The Fiction Theory

[ECS]

All of this is exactly how all of these other theories are manufactured, because there are no clearly defined limitations to limit all of the speculation. However, and still to the point of this thread, all of this still fails to incorporate/address the existing inaccuracies and discrepancies in the tale...

...and that is the major point, Bigscoop.
With all the ambiguous factors in the job pamphlet's narrative, beginning with those letters that entire tale is based, it has become the favored pastime to cherry pick historical records of the story's time period, and create alternative "possibilities" as a basis of the Beale story, creating an entirely new fictional story.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Well, MY "take" on the Beale PAPERS Pamphlet is that the FIRST part (Beale Expedition of 1817-1822, letters, box, ciphers, etc.) is/are BOGUS! The SECOND part ("It was in the second year of the CONFEDERATE WAR...") is what I "focus" on, and the places/"players" can be "confirmed" by doing R & I on LOCAL history, as a LYNCHBURG, VA "center-piece". Closer to us "in time" are the treasure-hunters (Hart Bros., Walter & Pauline Innis, etc.). To MY knowledge, PV never looked for it. His book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY is about VARIOUS theories as told to him by MANY ppl. His last book on the "BT" indicated a CSA Treasury focus; "BT" was a "code" for $$$$$$$$$$ "ear-marked" for rebuilding VMI & Lexington, Va. "Richmond Stores" was this AND! $$$$$$$$ for Lynchburg, Va., the LAST state capital of VIRGINIA, April 7-10, 1865. SO...

 

[ECS]

That is the brilliance of o the Beale narrative is presented- references that are vague which can be interpreted by the personal historical belief of the reader, yet when researched, that connection is never solidified.

 

[Garry]

I know several of you have done a "lot" of genealogy on the various players. I have a lot of trouble replicating much of the information with actual sources. I may be missing a lot of sources that people have posted in the earlier threads but actual sources seem rather sparse.

I was looking at Robert Morriss today and I was wondering if anyone can place him in Lynchburg after the 1850 census? Is there an obit, a tombstone, a record of his death date, a record of Sarah's death date, the 1860 census, etc.

I know many of you know that he died in 1863 probably in Lynchburg, but I don't know that!

Thanks in Advance, Garry

 

[ECS]

Read Franklin's "Digging the roots " thread.

 

[franklin]

I know several of you have done a "lot" of genealogy on the various players. I have a lot of trouble replicating much of the information with actual sources. I may be missing a lot of sources that people have posted in the earlier threads but actual sources seem rather sparse.

I was looking at Robert Morriss today and I was wondering if anyone can place him in Lynchburg after the 1850 census? Is there an obit, a tombstone, a record of his death date, a record of Sarah's death date, the 1860 census, etc.

I know many of you know that he died in 1863 probably in Lynchburg, but I don't know that!

Thanks in Advance, Garry

You can google, "Ron Gervais, Angelfire, Beale Treasure" a good site. And the lady that did the Beale Thread about "One closure" Rebel KGC may have a link to these sites. But anyway you can find the obituaries in the Lynchburg Newspapers and on the sites I mentioned. You can also go to the "Druguid Funeral Site" it is hard to find but they are there. The copies of their birth date and funeral expenses. I may have to go back and look myself because sometimes they list where they were buried. I know it list that James Beverly Ward paid for Sarah Morris' funeral in 1861. You can also find a lot of new information now on the genealogical pages such as Ancestry.com Good luck.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Correct, franklin...if you do come up to Old City Cemetery, where the OLD Druguid Records are, I will introduce you to Mr. Ted Delaney (Director of OCC, & AUTHOR); show you a few things of "interest" in OCC (Beale Treasure Plaque, CSA Cemetery, "hoot owl" tree pointing to that section, place where Lynchburg, Va. City employees dug for the "BT" (they didn't go down deep enough)... was to be like a funeral vault (6' down), etc. PERSONALLY, I think that what is in OCC are "Richmond Stores" from the Richmond, Va. for STATE Capital $$$$$$$$$$$$ (Lynchburg, Va. April 7-10, 1865). The REST of the $$$$$$$$$$$ for WESTERN portion of Virginia (VMI, Lexington, Va., etc) was deposited under/below the Lion's Head (Johnson Farm area), to be LATER utilized in rebuilding VMI/Lexington, Va. Yank Black Dave Hunter did a "bang-up" job there, coming down from the Shenandoah Valley; he was heading to Lynchburg, Va. where REB Gen. Jubal Early "kicked his arse" back to Shenandoah Valley & points west to West Virginia, past Big Lick/Roanoke, Va. HA!
BTW... Ron did the "ONE ENCLOSURE" thingy, will find "addy" & "post".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! 9 pages PDF; "google" One Letter, One Enclosure; Subject: Beale Treasure. "Addy" wouldn't work...

 

[franklin]

Correct, franklin...if you do come up to Old City Cemetery, where the OLD Druguid Records are, I will introduce you to Mr. Ted Delaney (Director of OCC, & AUTHOR); show you a few things of "interest" in OCC (Beale Treasure Plaque, CSA Cemetery, "hoot owl" tree pointing to that section, place where Lynchburg, Va. City employees dug for the "BT" (they didn't go down deep enough)... was to be like a funeral vault (6' down), etc. PERSONALLY, I think that what is in OCC are "Richmond Stores" from the Richmond, Va. for STATE Capital $$$$$$$$$$$$ (Lynchburg, Va. April 7-10, 1865). The REST of the $$$$$$$$$$$ for WESTERN portion of Virginia (VMI, Lexington, Va., etc) was deposited under/below the Lion's Head (Johnson Farm area), to be LATER utilized in rebuilding VMI/Lexington, Va. Yank Black Dave Hunter did a "bang-up" job there, coming down from the Shenandoah Valley; he was heading to Lynchburg, Va. where REB Gen. Jubal Early "kicked his arse" back to Shenandoah Valley & points west to West Virginia, past Big Lick/Roanoke, Va. HA!
BTW... Ron did the "ONE ENCLOSURE" thingy, will find "addy" & "post".

The KGC if they hid anything it would not be six feet deep. They always would dig eight feet or more----------that way if you dug a grave six feet deep to bury someone you would not find the treasure.

The KGC always had a famous saying "When the enemy thought they had us encircled we made a larger circle and had them encircled." Just like Nathan Bedford Forrest, "Do not wait on an attack, attack them first."

Jubal Early ran David Hunter's army across the Blue Ridge at Bobblitts Gap and through Buford's Gap into Big Lick and Salem and as you said on into Wva.

 

[ECS]

... I just don't see it as having any established direct connection to the mystery at hand.

...and that applies to this current "all in one" theory where you have combined all your previous pet theories to create an entirely new Beale story, all that is lacking are some "letters" and ciphers to solve for the unwary reader.

 

[bigscoop]

The KGC if they hid anything it would not be six feet deep. They always would dig eight feet or more----------that way if you dug a grave six feet deep to bury someone you would not find the treasure.

The KGC always had a famous saying "When the enemy thought they had us encircled we made a larger circle and had them encircled." Just like Nathan Bedford Forrest, "Do not wait on an attack, attack them first."

Jubal Early ran David Hunter's army across the Blue Ridge at Bobblitts Gap and through Buford's Gap into Big Lick and Salem and as you said on into Wva.

Get your mind off of buried treasure, there is no buried Beale treasure, never was, at least not as described in the narration.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Get your mind off of buried treasure, there is no buried Beale treasure, never was, at least not as described in the narration.

CORRECT; "NOT as described in the narration"... HEH!

 

[Garry]

You can google, "Ron Gervais, Angelfire, Beale Treasure" a good site. And the lady that did the Beale Thread about "One closure" Rebel KGC may have a link to these sites. But anyway you can find the obituaries in the Lynchburg Newspapers and on the sites I mentioned. You can also go to the "Druguid Funeral Site" it is hard to find but they are there. The copies of their birth date and funeral expenses. I may have to go back and look myself because sometimes they list where they were buried. I know it list that James Beverly Ward paid for Sarah Morris' funeral in 1861. You can also find a lot of new information now on the genealogical pages such as Ancestry.com Good luck.

Franklin and Reb,

Thanks for the reference regarding the Druguid Funeral Site, that along with some other links on that site certainly gave me a foothold. That should shut me up for a while!

I’m pretty familiar with the Ron Gervais site and I agree that it is extremely well done. While I suspect most of the information he has posted is above reproach, I know from experience, we all make mistakes.

The unique thing about Ron is that when he gets something wrong he admits it and corrects it. Case in point was his claim that Sherman previously published some dime novels. That claim is now gone and replaced with his explanation of the mistake. How refreshing!!!!

Thanks Again,

Garry

 

[Garry]

I have been struggling with one of Rebel’s favorite links for sometime now and I think I finally saw the light. “One letter, one enclosure: Subject: the Beale treasure” pdf. The pdf article was written by an author who wished to remain anonymous. I’m not a big fan of anonymous sources, so to me, it was just a nice high level overview of one person’s take on the Beale story.

The pdf was on Ron Gervais’s Angelfire “Beale Ciphers Analyses” site but I found no links on the site to the article. I asked Reb who the author was and I think he stated something to the effect that he supposed it was Ron Gervias.

On the Amazon web site I ran across this reference

One letter, one enclosure: Subject: the Beale treasure Unknown Binding – 1986

by Richard H Greaves (Author)

and below that

Product Details

Unknown Binding: 10 pages
Publisher: R.H. Greaves; 1st edition (1986)
Language: English
ASIN: B00070UV4I

https://www.amazon.com/One-letter-one-enclosure-treasure/dp/B00070UV4I

I have no idea where Amazon got their information but to me it appears that Ron Gervais created a pamphlet in 1986 and he has simply uploaded it to his web site, albeit in the background (no Link).

One of the things I was having a hard time with is why Ron didn’t provide the author’s name, if he wrote it? Now I understand that it was simply a reprint of the original article.

Now, at least I’m almost satisfied about what I’m looking at when I read the pdf.

The last hanging question mark is the Amazon information. They list the author as Richard H Greaves while we apparently know him as Ron Gervais. What’s that?

Did Amazon get bad information?

Did Ron use a nom de plume to insure anonymity?

Are we possibly dealing with a father and son?

Another small question in my mind is; What did Ron or Richard intend to do with the pamphlet? Was it published and offered for sale in 1986?

Anyway, I’m pretty much satisfied.

Garry

 

[bigscoop]

I have been struggling with one of Rebel’s favorite links for sometime now and I think I finally saw the light. “One letter, one enclosure: Subject: the Beale treasure” pdf. The pdf article was written by an author who wished to remain anonymous. I’m not a big fan of anonymous sources, so to me, it was just a nice high level overview of one person’s take on the Beale story.

The pdf was on Ron Gervais’s Angelfire “Beale Ciphers Analyses” site but I found no links on the site to the article. I asked Reb who the author was and I think he stated something to the effect that he supposed it was Ron Gervias.

On the Amazon web site I ran across this reference

One letter, one enclosure: Subject: the Beale treasure Unknown Binding – 1986

by Richard H Greaves (Author)

and below that

Product Details

Unknown Binding: 10 pages
Publisher: R.H. Greaves; 1st edition (1986)
Language: English
ASIN: B00070UV4I

https://www.amazon.com/One-letter-one-enclosure-treasure/dp/B00070UV4I

I have no idea where Amazon got their information but to me it appears that Ron Gervais created a pamphlet in 1986 and he has simply uploaded it to his web site, albeit in the background (no Link).

One of the things I was having a hard time with is why Ron didn’t provide the author’s name, if he wrote it? Now I understand that it was simply a reprint of the original article.

Now, at least I’m almost satisfied about what I’m looking at when I read the pdf.

The last hanging question mark is the Amazon information. They list the author as Richard H Greaves while we apparently know him as Ron Gervais. What’s that?

Did Amazon get bad information?

Did Ron use a nom de plume to insure anonymity?

Are we possibly dealing with a father and son?

Another small question in my mind is; What did Ron or Richard intend to do with the pamphlet? Was it published and offered for sale in 1986?

Anyway, I’m pretty much satisfied.

Garry

Sending you a PM.

 

[Garry]

Scoop,

Thanks,

I was out in left field as usual!

Now, for me, some other nagging questions involving the pdf story are being answered and make more sense.

I'll have to chew some more!

Garry

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! Richard & Ron are the SAME person...

 

[ECS]

Get your mind off of buried treasure, there is no buried Beale treasure, never was, at least not as described in the narration.

...and there is no hidden story behind the adventure treasure story in the 1885 Beale Papers, it was just a dime novel with play along ciphers sold for a limited time in a specific market for the sole purpose of making a profit.