The lost cave of Pachamama

[lilorphanannie]

the amount of gold collected by pizarro and his soldiers is well documented as every grain of gold and silver was assayed and weighed . it was then reparted among 480 people there ,each soldier recieved according to his rank. pizarro himself recieved 83 kilos of gold at .625 fine. the final weight of the gold that was melted down was @ 5690 pounds and there was @ 80000 pounds of silver. the kings 5th was set apart and the rest divided among the troops. there were several figures that were not melted down 11 statues of women ,average weight 29 kilos each and 4 statues of llamas ,average weight 26 kilos each. the most extraordinary piece was a solid gold slab , chronicaled by loredo, who said there was nothing available with which to weigh it . it was presumed to have been the moon and removed from el templo del sol. this was what was recovered by the spanish and is known as el botin de cusco. garsilaso wrote that the amount of gold that the spanish took was equivalent to taking one drop of water from a full pitcher . the "botin at cajamarca was roughly of equal value.from that moment on there was a massive movement to hide gold at secret places throughout the inca empire. some of the expeditions to transport the gold report 3000 animals de carga.

 

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[Mackaydon]

Somewhere in my garage I have a copy of Marie Robinson Wright's "Bolivia: The central highway of SA; a land of rich resources and varied interests" It was written over a 100 years ago by this author who traveled over 1000 throughout Bolivia on a donkey-noting what he saw. Part of the book involved the mines, including the 'chuquiaguillo' area. This thread has given me the incentive to find and reread it.
Don.....

 

[lilorphanannie]

there's a couple of remarkable things about the la paz river placer (chuquiaguillo) ,that are unique. one ,is that it was mined continually from 1545 to 1887,over 300 years and every year was mined at a profit. the second thing (for nugget hunters ) is the incredible occurence of large gold that was found there. and lastly, up stream from the old workings is a natural trap ,which many in the beginning believed to contain an immense amount of gold and has yet never been dug out. early records report 1000 ounce days with only manual labor .

 

[lilorphanannie]

theres quite a few accounts and descriptions ,several for each century really. a book voyage dans le nord de la bolivie by h a weddell .paris 1853, probably gives the most indepth description of the chuquiaguillo placers.but it's in french, i don't know of an english translation. then there's the library at the bolivian ministry of mines in la paz. you could probably make email contact and they will forward you some reports. the main drawback is there is now housing settlements all along the place ,its just on the edge of town. a lot of activity. but very interesting for nugget hunting.

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Hello all

UK: Interesting post do you recall the name of the book? One thing to realize there are hundreds of sites dedicated to Pachamama. Here is a picture of one walled enclosure on an island of lake Titicaca. It is facing two mountain peaks. The snow capped mountain on the left is dedicated to Pachamama and the other mountain is for Pacha Kamaq. The mind boggles what treasure was in this sacred enclosure many centuries ago.The koricancha in Cuzco however was the greatest temple of them all.

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lilorphanannie: Yes I can confirm with utmost confidence of your statement about La Paz being orginally a placer deposit. I have a 1851 newspaper story somewhere telling about finding big gold nuggets in La Paz.

Crow

Hi Crow

Can't remember if it was definitely this book, but give it a try anyway;

Incidents of Travel & Exploration in the Land of the Incas - G E Squier - 1877

The book itself was/is about 600-700 pages long and I remembered the story after you posted the one about the site in Bolivia. Have rectified the error of not making notes about particular stories, dates, people in order to make research easier. Will do so from now on which will make referencing and cross-checking less guesswork and more definitive.

Another reoccuring theme I recall from many of the books I've read/am reading, there were many national and local shrines dedicated to the Sun, and to a lesser extent, the moon. The Incas worshipped the Sun as a life-giver, yet the Chimus hated the sun due to their location on the desert coast, and instead had the moon as their main focus.

The Koricancha was the "Special One" as far as the Inca were concerned but the Spanish made a big error; whilst holding the Inca Atahualpha hostage, a delegation were sent to strip the temple of its wealth and there was an 'outsiders' garrison stationed in Cuzco awaiting Inca Atahualpa and his entourage for his official coronation. The troops stationed there, were in the main, from the north and not "proper" Incas. They were commanded by a great Inca general by the splendid name of QuizQuiz. He knew the score with the Spanish and had to standby while the lowest rung on Spanish society stripped the capital and the temple of its wealth. One can only recoil at the level of indignation.

Anyway, they stripped and pillaged to their hearts content, and then headed back to Cajamarca with the caravan of spoils. During the journey, they said that they could not believe what they had espied with their own eyes; the level of wealth and how it was not valued in the same way as the Spanish (up until that time) by the natives, was a sight to behold. That is why when they went back and reported this to Pizarro, they were all for murdering the Inca and making ready to sack Cuzco proper. When they did eventually return some months later, the vast majority had suddenly disappeared.

Again, another story pops into mind based at the time of Peruvian independence. A native leader who rose-up against the authorities at the time, needed funds to purchase arms and provisions for his men. An elder in the community said that he would get him what he needed - funds. The leader was blind-folded and taken by escort out of Cuzco along the river Huatanay (I think), and was taken to a secret location within a cave system, where when he was allowed to remove the blind-fold, saw a veritable treasure-trove of life sized golden objects and all manner of items. He was only allowed to remove what he could carry and needed for his followers. He was then blind-folded and taken back to Cuzco. The book I read was again by a traveller ( I am really sorry that I cannot give you precise details due to not noting it at the time), but the travelling author met the widow of the native leader and she confirmed the details and I believe presented some sort of evidence for him to view.

Truly amazing place Peru, and indeed much of South and Central America for that matter.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

May I inject a bit of off topic data. Lil Orphan Annie is 'also' prob no.1 on data from Sinaloa, Chihuahua, and Durango, including the area where that placer that I mentioned, and Naranjal are supposedly located.

Soo get to work on him ! And of course, it goes without saying, Crow, and now IPiUK You gentlemen have me fascinated.

Don JOse de La Mancha

 

[Crow]

Hello Again

For those who do not know what the temple looked like? Here is a plan illustration of the Koricancha



It was inside the walls of this enclosure illustrated was coated in sheets of gold and yard full of golden stalks of corn and plans with large statues and the semi circular sun disk as this was the sacred temple of the sun. To some of the remains of fine Inca walls can be seen inside the Dominican Church that is built over the Inca Sun temple.

Here is a computer reconstruction of what the temple would of looked like from the outside.



Here is a picture of it Today.



Crow

 

[Crow]

Hello again

just continuing the tour.... Inside the remaining remains inside the church.











I still in all these years since I last saw it quite a few years ago still amazed a quality of the stonework built by the Incas.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Hello Again

And here is what the sheets of gold that hung off the inner walls of the Sun Temple may have looked like. I cannot imagine the site that the conquistadors must of seen when they entered the temple. The gold in the temple would of reflected light from the sun all around giving the temple magical mystical aura.



Crow

 

[Crow]

Hello All

Some people have alleged this gold sheet is a treasure map?

This of course remains to be seen. Being an old "southie" IE living in the Southern Hemisphere I can see a similar relationship with the Southern Cross which is very predominant in southern Hemisphere night sky's.

In the Southern Hemisphere we are fortunate in being able to enjoy a view of the bright stars that form the Southern Cross. They are also useful for they can provide a calendar, a clock as well as indicators for finding south.

The first step is to identify the Southern Cross – it is a compact group of bright stars close together in the sky with the two pointer stars always pointing to them from nearby. Note that the Cross, known to astronomers by its Latin name of Crux, rotates in the sky during a night so that it can be found at different seasons and at different times low in the south, in the south-east, high in the south or in the south-west. There are two methods.


Extend the main axis of the Cross from and in the direction of its brightest star by four and a half times its length (the span of the main axis of the Cross is approximately 6° while the distance from its brightest star to the South Celestial Pole is approximately 27°). You have now reached the South Celestial Pole – the point about which the Cross and all stars turn in the sky. From the Pole drop a line straight down to the horizon – that is south. or method two draw a line perpendicular to the line joining the two stars of the pointers and about halfway between them. Where that line meets the line formed by the two most widely separated stars in the Southern Cross is the south point in the sky (the South Celestial Pole). From the Pole drop a line straight down to the horizon – that is south.



knowing a fair bit about the Inca empire how they had a deep understanding of 3 levels of existance. The underworld the surface and the heavens. The Sheet I believe was part of a large celestial map inreflection to the surface of the Inca empire below. The Symbol of the left has been seen at many Pachamama sites it is the symbol of fertility and the earth mother. Sadly the greed of the spanish left us with an eternal mystery of what the whole walls of sheeted gold in the sun temple would of looked like and to what context this remaining sheet had?

Crow

 

[gflores71]

Try this link, hope it works.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=wlD6pU90IacC&rdid=book-wlD6pU90IacC&rdot=1

G

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bien Venidos Dr Flores ,mi amigo. Hace demasiado Tiempo. welcome Dr Florwes, it has been too long,

Don Jose de La one eyed Jack de la Mancha

 

[gflores71]

Hello Joseph, glad to see you here as well. Here in Calif. for a couple of weeks then back down south.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Buesas dias Dr Flores: La verdad, how many have you found since we last talked?? Ya leave any rainbow
bass for me ? And most important,is that Pretty Cessna in one piece?


Don Jose the one eyed Jack de la Mancha

 

[Corporate Investigations]

gflores71

Thanks for the book reference. I will look that one up.

Don my one eye pirate from the stories I have heard about your ability to park aircraft in upside down fashion, leave poor gflores71 Cessna alone!

Amy

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Amy luv, twern't my fault, it was Canadas's by placing that tel pole cable across the roed --- even doc flores woulda made a boo bo o

Don Jose

 

[gflores71]

No rainbows or treasures lately. Have been tied up with a new baby girl. Have a trip coming up June 7th so its time to dust off the toys and try out a new 25" mono loop on a PI unit. Will let you know how the trip goes.
Jessie my trustworthy 172XP is doing just fine, taking down the overhauled governor with me for installation.

 

[Culinary Caveman]

Well thanks a lot. I won't single Crow out on this one as all of you have piqued my interest in SA and the Incan empire to the point where I am now dead set on learning Spanish while saving up enough money for a prolonged trip south.

 

[Crow]

Hello CC

Great Journeys and adventures have been inspired by small things. The course of Peoples lives can change from the yarn or story that inspires them. Some times it can be for the worse and other times it is for the better?

Ya know the unholy trio some times bring people along on adventure people who never had much experience in this sort of life.. We had a fella in early 30's never hardly been to isolated parts of world, Pushed him to limits beyond his imagination away from his much appreciated home comforts. He survived his adventure a little bit taller in his self esteem my friend and a little less angry at the world.

Ya know if more people from all races and cultures traveled outside thier comfort zones out into the world. They will see with different eyes on thier return a little less bigoted and little more tolerant once experiencing the shoe on the other foot. All races have their good and bad people. Our life's lesson is not to tar everyone with the same brush.

So ya see some times it the journey that matters and not the destination.

Crow

 

[Culinary Caveman]

Well said Crow. In '05 I spent 3 months poking around in the Kodiak archipelago of Alaska by myself. I didn't find anything of any real historical or monetary value but I found out a lot about myself which as it turned out was really what I needed.
The yarns I've read over the past several days have reawakened my explorers spirit and I thank all of you for that. I remember the cold, the hunger and the fatigue of my last trip quite well but oh how I now long for another adventure. So I will start to save up a grub stake and hopefully by this time next year I'll be discovering even more about myself.
I look forward to more of your tales and would be honored to learn anything the trio would be willing to teach me. Now back to my coffee.