The Lost Adams Diggings

[alaskabill]

This picture looks very much like a dirt dam constructed by a rancher in a natural drainage to capture water for cattle.

Hi Stude,

At first I thought it might be some sort of drainage control, but I found this image posted below that is obviously a dike of some sort to either retain silt or otherwise control runoff. These structures are significantly different from the smaller parallel structures shown above.

I apologize for being somewhat off the thread topic, but I found these features while looking around NM motivated by the Adams Diggings story and was considering that the feature above might be some sort of a construction to hide or protect something of value. Here I am suggesting that the Adams Diggings Legend might be a cover story for some other more clandestine activity.

The image below is interesting in its own right. Considering the deep definition of the resulting drainages, I wonder if these diversion dams were modern or ancient construction?

Bill

 

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[alaskabill]

Here is a larger view of the area around the feature in Topic #15 above. There appears to be remnants of old trails in the area, but no recent activity appears to have taken place near this feature.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning Pete: You are correct of course, however I wish to point out from personal experience, just how easy it is to become lost or semi lost when traveling in unknown country.

Remember, that despite popular opinion, most of the old western gentlemen were NOT good frontiersmen. Just as the average person incorrectly considers cowboys of that period to all be quick draw, deadly shot experts.

When you are on a horse, or a mule, riding for days, it is very easy to get bored or complacent if another is the guide. One tends to just ride and hope that you will get to where your guide is taking you. You don't really study where you are, or going.

If something happens and you have to return another way, while, say a bunch of unhappy ones are chasing you with bad intentions, everything become confused, and later you have an extremely difficult time putting everything into it's proper place. When we are speaking of days and weeks of such travel -----

I found the collapsed portal of the lost Mine 'Las Pimas'. It was in an outcropping in plain sight on top of the northern rim of a small barranca. Simple to return to, no? Yet it took two trips to find it again when I wanted more data.

Today, I have the benefit of modern maps, aerial photographs, even satellite data. Many times I know far more about an isolated area than the locals that have lived there all of their lives. I have the luxury of being able to go from point to point where the terrain permits.

Their navigation consists of "go up this arroyo until you see that rock (tree) turn to the setting Sun and continue until you see another arroyo that flows to your right. Continue up this arroyo for 2 days, crossing a small range of hills until you see a small mesa that is cut in half.

Climb to the left side of this mesa, passing the arroyo. Continue to the left of the setting sun until you come to a small hill. Pass the hill until you see another small hill. Keep going straight until you finally come the third hill.

Stop, do not go any further. Face the setting Sun and you will see the dump of the mine "La Tarasca" below a crest (ridge).

These are the actual instructions that I used to find it.

No, it is quite easy for any of the LAD group to become disorganized, as Adams was.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Springfield]

I find all of the stories and "clues" that people come up with on the LAD to be enjoyable reading, but wonder where this information comes from since none of the survivors of the massacre ever mention those stories or clues. I would think, and maybe I'm wrong, that the people involved in the expedition and survived would know more about what happened than anyone else. Or, perhaps, were there many more members of the expedition who survived the massacre and their stories only surfaced many decades later Then again, perhaps it's just "poetic license!" ....

Adams himself, indirectly through interviews with many others, is the primary source, and you know what happens to the details of a story as they pass farther away from their place of origin. They get corrupted, either intentionally or unintentionally. Not to mention the confusion of the originator - Adams himself. Often described as an idiot, Adams seemed to tell a different story to whoever would buy him lunch.

There is also plenty of uncertainty about the alleged other 'survivors'. We don't know a lot about Davidson's later exploits, but Brewer's version is the source of the El Paso Herald's published story of the LAD in the 1920's. Brewer later turned up as a well-heeled rancher in Mexico. If you believe Nino Cochise, that is. Maybe he quietly relocated the diggings and moved on. If so, the story he shared about the diggings and his escape may contain a good deal of disinformation. His version placed the diggings several days walk west of the Rio Grande.

The most intriguing of the alleged survivors is the so-called Dutchman who left the mining party before the Indian trouble loaded with his share of the gold. Interestingly, Jacob Snively, a German of remarkable accomplishments before and after the LAD event, arrived in Pinos Altos with 70 pounds of placer gold following an escape from Indians. He claimed his gold source (later called the Snively Diggings) was located 125 miles north of Pinos Altos. Again, was this information accuate or subject to 'twisting' to protect the gold's true location? In any case, Snively was a man to be reckoned with.

Jack Purcell has presented evidence that all the LAD players were Confederate soldiers serving in the NM/AZ territories during the LAD timeframe. The KGC camp offers the theory that the LAD event was merely a cover story to draw attention away from a secret Confederate mission having something to do with caching gold bullion in the territory. If this story is true, then the intended confusion certainly worked well - they would all be liars.

 

[lastleg]

Pete, you're right. Public safety is more important. Besides a gold rush might
interrupt the Immigrant Highway.

 

[Springfield]

I have been doing research and field work for twenty years in search of the LAD canyon.
It took me that long to discover the way to figure out how to put the Adams manuscript
and the Brewer manuscript in their proper relationship to the LAD. Once I did this, it
was easy to locate the canyon and all of the landmarks mentioned in both manuscripts.

Now, I won't say that I found the canyon because everyone will want me to prove it, and
I am not ready to do so. Why? If the location is known, it could start a modern-day
gold rush where people may be injured or killed and, it would ruin the beauty and
serenity of the canyon....

Interesting rationalization for locating a site that matches your favorite clues, and unfortunately has no gold. Jason Baxter's rationalization for solving the Brewer account was that an earthquake must have covered the diggings (Black Range Tales). You may be correct with your conclusions, but you are not presenting much of an argument for it.

I had a friend once who knew where there was a big jar of gold coins buried, but he hadn't gotten around to digging it up yet because it was too far to drive to and he didn't have the time (he was unemployed). It's always something. You can't put ten pounds of potatos in a five pound bag unless there's a hole in it.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Springfield my buddy : You posted -->
You can't put ten pounds of potatos in a five pound bag unless there's a hole in it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wrong my friend, just grind them up first, or use much smaller potatoes. ! snicker

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

PeterM - if you have found the Lost Adams, why not at least dig up the coffeepot full of gold? Heck you could say you are removing litter, as the metal coffeepot is man-made garbage that is slowly rusting into the environment, and that gold could be seen as a contaminant. By removing it you would also be removing the threat of the "gold rush" you mentioned, since any treasure hunter who went there and found no coffeepot would likely assume it is NOT the Lost Adams.

I respectfully disagree with your rationalization for not bringing out the gold. Beautiful canyons are beautiful, and it would still be beautiful if you removed the gold. Not suggesting someone go in an strip-mine it, but even if they did, today there are regulations and bonds to restore the lands to beautiful condition. There is a canyon here in the Black Hills, which Homestake Mining corp won awards for their restoration - if you were to take a hike through it, I doubt you could even tell it had been mined.

This anti-mining "bent" which seems a common idea is based on misinformation on the current state of the art. Besides, if it is the Lost Adams, you could mine it small-scale and set yourself up financially for life without ruining the whole environment of the canyon. In the "old days" the mining companies were some of the worst for damaging the lands and waters, but that is not the case today.

Wishing you all a very Happy New Year,
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

You seem smug about your conclusions but not willing to discuss them directly - thus all the innuendos and veiled comments. The message that I for one am hearing from you is that you want the world to think you have found the LAD gold but want to keep its location a secret. That's fine - I hope you have, but you also say you welcome an active discussion. Well ... your turn. Where do you think the LAD is, why do you think your landmarks are the correct ones, and what published source do you rely on as the correct one (and why)?

 

[Oroblanco]

Ditto to the words of our amigo Springfield, and I will add this - PeterM, read your own posts, what conclusions do you get from them? You did not state that you were in the canyon, nor that you found any gold. If you had found gold, there is no law against posting photos of it, and placer mining for gold is perfectly legal. As for the coffeepot, it is a crucial "clue" for positive identification of the true Lost Adams, it may have been a clay jar or a tin pot but this detail of what the container was is not important, the miners were pooling the gold produced and storing it - finding it goes a very long way to proving you found the Lost Adams. Without it, you may well have simply found another of the many beautiful canyons of the area, and there are a number of places which will "fit" the various clues - unfortunately most, if not all, have virtually no gold.

You are welcome to claim that you found the Lost Adams, but you must realize that without any gold to show to back such a claim, it has as much credence as my saying that I found it. I have found a little canyon too that "fit" the clues, even a couple of prospect pits where someone had dug many years before, but had not a speck of gold anywhere - so it cannot be the Lost Adams.

Wishing you all a very happy new year, and looking forward to your reply with some photos of that gold,
Oroblanco

 

[alaskabill]

Peter,

I think my post got lost in the "upper ether" so I'll try again.

Here is my suggestion. Would you post a pix of your zig - zag canyon from a GoggleEarth view and I will post mine. If you have located a zig - zag canyon, I would like to see how close it matches my discovery and my "minds eye" understanding of the published clue we all have read about in all those publications.

What say you, Peter?

Bill

 

[lastleg]

peterm:

Please get down to it, we aren't getting any younger ya know. Show your
cards or fold.

 

[Springfield]

... Next, my sources of information are the Adams manuscript and the Brewer manuscript. Both written by survivors of the expeditions as well as maps of the 1860's.

Next, there are three recorded expeditions to the canyon. Each one starts from a different location and go in a slightly different direction but meet at the same canyon. Coincidence? Probably because each expedition had the same guide.

All the information I use comes from nothing older than the 1860's. ...

Thanks for this interesting angle on things. I have a question or two concerning your statement that none of your information is older than the 1860's. I'm not aware of an 'Adams manuscript' from this time period - can you provide additional information about it? As I recall, we don't have Adams telling his story for the first time until the mid-1870's to RC Patterson. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the 'Brewer manuscript' is the 1928 El Paso Herald article written by Ammon Tenney about the LAD based on his experiences with John Brewer, whom he met for the first time in the late 1880's, or so he claims. A third question: which 'three expeditions with the same guide' are you referring to? If we all have an understanding of how you put together your theory, we could discuss it.

For years I also deduced that the LAD had to be located somewhere westerly from Magdelena, NM. If this is a rich placer deposit, then I currently would place its location further south and west as I've mentioned elsewhere.

On the other hand, I feel there are very good odds that the 'Adams incident' is something other than a lost placer deposit, and if so, could very well have occurred somewhere along the old road from California to the Rio Grande that followed the Williams Fork to the Little Colorado to Zuni and on to the Rio Grande - in the area that you are partial to. The E.V. Batchler account from 1938 directly accuses Adams and others of the murder and theft of a couple hundred pounds of placer gold from a party returning east on that same road from the California gold fields. Whether or not we can believe this account any more than the various LAD accounts is questionable of course, but it offers a plausible explanation as to why the diggings have never been located and where the gold came from in the first place. Notwithstanding Brewer's involvement, to me Jacob Snively is the dark presence that puts this scenario in the 'possible' catagory. If not an ambush of prospectors, it might have been something else (ala Bob Brewer's LAD allegations [another Brewer ... hmmm]), but IMO, the LAD may be a red herring cover story for something else that needed to be hushed up.

Of course, Peter, you may have the answer to all this in your pocket. I'd like to hear more specifics.

 

[alaskabill]

Springfield,

That was an excellent post in response to peterm's elaboration. I have a couple of questions for peterm as well, but I think I'll wait to read his follow-on comments first.

Bill

 

[Springfield]

I expect that the hardest information for anyone searching for the canyon to accept is that there were two men named Adams on two different expeditions, one in 1862 and one in 1864. And that Brewer was part of the 1862 expedition not the 1864. The 1862 expedition entered the canyon on the southeast corner. The 1864 expedition entered the canyon on the northeast corner.

My process is to start from where the expedition started and go in the direction they went looking for the landmarks mentioned and see where it takes me. I do not look for a canyon that fits the clues first; that would be a waste of time and very poor research technique.

These two expeditions met at the same canyon. The third expedition report, I came across much later in my research and quite by accident. It wasn't very long, but gave a starting point and a direction and it too ended up at the same canyon. This expedition entered the canyon from the southeast. Too many coincidences to be ignored.

I have read just about anything that was ever written on the LAD. Many are very amusing. Some are probably true based on another Adams. I would expect that this surname is quiet popular.

I had to hunt really hard to find copies of the manuscripts and, of course, making copies of them was not permitted. Others may find them easier.

Of course, the best way to check out a story is to see if any of the information given is correct. If you can't prove it yourself, then don't use it.

Well, don't know if I answered your questions or just confused you.

Need to run along.

Pete

Seems like you are as confused as the rest of the LAD searchers have been the past 150 years with conflicting stories. That's certainly understandable.

It seems like you are unwilling to respond to the first paragraph from post #37 above. Sorry, it's hard to swallow the 'dog ate my homework' excuse for the absence of your source material. Couldn't make copies, eh? OK, then where are these documents located? Maybe other interested parties might like to track them down.

 

[lastleg]

Springfield:

Do you have a link to the Batchler account handy?

 

[Springfield]

Springfield:

Do you have a link to the Batchler account handy?

Here's one:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/wpa/18090108.html

 

[Springfield]

Not confused. I have everything where it belongs. I have a very extensive library. Each and every article has been thoroughly researched.

Let's look at another aspect.

When Adams went to relocate the canyon, he searched a certain area. When Brewer went to relocate the canyon, he searched a certain area. Interestingly, they were the same areas! Coincidence? Hmmm.

I think I would be doing other researchers a disservice by telling them where to fine the documents. After all, the best thing about looking for lost treasure is the research.

If you think that I am wrong, then talk about the information you use, how you verified it and proved it to be connected to the canyon. But only if you feel comfortable doing so.

Pete

Like others, I assume, I figured you might have some interesting things to say about the LAD Pete, but you've been continuously evading the discussion since you weighed in. This indicates to me that maybe you don't really have anything of value to say. The 'I've Got A Secret' stance may help bolster your ego, but it doesn't seem to be gaining much traction on the forum. In case you need reminding - nobody here is claiming to know where the diggings, if they exist, are located, except you. The ball's in your court.

 

[lastleg]

Springfield:

Just wanted to say thanks for that link. Very thought provoking and it
has a ring of truth.

 

[Springfield]

Here's what we know so far:
a) Pete is using the same resources available to all LAD researchers
b) Pete has a theory as to the location of the LAD
c) Pete wants people to think he's found the LAD gold
d) Pete appears to be seeking a folllowing