The Indian Way Bill

[Curtis]

I have enquired about starting a new topic under legends as we have been conversing about the Indian Way Bill under the Jonathan Swift threads. If there is enough interest they will start a new subject. So if interested in the Indian Way Bill Lets talk.

I first heard of it form Michael Paul Henson several years before he passed. He had written an article about it in a treasure magazine and sent me a copy of it after I enquired about signs of Swift around the junction of the Little Sandy and Caney creek. Then a few years latter Boomer posted a version that may have been directly copied form the original.

One aspect of it that I am trying to decipher is if Chief Joseph Brandt was the actual Indian who wrote it and if it was actually in the Sellers possession. I have talked to two of his direct descendants who do not have knowledge of it being in the family. I had gained that info from a Roots web lead. If I remember right Boomer got his copy form a lady from Florida.

I met a fellow treasure hunter at Caney Boat landing last weekend and had a good conversation and did some walking while talking and exploring. He had found some silver in the area and was interested in where it may have came from. I saw the silver and its for real. We may send a piece to a University for testing.

 

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[Brushy Bandit]

From the research I've done on Joseph Brandt, he was highly educated, up to a college level. The obvious impression of the Waybill is that it's written by someone who is poorly educated.
He is a well known native american, I'm thinking that history has plugged him into the holes that were in the Waybill legend. The Waybill is without a doubt written by someone that has real knowledge of the area, as it matches pace for pace. I think there is a large part of the story that we don't know either by design or having been lost or confused over time.

 

[KY Hiker]

Since I am not well versed on the Indian waybill and the story around it I ask these questions. What are the differences between this story and mines and the Swift mines? Might they be one in the same Silver mines? Sure Swift is a white man's legend, the lore is 250 years in the making. Could it be that the Swift legend has been embellished multiple times with landmarks of those who live near those landmarks? I find it remarkable that there would be Indian silver mines and that they are isolated from the Swift mines. Some of the Swift legends mention Mundy being familiar with the Indian mines. This leads me to believe they are one and the same, or this is where the white man legend takes off from the waybill mines to make them their own? ... any knowledge of the waybill other than what was posted here would be helpful. Any comments?

 

[Brushy Bandit]

I have alot of the same questions, Hiker. I have found smelted silver in the area very close to a mine, but no vein yet. Certainly there are mines, one that you can go down into 20' or so with timbers inside, past this it has fallen in. There is a steady breeze of cool air inside, which to me suggests it goes farther and most likely has another opening.
Hopefully with more time, I can answer our questions and tie these pieces to Indians, French, Spanish or Swift, or all of the above.

 

[franklin]

Sure up the timbers and go to looking. Be careful.

 

[Curtis]

When I first found one of the mines it was while looking for Swifts mines...then I got a copy of the Indian Way Bill from Henson, and for a long time was convinced it was the same mines....There are some similarities, but when you follow Swifts directions they don't work out.

There were some guys there that said the Gap with a Lid on it was the Lighthouse Swift talked about...they also said they found a lot of other things that let them know it was the Shift mines area....they were from Jellico and I think they have passed.. The second copy of the waybill I got (worse writing)was from a local guy who said a lady from Florida gave it to him...and her family said it was Brandt that gave it to them....There may have been more than one Brandt..I could not find any references to him and the Waybill anywhere.

 

[KY Hiker]

When I first found one of the mines it was while looking for Swifts mines...then I got a copy of the Indian Way Bill from Henson, and for a long time was convinced it was the same mines....There are some similarities, but when you follow Swifts directions they don't work out.

There were some guys there that said the Gap with a Lid on it was the Lighthouse Swift talked about...they also said they found a lot of other things that let them know it was the Shift mines area....they were from Jellico and I think they have passed.. The second copy of the waybill I got (worse writing)was from a local guy who said a lady from Florida gave it to him...and her family said it was Brandt that gave it to them....There may have been more than one Brandt..I could not find any references to him and the Waybill anywhere.

You say the directions Swift gave don't work for this area but, have any of the Swift Journals lead to any mine openings? I just find it hard to believe there would be two different sets of silver mines in KY, with two different sets of legends and they are not related to one another. I am leaning toward the Caney signs and Indian mine openings being the same workings of Swift legend. And the Journals being a creation to lead folks astray.

 

[Curtis]

Hi KY hiker

Working it from that angle you could be onto something. Its even coincidental that the Indian mentions some kegs of coins? The upper Indian mines are a lot better than the lower ones according to what the Indian has written which coincide with Swifts story. There is an ancient Indian village near the boat ramp on Caney = that could also be the one Swift called the "meccas"! There might be something to this,-back to the beginning again!I still need to get back there for some more filming for my project.

 

[KY Hiker]

Curtis, I don't mean to make you start over from the beginning! I just have a gut feeling that they are related if not the same mines.
Does Caney creek run on a Northern course? Are there any other similarities to the Swift descriptions?
I am beginning to think that much of the Swift legend came about as he traveled (while blind) looking to re-find the mines again. I would bet that Swift and his party made camp near present day Campton, KY while trying to re-find the mines. This makes sense to me, in that, his descriptions are so vague yet precise. It would also make sense that many of the landmarks would be named after his descriptions as he traveled through an area. Examples being; Half moon Rock, Indian Stairway and even Swift Camp Creek. There are two different Silvermine branches within the gorge area. Could they be named that because of Swift searching the area in the 1790s?
I'm just trying to piece this together in some logical form while looking at facts such as the land title 'some 60-70 miles NE of Martin's cabin' (Martin's station). Does the Caney location fall in that range of distance? What about the land title research done by Prather for his book?
Could the mines actually have been along Caney Creek all this time while literally hundreds of people have searched the East KY Mts for the last 250 years? If the mines were collapsed or walled in or of such low mineral content that they were overlooked or just mined out?
Granted, I have limited resources and exposure to the vast number of versions of his 'Journals' and 'maps', but of those maps I have seen there is no scale or direction given. Just topography and landmarks with no North marked. Some descriptions I have read mention numbers of poles from furnace to mine ect. but that is about it for scale. Its almost as if he (Swift) was describing the area and someone else was drawing a map as he described and not him drawing it.
Just my opinion thus far on this.

 

[jim bridger]

Let's look at this in terms of the 1780s, not the 21st century. When the distance north of Martin's Cabbins was given, how was that distance judged? I'm sure nobody during that time had traveled it in a straight line or dragged a surveyor's chain to get the figures. Look at it on a map from the mid 1780s that showed eastern Ky/southwest Va. There aren't that many. Then use that maps scale of distance to chart the mileage north of Martin's Cabbins and you'll get a different location entirely that what you'll get from a USGS topo or Google map. The only way to get that distance at that time was from a map! And it wasn't Filson's map because it didn't show diddly-squat about eastern Ky. As for Prather, the Swift he referenced had a title that was some 20 years or so after the entry Filson filed to claim Swift's mine. The Big Sandy land supposedly owned by Swift wasn't really his. The land in question had been claimed by Virginia land warrants long before Swift's name was on a deed. In the words of a gold miner, the Swift who claimed the Big Sandy property would have been nothing more than a claim jumper. You can take any sizable acreage from the so-called Swift claim on Big Sandy and work it back owner by owner until you get to the original patent or land warrant holder and Swift's name appears nowhere in that chain of title!

 

[KY Hiker]

Let's look at this in terms of the 1780s, not the 21st century. When the distance north of Martin's Cabbins was given, how was that distance judged? I'm sure nobody during that time had traveled it in a straight line or dragged a surveyor's chain to get the figures. Look at it on a map from the mid 1780s that showed eastern Ky/southwest Va. There aren't that many. Then use that maps scale of distance to chart the mileage north of Martin's Cabbins and you'll get a different location entirely that what you'll get from a USGS topo or Google map. The only way to get that distance at that time was from a map! And it wasn't Filson's map because it didn't show diddly-squat about eastern Ky. As for Prather, the Swift he referenced had a title that was some 20 years or so after the entry Filson filed to claim Swift's mine. The Big Sandy land supposedly owned by Swift wasn't really his. The land in question had been claimed by Virginia land warrants long before Swift's name was on a deed. In the words of a gold miner, the Swift who claimed the Big Sandy property would have been nothing more than a claim jumper. You can take any sizable acreage from the so-called Swift claim on Big Sandy and work it back owner by owner until you get to the original patent or land warrant holder and Swift's name appears nowhere in that chain of title!

Excellent points. But I believe the distance was more probably judged on the number of days ride on horseback or on foot than on any map at that time. It obviously was not 'as the crow flys' distance. Land claims and title disputes are more common than pennies in Kentucky history. My guess is the region/area where the mine was thought to be was general, and the Filson claim was for the land around it once it was found. Much of the Swift legend has contradiction but I do find Prather's research that he presented thorough. Filson obviously would not have placed the mine location on any map he publicly published if he knew of its actual location. But that land entry and its distance is all we have to go by as factual evidence of its possible location and its from a very early date to boot.

 

[jim bridger]

Be that as it may, go to the Library of Congress website and look at the Pownall-Evans map, locate Rose Hill, Va (Martin's Cabbins), the calculate the distance on that map. I doubt that anyone had actually ridden on horseback from Martin's Cabbins 60 to 70 miles northeast in one trip at that time. In the mid-1780s the Indians would have had their horses long before the rode that distance. Also look at the same map and check the Remarkable Rock just on the inside of Cumberland Gap. That Swift would have used the same description in his directions, i.e. "Remarkable Rocks" is quite remarkable. My point about Filson's map is that all his information about eastern Ky/southwest/Va was second or third-hand, or worse. He knew nothing about the area. He had Fowler's Lick (he spelled it Fawler's) about 10 miles up Sandy when it was actually more like 110 miles. My idea is that whoever wrote the journal was an educated person of the times who had access to the Pownall-Evans map, calculated the distance on its scale, and located the supposed mine in a remote area of which there was little or no knowledge. It would be another 10-plus years before anyone surveyed/settled the area.

 

[KY Hiker]

I have a digital copy of that map. The map has no real scale to work with, only tables of traveling distances. As with most maps of this era they are skewed East West. The waterways seem to be the routes used for survey and observation. The 60-70 miles N.E. of Martin's cabin basically puts it along the Pine Mt. ridge. As I recall from modern maps Martin's cabin is SE of Cumberland Gap. Since these older maps do not show Caney Creek and the maps are distorted East West there is no way to determine distance on the map. Also maps of this time were very valuable and not everyone would have had access or knowledge of them. Landmarks and dead reckoning were used by most to navigate long distances. There are dozens of versions of the Swift legend, this only leads me to believe they are either overt distractions to lead people away or products of descriptions given by Swift as he traveled trying to find his way back to the mine locations.

The map for all to see.
Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps Inc.

 

[1320]

Great map Hiker, thanks for the share.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ALSO... prior to 1780's, that area was COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA! "Land Patents" by the King! I think JS started his journeys from Alexandria, Va. on the Potomac River, sailing up the Chesapeake as Pirates/Privateers... getting into a NEW Enterprise for the colonies COINAGE! EACH colony wanted their own COINS, from melted down GOLD/SILVER from Pirate/Privateer loot... and the Jewelry; LAWDY! HH! Good Luck! (ANOTHER "story" for the Beale PAPERS Pamphlet... heh).

 

[jim bridger]

Now you're talking. That was my whole point. Using a map of the day, the location would be skewed from what we would measure on one of today's maps. I would lean more to descriptions given by Swift as he traveled to account for the differences in editions of the journal, if indeed he ever existed as a miner/counterfeiter, etc. in the Appalachians. Or possibly he let others read but not keep the journal and they tried to transcribe it from memory- but not very likely. On the other hand, if they were nothing but distractions, why write them at all? Just leave the place squirreled away.

 

[KY Hiker]

So anyone, what is the answer to my question? Does Caney Creek fall in the '60-70 miles NE of Martin's cabin' range? Basically is it within 70 miles of Cumberland Gap area and is it North East of there? I can't seem to find it on modern maps of KY. And what about Grayson Lake area and the recent Silver slag found, is it too distance to be part of Filson's claim?

 

[Brushy Bandit]

Laid off now been workin 6 10s and 7 12s for bout 12 weeks. I'm ready to get back at it now. I'm gonna get the two pieces of silver tested ASAP and get back with yall. Curious to see what the results will be and hopefully some kind of definitive answer will emerge about their origin.

 

[KY Hiker]

Now you're talking. That was my whole point. Using a map of the day, the location would be skewed from what we would measure on one of today's maps. I would lean more to descriptions given by Swift as he traveled to account for the differences in editions of the journal, if indeed he ever existed as a miner/counterfeiter, etc. in the Appalachians. Or possibly he let others read but not keep the journal and they tried to transcribe it from memory- but not very likely. On the other hand, if they were nothing but distractions, why write them at all? Just leave the place squirreled away.

That is why some believe that Filson himself wrote the 'Journals', as a construct to lure more people into KY to sell land. Others think Boone was in on it because while on long hunts he was known to read from the latest novel by one Jonathan Swift, Gulliver's Travels. He named a creek after one of the characters in that novel not too far from Ft. Boonesboro and the Indian Old Fields (Eskippakithiki). I think it is called Lundegren Creek or something like that.
I have trouble with both of those theories because of their known characters and status. That would be dishonorable to mislead or to make a falsehood about Silver or a fictional man and build a story about treasure to lure people into the frontier like that. It would be beneath them to do such a thing.

 

[KY Hiker]

Laid off now been workin 6 10s and 7 12s for bout 12 weeks. I'm ready to get back at it now. I'm gonna get the two pieces of silver tested ASAP and get back with yall. Curious to see what the results will be and hopefully some kind of definitive answer will emerge about their origin.

Please let us know when you do!