the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry cant talk too much on this one

ivan salis

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Feb 5, 2007
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the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry can't talk too much on this one

the SAN MIGUEL (its religious name) aka "El Senora de la Popa" (its offical name --given to it by Capt General Echeverz --its "owner") or as it was "also" nick named 3 differant "names"--"LA GALERA" or "the galley" in spanish since it was a dutch "galera" type vessel---it was also called "LA HOLANDESA" --"the dutch" in spanish or simpily "Olandesa"---"dutch"---this ship of "many" names was caputed by Echeverz's pataches along with a french frigate often called "the french prize" or "EL CIERVO" as they raided along the coast of columbia while Echeverz's fleet sat in port in porto bello, panama in 1714 awaiting the "treasure mule trains" to deliver the treasure for shipment home---Echeverz got 50% of its value when it was auctioned and the spanish crown the other half---Echeverz most likely used his "prize" money from the french vessel to "pay" the 2000 pesos that he "paid" for the dutch vessel when it was sold in porto bello,panama---thus the vessel became "his" private vessel---and while no treasure was "offically" listed upon the manifest of this rather smallish vessel --I find it rather hard to believe that with no goods having been transported back home in over 4 years that the vessel left both panama and havana without having some goods of value being place upon it---(gold and silver smuggling was rampent during those days---the kings 20% tax saw to that) certainly Capt General Echeverz did not buy it to let it go unused and "shipping space" was very valuable in both ports I am quite sure it had things of value aboard it.-----Ivan
 

Re: the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry can't talk too much on this one

thanks I'm "sniffing" about--Ivan
 

Re: the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry can't talk too much on this one

aye I am a man of the sea---fer sure---aaarrrgghh---Ivan
 

Re: the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry can't talk too much on this one

Ivan,

Sounds like you should trace the current rightful successor/heir to general Echeverz. If he bought the ship personally, rather than in his position as General of the Fleet, then the legal owner of the wreck is his current heir, under the provisions of the 1902 Treaty.

It is suprisingly easy to trace descendents of prominent people, especially if you have the research skills that you seem to possess.

Good luck,

Mariner
 

Re: the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry can't talk too much on this one

the dutch "galera" (a galley type of vessel) or "La Galera" in spanish that was captured by Capt General Echeverz's pataches off of columbia that is known by the name Echeverz gave it --"Senora de la Popa" and also known as "La Holandesa" --""the dutch" or "Olandesa" ---"dutch"-- is "recorded" as being bought at auction by Capt General Echeverz in Porto Bello, Panama for 2000 pesos after it capture by his pataches---thus it was in fact Capt General Echeverz's "private" vessel---which was traveling with the fleet---Ivan
 

Re: the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry can't talk too much on this one

I just saw following on the Amelia Research web site.

Amelia Island Project E-102L: The San Miguel and the Ciervo, two 1715 fleet vessels believed to have been lost in Amelia Lease Project areas, have never been located. We believe one or both of these 1715 fleet vessels wrecked near the south end of Amelia Island Florida in an area protected by the Company's exclusive permits granted by the State of Florida. Details are in the following link to Amelia’s 2002 Report to the State of Florida, and a 1999 Summary of Amelia’s historical research of the San Miguel.

http://www.ameliaresearch.com/pages/main.htm
 

Re: the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry can't talk too much on this one

their leases cover most of amelia island from up north by the FT. CLINCH area on the northern tip to down to the southern part of the island where it is stopped by amelia island park and the dreaded "aquatic preserve zone" part of the talbot state parks---of course if I can get in to do the wreck at all---doug and gang will be "part" of it since we will need their highly specialized "shallow water type vessel" the polly L and actually I want to "hook" up with them on this project---and make it happen--capt
 

Re: the next target ---the SAN MIGUEL ---sorry can't talk too much on this one

please note---if you look at your history correctly--- their were 2 ships often referred to as San Miguel that sailed under Echeverz----one SAN MIGUEL was also called "Senora de la Popa"--it was a smallish dutch vessel--(a galera class vessel) or galley only about 18 men crew & it was "privately owned by Echeverz"-the other was properly called "EL SENOR SAN MIGUEL"---it was a nao--- but it is often just called SAN MIGUEL which leads to them being "mixed up" with one another by some folks-- the nao class was was a much larger vessel than the galera class type----thus their is NO PROBLEM WITH TWO SAN MIGUELS one in each "spot"----Ivan

sorry can't say TOO MUCH more on the subject -other than they can both be "right" in that they are looking for a ship named "SAN MIGUEL"---- ;)
 

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