THE FUN POLICE
- Thread starter RotGrub
- Start date
wingmaster
Bronze Member
- Aug 10, 2009
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I guess they came in on foot right? as they wouldn't want to damage the forest so they must have been on foot.
Hoser John
Gold Member
What is the Forest classification is always my first question. Work smarter with a simple come along and save that back for other things. Fight that ticket if your not in Wilderness/Preserve/historical site designation, as engineless mandate is legal in those areas. Bummer way to end the day , don't take it laying down-John
Oakview2
Silver Member
1.How do get your sifnigant other to work so hard out in the brush
2. You have the right to access your claim. NOI my arse, and Teirney vs US FS says you cannot cvreate a significant disturbance with hand tools, and even their own handbook says that the miner and claimant determines if there is a significant disturbance. They are surface management agency and your mineral grant is sub surface. FM and feed them beans. If in Mariposa county, their LEOs are not authorized to be operating.
http://www.icmj.com/userfiles/files/USA v_ Tierney_ORDER.pdf
Forrest Circus regs, 2813.4 2813.14 - Right of Access to Claim
The right of reasonable access for purposes of prospecting, locating, and mining is provided by
statute. Such access must be in accordance with the rules and regulations of the Forest Service.
However, the rules and regulations may not be applied so as to prevent lawful mineral activities
or to cause undue hardship on bona fide prospectors and miners.
2. You have the right to access your claim. NOI my arse, and Teirney vs US FS says you cannot cvreate a significant disturbance with hand tools, and even their own handbook says that the miner and claimant determines if there is a significant disturbance. They are surface management agency and your mineral grant is sub surface. FM and feed them beans. If in Mariposa county, their LEOs are not authorized to be operating.
http://www.icmj.com/userfiles/files/USA v_ Tierney_ORDER.pdf
Forrest Circus regs, 2813.4 2813.14 - Right of Access to Claim
The right of reasonable access for purposes of prospecting, locating, and mining is provided by
statute. Such access must be in accordance with the rules and regulations of the Forest Service.
However, the rules and regulations may not be applied so as to prevent lawful mineral activities
or to cause undue hardship on bona fide prospectors and miners.
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Hard Prospector
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- Aug 29, 2012
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No doubt in my mind some other user group probably hikers, mountain bikers, bird watchers etc. heard the motor and wandered over to take a look. Not liking or understanding what was going on (based upon their lofty preconceived ideals and flat out ignorance) called out the government to "set these miners straight". Respond the fun police to stomp on our rights....Again
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Jeff95531
Silver Member
- Feb 10, 2013
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This is a very good example of "a day in the life of a miner". I'll re-post it on my Facebook. And PLP will want to hear about that too!
(I SO wanted to lend that guy my 2 ton come along.)
(I SO wanted to lend that guy my 2 ton come along.)
goldenIrishman
Silver Member
- Feb 28, 2013
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The only time a NOI is required is when SIGNIFICANT SURFACE DISTURBANCE is expected. The courts have already determined that hand tools CAN NOT cause this. Hence a NOI is not required.
Fight these idiots on the citation and then charge them with obstruction of your rights. Take some time to look up existing case law like Tierny and show up in court with your ducks in a row. You should have had someone go and call the Sheriff and possibly put the Forest Circus in their place. They would have had to wait for the Sheriff to show up if you requested the sheriff to be present and that would have tied them up and prevented them from hassling any one else during that time period at the very least. There's also a good chance that they would have walked away without writing you up because they knew they were in the wrong. Miners have the RIGHT to access their claims and if there is a road. then parking would be implied.
Fight these idiots on the citation and then charge them with obstruction of your rights. Take some time to look up existing case law like Tierny and show up in court with your ducks in a row. You should have had someone go and call the Sheriff and possibly put the Forest Circus in their place. They would have had to wait for the Sheriff to show up if you requested the sheriff to be present and that would have tied them up and prevented them from hassling any one else during that time period at the very least. There's also a good chance that they would have walked away without writing you up because they knew they were in the wrong. Miners have the RIGHT to access their claims and if there is a road. then parking would be implied.
OP
OP
RotGrub
Jr. Member
- Thread starter
- #10
John, This was on a AMRA claim and we are all over it... As for working smarter; we carry a 4 ton hand winch but a 20lb slugo makes quick work out of most boulders .It really looks worse than it is, but is much quicker than rigging and pulling. There are those occasions that we need to winch out boulders; the very hard bluish-gray ones that sound like steel when hit...
OP
OP
RotGrub
Jr. Member
- Thread starter
- #11
Oakview2, the real question is how does she get me to work so hard... The FS is way off on this one. They are not citing our mining activities. They are claiming we cannot access the claim by motorized vehicle. We are confident this will not hold water. However, we all know how the process works right? In order to defend our rights, we expend resources, go to their court, have their court side with the FS, expend more resources, go to another and perhaps another court and with persistence obtain a ruling in favor of what we and everyone else already knows to be our right...
OP
OP
RotGrub
Jr. Member
- Thread starter
- #13
I'm guessing there are many outdoorsmen; not just miners that get harassed by the FS and bend to their unlawful will... I however don't see that happing for me. That guy is me... you should give the slugo a try, by the time Ling Ling retrieves our hand winch and rigging bag, assembles the gear and begins to pull, I'm usually done with busting up the boulders... We first use the sluggo. If that doesn't cut it, we pull out a 20' strap and see if we can push/pull the boulder together (this works more often than not) and our last resort is the hand winch.
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Oakview2
Silver Member
There own regs permit right
to passage for the purpose of mineral exploration and mining
Forrest Circus regs, 2813.4 2813.i14 - Right of Access to Claim
The right of reasonable access for purposes of prospecting, locating, and mining is provided by
statute. Such access must be in accordance with the rules and regulations of the Forest Service.
However, the rules and regulations may not be applied so as to prevent lawful mineral activities
or to cause undue hardship on bona fide prospectors and miners.
to passage for the purpose of mineral exploration and mining
Forrest Circus regs, 2813.4 2813.i14 - Right of Access to Claim
The right of reasonable access for purposes of prospecting, locating, and mining is provided by
statute. Such access must be in accordance with the rules and regulations of the Forest Service.
However, the rules and regulations may not be applied so as to prevent lawful mineral activities
or to cause undue hardship on bona fide prospectors and miners.
OP
OP
RotGrub
Jr. Member
- Thread starter
- #15
GoldenIrishmen, you are incorrect. In this post constitutional era they can request a NOI or any other regulation as they wish... Yes they are wrong and they know it, but harassment is part of their plan. As I've stated in other posts, this is an AMRA (American Mining Rights Association) claim. We will defeat the FS but our victory will not prevent future lawless behavior unless the Agent(s) are held personally accountable; meaning they suffer civil damages outside of the protection of the FS. If successful, other Agents will not risk their personal assets against predictable lawless actions...
Jeff95531
Silver Member
- Feb 10, 2013
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What doesn't hurt now will later...eventually. Trust me
I like the strap pull idea tho.Hard Prospector
Hero Member
- Aug 29, 2012
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- SDC2300, Gold Monster, Sierra Gold Trac, GB2, the Falcon......and just as many drywashers
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Bullying AMRA miners working AMRA claims, of all the prospecting organizations they sure picked the wrong one to mess with.
cazisme
Sr. Member
They pull that same crap on hunters in El Dorado National forest you cannot park on the road and you cannot park off the road. Me thinks if you have a claim using a tarp under your vehicle will give you much positive reinforcement when you go to court for parking on dirt ie you will not be oiling up the dirt if your car leaks any fluids. How did the enforcement officer get to your claim? Walking? If not they are violating their own rules.
An NOI is strictly a miner's option. The Forest service can request - heck your neighbor can request - but no one can make you file an NOI. All NOIs are miner created, there is no option for the Forest Service to require one.
POOs... well that's another story.
Heavy Pans
jog
Bronze Member
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Note: Never mine alone and always have a charged up video camera on hand to video the situation.
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