The mysterious death of Adolph Ruth

[cactusjumper]

deducer

I have given a better look to the leather map that you posted . Is another Perfil map , maybe the original one .
I would liked to see Brownie Holmes face when he saw for the first time the Perfil map with its " the rock that looks like a man over the point of a ridge " clue . I believe in that moment , this map just had validaded the route which had given Waltz to Brownie's father .
The question which arise is : Was Brownie Holmes aware about the Perfil map that Ruth possessed , before Ruth's death ( and maybe Brownie was in his shadow ) or after Ruth's death ?
And another question : Was aware Ruth of the directions that had given Waltz to Dick Holmes ?
And now maybe you are wondering if that " rock that looks like a man over a ridge " exist . Of course exist . Let's see if the author of the Perfil map made a good copy . In my picture the ridge is lower because a highest altitude view .

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I believe he was pretty good .

Marius,

Lots of formations in Mother Natures gallery:



Good luck,

Joe

 

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[azdave35]

Hi Marius,

As you know, perfil is Spanish for profile, so it is the same thing I referred to when I called it the profile map.

Be careful of trying to associate it with the Superstitions, there is no evidence that it refers to the Superstitions. It may well concern California, rather. Even Edwin Ruth, himself wasn't certain and may have made a mistake in that regard.

I believe that what Ruth was looking for wasn't necessarily the LDM, but one of the mines dug out by the Spanish, probably by the Peraltas. There were scores of them.

deducer:...i used to think the perfil map was not for the superstitions until a couple years ago ...me and a few friends were sitting around looking at a stack of pics that another dutch hunter had taken over the years ..we were about halfway through the stack when one of the pics caught my attention..i picked it up and all of us blurted out the same words at the same time.."the perfil map"...this pic was an exact match for the perfil map..and you didnt have to look at it a certain way or squint your eyes to tell.....at first glance you knew it was a pic of where the perfil map was drawn and it was taken in the superstitons

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Always found this interesting - from the printed map on the back inside cover of "Superstition Mountain - in the Footsteps of the Dutchman" by Kollenborn and Swanson.

There is rumored to be evidence possibly in the form of a letter or letters to prove Adolph Ruth had been in the Superstitions prior to his summer trip of 1931 when he died, however I have yet to see it's existence. Interesting location for a possible Ruth camp in 1928 though isn't it?


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Cubfan64,

On the map you posted, Adolph Ruth's camp (in approx 1928) would have been at the NE end of Trap Canyon along the Peters Trail. The best route to take to get to that camp would be starting out from the Tortilla Ranch.
Tortilla Ranch was the place Gene Reynolds identified as Ruth using in his trip(s) prior to his fatal trip in 1931.
I have been through that area on a couple occasions. There is not much water there but it is a nice area for a camp and you are at a crossroads where you can easily follow the trail northwest into the Peters Country.
Both Reynolds and Morse mention Ruth having been in the mountains before his ill fated trip in the summer of 1931. What he was doing there, where he wanted to go, and what progress he made is anyone's guess.
The fact he returned in 1931 (in my opinion) speaks volumes.

Matthew

 

[markmar]

Marius,

Lots of formations in Mother Natures gallery:



Good luck,

Joe

Who is that guy ? Fred Flintstone ?

Joe , is not only the "head " that make the map but all the landmarks which are surrounding it .
This is what make the difference .

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Who is that guy ? Fred Flintstone ?

markmar,

The issue of the rock that looks like a man, or looks like a man's head, (in my opinion) is a solid clue to the Lost Dutchman Mine which may also be a Peralta mine.
The Perfil Map, also known as the Ruth-Peralta map clearly shows (in my opinion) a mans head.

As you know there are numerous rocks in the Superstition Mountains that look like a mans head or can be construed to look like a mans head.
The photo above is of myself at just such a place. A significant thing was discovered inside the opening I am standing beside and the rock above the opening is a perfect depiction of a mans head, complete with eyes, nose, mouth, even hair.

Do I believe this is the Waltz rock that looks like a man or the Ruth-Peralta Perfil man's head ? No I don't. I think this is a natural coincidence and a landmark that someone used so they could find the location when they wanted to come back.
I've seen several rocks that look like a mans head in my travels throughout the Superstitions. Just because there are several, doesn't mean there isn't one out there that is the real McCoy. So if anyone discounts the head clue simply because they can find several heads, they are not thinking things through very well.

I know where the head is in the blurred photo you posted and have to say you very well may be on to something.

Matthew

 

[azdave35]

View attachment 1457400

markmar,

The issue of the rock that looks like a man, or looks like a man's head, (in my opinion) is a solid clue to the Lost Dutchman Mine which may also be a Peralta mine.
The Perfil Map, also known as the Ruth-Peralta map clearly shows (in my opinion) a mans head.

As you know there are numerous rocks in the Superstition Mountains that look like a mans head or can be construed to look like a mans head.
The photo above is of myself at just such a place. A significant thing was discovered inside the opening I am standing beside and the rock above the opening is a perfect depiction of a mans head, complete with eyes, nose, mouth, even hair.

Do I believe this is the Waltz rock that looks like a man or the Ruth-Peralta Perfil man's head ? No I don't. I think this is a natural coincidence and a landmark that someone used so they could find the location when they wanted to come back.
I've seen several rocks that look like a mans head in my travels throughout the Superstitions. Just because there are several, doesn't mean there isn't one out there that is the real McCoy. So if anyone discounts the head clue simply because they can find several heads, they are not thinking things through very well.

I know where the head is in the blurred photo you posted and have to say you very well may be on to something.

Matthew

my source says it was a rock shaped like a man standing...not just his head...brownie holmes seached for this standing man rock all his life..if he ever found that then he would be very close to the mine.....he feared that tex barkley had found the rock and destroyed it

 

[markmar]

Matthew

Is good for you to know where the real " man's head " rock is . I wish you good luck in your future researches . If you will find the LDM , you will just vindicate : me , Dick Holmes and Jacob Waltz for our statements and Peralta for his map .

Also about the differences between the various head rocks , i have edited my previous post to Joe .

 

[markmar]

my source says it was a rock shaped like a man standing...not just his head...brownie holmes seached for this standing man rock all his life..if he ever found that then he would be very close to the mine.....he feared that tex barkley had found the rock and destroyed it

Dave

The clue that had given Waltz to Holmes was : " you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man " .
A big difference between " a rock standing " and a " man standing " IMO .
The brush was not from below the head but from the ridge in front the head .

 

[azdave35]

Dave

The clue that had given Waltz to Holmes was : " you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man " .
A big difference between " a rock standing " and a " man standing " IMO .
The brush was not from below the head but from the ridge in front the head .

where did you get your info from?...mine came from herman petrash...and not quoted from a book...it was right out of his mouth.....

 

[somehiker]

I see all this as an example of how conflating two separate clues into one can only add to the confusion.
Dave is correct in that one clue has Waltz's mine a short distance from a rock that looks like a man standing in the brush, marking a point where Waltz would leave a certain trail in a southerly direction and proceed to his final destination.
The other clue, which speaks of the "head" as I recall, is that which mentions the " head of an Indian ", to which Waltz "added" a nose, and that looked across at the opening to his mine.

In both clues, I think we are looking for something less than "supersized" in dimensions, and likely not related to what is shown on the original "Perfil Map".

Regards:S.H.

PS.....insofar as "Indian" heads go, what can be seen on the left side of this recent shot, is as good as anything I've posted before IMO.

 

[deducer]

deducer:...i used to think the perfil map was not for the superstitions until a couple years ago ...me and a few friends were sitting around looking at a stack of pics that another dutch hunter had taken over the years ..we were about halfway through the stack when one of the pics caught my attention..i picked it up and all of us blurted out the same words at the same time.."the perfil map"...this pic was an exact match for the perfil map..and you didnt have to look at it a certain way or squint your eyes to tell.....at first glance you knew it was a pic of where the perfil map was drawn and it was taken in the superstitons

That's very interesting. If that's what you saw, then I stand corrected.

where did you get your info from?...mine came from herman petrash...and not quoted from a book...it was right out of his mouth.....

Wow, that's pretty close to the source. Pretty hard to get any closer than that!

 

[cactusjumper]

Dave - it isn't an actual separate fold out map - it's just part of the printing on the back inside cover of the book. I believe Helen Corbin's first book also has the topo map inscribed on the inside covers, but I don't have it in front of me right now to check.

It was always my understanding that the map I posted was a portion of Tom Kollenborn's "master map" that he's added to over time.

Paul,

You are correct on all points in the above post. The other half of the map is on the inside of the front cover. The "information Chart", bottom left, gives the date and the map makers name.

Hope all is well,

Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

where did you get your info from?...mine came from herman petrash...and not quoted from a book...it was right out of his mouth.....

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall reading anywhere that Jacob Waltz ever gave clues to Herman Petrash.

 

[deducer]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall reading anywhere that Jacob Waltz ever gave clues to Herman Petrash.

Waltz ---> Julia Thomas/Rhinehart Petrasch ---> Hermann Petrasch (brother).

Both brothers began their search in the summer of 1892. You could say they were the very first Dutch Hunters.

 

[azdave35]

That's very interesting. If that's what you saw, then I stand corrected.



Wow, that's pretty close to the source. Pretty hard to get any closer than that!

deducer....ive seen alot of pics that kinda or sorta matched a map but there was no mistaking this one..it wasn't just close it was exact...and as far as herman goes i would say he was very close to the source...any info he got came from julia or his brother rhiney....and as long as waltz told them the truth herman had the correct clues

 

[deducer]

deducer....ive seen alot of pics that kinda or sorta matched a map but there was no mistaking this one..it wasn't just close it was exact...and as far as herman goes i would say he was very close to the source...any info he got came from julia or his brother rhiney....and as long as waltz told them the truth herman had the correct clues

Clay Worst used to say he believed that the early searchers came within 1/4 of a mile of the LDM, itself.

Hermann Petrasch was of course, a member of this "1/4 mile" club, and possibly Clay Worst himself was, as well, as his cave was just down the canyon from Hermann's cave. Also in this club is Jim Hatt, who, in my opinion, came very very close, in the summer of '91.

I am assuming that the pic you saw is north of of this general area, facing somewhat south, to the entrance of the canyon.

 

[cactusjumper]

deducer....ive seen alot of pics that kinda or sorta matched a map but there was no mistaking this one..it wasn't just close it was exact...and as far as herman goes i would say he was very close to the source...any info he got came from julia or his brother rhiney....and as long as waltz told them the truth herman had the correct clues

Dave,

Not saying you didn't get the truth from Herman, but I have met many Dutch Hunters who made up their facts to suit their story. A number of those folks are dead now, so I won't mention them by name. On the other hand, some are still alive and making up more "facts".

Take care,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Herman Petrasch did indeed get his clues from Julia Thomas and his brother Rhinehart. Julia and Rhiney tried to remember everything Waltz had told them concerning his mine.
That doesn't mean Julia and Rhiney got everything exactly as Waltz said it. On the other hand, it doesn't mean they didn't get it right either.

Brownie got his clues from his father Dick Holmes who talked directly to Waltz. Again, this is not a guarantee he got everything 100% correct, and not 100% that he didn't.

"A rock that looks like a man standing in the brush." "A rock looking like a man's head, so I said, I will make you a man, and I used my pick to make a face that looked like a man."

I have talked with Clay Worst about this point over a campfire back in the mountains and he has never been completely certain if Waltz meant a full sized man or just the head and upper body of a man.

We both decided it was best to look for both rather than argue over the correctness or outguess which was right and which was wrong. Clay and I have found some examples of both over the years.

One thing Brownie learned early on with Tex Barkley was to not divulge things he found back in the mountains. He soon realized as soon as he would tell Tex about where something was located, the next time Brownie was there, Tex had come along and destroyed it. The reason the monument some called the German soldier cannot be found any longer is because Tex learned of it and then it was no more.

Matthew

 

[azdave35]

Clay Worst used to say he believed that the early searchers came within 1/4 of a mile of the LDM, itself.

Hermann Petrasch was of course, a member of this "1/4 mile" club, and possibly Clay Worst himself was, as well, as his cave was just down the canyon from Hermann's cave. Also in this club is Jim Hatt, who, in my opinion, came very very close, in the summer of '91.

I am assuming that the pic you saw is north of of this general area, facing somewhat south, to the entrance of the canyon.

deducer...when we were shown the pic i hinted as to the location of where the pic was taken and he didnt take the hint...lol...next time i see him i'll hint again and see if he is more talkative....it has been a few years since i saw the pic but i think it was the entrance to a canyon

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

Not saying you didn't get the truth from Herman, but I have met many Dutch Hunters who made up their facts to suit their story. A number of those folks are dead now, so I won't mention them by name. On the other hand, some are still alive and making up more "facts".

Take care,

Joe

joe...i didnt get this straight from herman but a friend of mine did...he is an old timer but still sharp as a tack...and he has always been straight with me..he is probably over 80 years old but still goes in the mountains