this land then you do, so you should get less then me." And by your logic, he would have a darn good argument.

 

[2screwed]

Mabe never was to strong a word! a short repost.
2 screwed, I just explaned it! I will break it down for you 3 goes into 150,000 50,000 times hence the $50K figure.
The estimater value of $150,000 in $20 gold coins is app. $12M. Devided by 3 = $4M. The method of calculation was well explaned to him in the E Mails. Why are you confused?View attachment 625117

No sir I'm not confused, here are the amounts you posted as well as the dates you posted them:

Jan 17, 2012, 08:06 AM Post #9

I haven't gotten a second reply yet, but here is how I look at it. My partner and myself have put in months of computer and on the ground time to locate this cache. In the last part of the search it seemed hopeless untill I contacted a "specialist" in locating people and places. I had to offer him a 10% split to locate it. he found it in 2 days complete with present owners name and address. The present owner has nothing to loose in this deal if nothing is found, but my partner and I will have lost a lot. Why should my partner and I accept 25%each and the owner collect the lions share of 50%? At 1/3 the owner stands to pick up $50,000.
The way I look at it allocated shares only go to the actual work providers and the land owner.
When I work with a partner, I agree ahead of time if we are going to pool and split finds or keep what we each find. In this case there are 3 partners, my partner , the land owner, and I. Frank

You stated many times that you offered him a 1/3 split that would be 50K. No other amount is mentioned until you post this:

Feb 8, 2012, 02:31 PM Post #229

OK you guys the time is about up. I am going into the next phase. That is applying a little mental pressure to get things moving. I am going to advise them that the 1/3 split, if in paper money is worth $50,000 to them, but if I read the story correctly it is in $20 gold coins. In that case the 1/3 split would be worth app. $4,250,000 EACH. I think this might speed up a reply. Now I want to hear your opinions on this. Let me see your logic
Frank

Then 7 days later you post this:

Feb 15, 2012, 02:23 PM Post #262

I just E Mailed the owner of the first property today. The problem is the cache sits near the property line. I know the markings are on one property, but I don't know how far they go. Frank

I told you what I would be thinking if I was the land owner and you told me one amount and then came back at a later date and told me another. That is what you clearly did by the posts you made.
You sir have on many occasions been argumentative and condescending towards people who have posted their opinions (that you asked for) that you don't agree with. Don't waste my time or yours saying you haven't, like I said I have read the entire thread.
By the way, I know how to do simple arithmetic. I also know bull crap when I smell it.
have a good day.

 

[Sam 8]

Hey Frank...

Just keep with the plan...

 

[Frankn]

Kache, Yes he paid $60K for the land and only he will profit from that. I don't think his deed showed a cache on it so he really has nothing invested in the cache cost wise. I work out of a motorhome while cache hunting. It cost over $60K. that would about equal it out.

Bigscoop, how about that logic?

2 screwed, check your shoes! Sure I debate your posts. That is what this post is all about. There is no right or wrong on here, only opinions. You haven't seen the E Mails that I sent to him, that is why I tried to explane to you that one amount was the actual amount cached and the other amount was the current value in gold coins. Where is the deception?

Sam8 Its right on plan, but the options are getting thin.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Kache, Yes he paid $60K for the land and only he will profit from that. I don't think his deed showed a cache on it so he really has nothing invested in the cache cost wise. I work out of a motorhome while cache hunting. It cost over $60K. that would about equal it out.

Bigscoop, how about that logic?

The difference there is that the treasure is not buried in your motor home.

 

[Frankn]

Kache, You missed my point. He didn't buy the land to find the cache so it's not a cost he paid in connection with finding the cache. What I have invested in time, money and effert were in direct relation to finding the cache.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Kache, You missed my point. He didn't buy the land to find the cache so it's not a cost he paid in connection with finding the cache. What I have invested in time, money and effert were in direct relation to finding the cache.View attachment 625238

That's cool, whatever works for you, bro. I hope it works out for you and you find the cache.