the everything site ...?

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Blindbowman wrote

"their horrific religious practices " <from Oroblanco earlier>

now here is where we dont agree Oro . i dont see this as horrific,, diffrent then our religious practices or modern religious practices ..

You don't see mass human sacrifice as horrific? Well I would ask you, how you believe the Tlaxcalans, Zempoalans, Cingapacinga, etc viewed the Aztec practice of slaughtering tens of thousands of their people to satisfy the Aztec "gods"? There is a very big reason why Cortez was able to conquer the Aztecs with a mere handful of Spaniards, and it wasn't a few matchlock muskets!

Blindbowman also wrote

but take a good look at what their systen dose it starts with (0) before each value , Pythagoras made a common misteak , he asumed ...LOL

Well Pythagoras is not here to defend his discoveries, but it is easy to say he was making a common mistake, much more difficult to prove him mistaken. I don't see how you conclude that Pythagoras "assumed" anything about zero or how important it is.

The Mayans are not the only people to use a concept of "zero" as it can be proven that Sumerians used a symbol to represent "zero" some 5000 years ago. I can grant that PERHAPS Pythagoras could get a story of Atlantis via his father or through the usual "mariners tales" - stories told by sailors in barrooms throughout history, (or through Egypt) and PERHAPS some document (which does not survive today) written by Pythagoras was the "real" source of Plato. Assigning the genius mathematics of Pythagoras to some foreign source across the Atlantic which we have no proof of, especially the important concept of ZERO is something I can't accept as fact without solid proof.

Blindbowman also wrote

i would hope Oro and CJ and Cub and many more could help

I would love to be there amigo, but dare not make any promises. We live on a tight budget and I have a few promises to keep before I can go much of anywhere. (Can't spend another Dakota winter in an Arizona camper for one. )

Blindbowman also wrote

you have been out there 48 years did you see any UFO or little green men ,, me nether ...lol

I realize this was not addressed to me personally, I do not have 48 years of experience exploring the Superstition mountains, but I have seen what we would call a "UFO" on more than one occasion, though not in the Superstitions. No little green men to report, but that saying has an interesting origin and history for people have reported encountering such strange beings quite a few times.

Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

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[the blindbowman]

this is just a waste of time ....you wont under stand my reasoning with out knowing the facts and evidence .. and i cant post it yet ..


stay safe stay free

 

[cactusjumper]

bb,

"Fact" and "reasoning" are two different things. Reasoning is based on qualified, or sometimes unqualified, opinions. As you have no known history in this topic, your reasoning is subject to debate. That is especially true when you disagree with many, many, qualified opinions.

A brilliant man, who does not recognize his own shortcomings, is never as smart as he imagines. Your research seems a little shallow when put to the test. If that were not so, you would have no problems handling the questions and doubts that come your way.

You are correct in one thing, "this is just a waste of time".

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[the blindbowman]

bb,

"Fact" and "reasoning" are two different things. Reasoning is based on qualified, or sometimes unqualified, opinions. As you have no known history in this topic, your reasoning is subject to debate. That is especially true when you disagree with many, many, qualified opinions.

A brilliant man, who does not recognize his own shortcomings, is never as smart as he imagines. Your research seems a little shallow when put to the test. If that were not so, you would have no problems handling the questions and doubts that come your way.

You are correct in one thing, "this is just a waste of time".

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

"You are correct in one thing, "this is just a waste of time".

" a wiseman once told me a wiseman that thinks he knows everything has already failed because he thinks "

 

[cactusjumper]

bb,

Thank you for your qualified opinion.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[the blindbowman]

bb,

Thank you for your qualified opinion.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

let me ask you a simple question CJ ,, if the unprecedented, interdisciplinary study of the artifacts. The related fields of expertise included: History, art history, archaeoastronomy, ethnobotany, social anthropology, archaeology, and history of religions. The scholars, who were experts in these fields, were gathered from around the world.

if they have mistranslated the codex and are in fact proven wrong ..and i am right . will that change your opioion...?

 

[Cubfan64]

if they have mistranslated the codex and are in fact proven wrong ..and i am right

The problem as I see it is what constitutes proof and who judges whether the evidence proves someone to be right or wrong in situations like this?

In my unprofessional opinion, if "experts" in the field can have their opinions changes by whatever facts and proof you have to put forward, then I would have no problem giving you proper due for your discovery. Short of that, it ends up being one person's theory and opinion vs. other people's theories and opinions.

 

[the blindbowman]

if they have mistranslated the codex and are in fact proven wrong ..and i am right

The problem as I see it is what constitutes proof and who judges whether the evidence proves someone to be right or wrong in situations like this?

In my unprofessional opinion, if "experts" in the field can have their opinions changes by whatever facts and proof you have to put forward, then I would have no problem giving you proper due for your discovery. Short of that, it ends up being one person's theory and opinion vs. other people's theories and opinions.

i agree

 

[cactusjumper]

bb,

"If they have mistranslated the codex and are in fact proven wrong ..and I am right . Will that change your opioion...?"

Of course that would change my opinion. The problem is, you are batting zero here, and these people have years of experience in their fields, and more years researching and studying the MC2. You are basing your opinions on a few web sites, and.......visions. You have yet to provide one ounce of proof for any of your claims.

You have opined on numerous occasions that no one here can think on your level. I would tend to agree with that, and that's no slam on you, but anyone who takes your word on anything, would be very foolish indeed. As I said, you are batting zero.......so far. As a Prophet, Seer, Shaman or fortune teller, that's not so good. A good piece of advice would be to try another vocation.

The rest of us here, have to deal in reality. You make claims, say you can prove your "facts" and never produce anything except more claims and "facts". One moment you say you are going to go public with your "find", and in the next breath you are never going to tell anyone. Those are sure signs that you are talking out of your hat.

You do have one redeeming factor......for me. You make me smile.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[the blindbowman]

whats up ...?

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Well I had written a long reply but changed my mind and decided to keep it short. At least I will TRY to keep it short!

Blindbowman wrote:

this is just a waste of time ....you wont under stand my reasoning with out knowing the facts and evidence .. and i cant post it yet ..

Some folks can not be swayed regardless of what evidence is put forth, in other cases it is only a matter of presenting a strong enough case to change their views. I do have some idea of what your reasoning is, though I remain un-convinced that it is the answer, it is POSSIBLE. I have mentioned before that I don't need to see "stacks of gold bars" but DO prefer to see some kind of solid evidence to show the case; you said that you cannot post the evidence YET - well what about the Ball Court? It would be some evidence to show that you are not just blowing smoke, and it is not a "secret" as you have already mentioned it - plus it is the thing that is most likely to be discovered by other people who might happen upon it. A ball court is a fairly large item, not easily hidden and fairly easy to spot - SO.....

Why not post a few photos of the Ball Court? It would certainly add some credence to your theories, whether it is of Aztec or perhaps another tribe (Anasazi for example) it would sure help to prove your case. Just an idea, of course the final word on releasing such photo(s) is yours and your brothers.

Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

you should have stuck with the long reply ,it would make your goal less obvious...

 

[Cubfan64]

you should have stuck with the long reply ,it would make your goal less obvious...

And Oro's goal being? Oh wait, I think I know what you're getting it - Oro is obviously trying to get you to post a photo that will allow him to zero in on your site and steal your thunder by claiming it as his own.

Paranoia can be a terrible thing.

Oro - I may be wrong, but I believe at least a portion of BB's belief in his "ball court" existence had to do with his vision (for lack of a better term) of the native's running by with the bloody severed head. I have a strong suspicion that there wouldn't be much physical evidence/proof in a photo of the area anway.

Like I said - I may be mistaken in that assumption, but there's only one person who can prove us wrong and I suspect nothing is going to be forthcoming that will prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[the blindbowman]

you should have stuck with the long reply ,it would make your goal less obvious...

And Oro's goal being? Oh wait, I think I know what you're getting it - Oro is obviously trying to get you to post a photo that will allow him to zero in on your site and steal your thunder by claiming it as his own.

Paranoia can be a terrible thing.

Oro - I may be wrong, but I believe at least a portion of BB's belief in his "ball court" existence had to do with his vision (for lack of a better term) of the native's running by with the bloody severed head. I have a strong suspicion that there wouldn't be much physical evidence/proof in a photo of the area anway.

Like I said - I may be mistaken in that assumption, but there's only one person who can prove us wrong and I suspect nothing is going to be forthcoming that will prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt.

think what ever you want , if you think at all...

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Cubfan thank you - I thought my "purpose" was pretty obvious, to ask to see a few photos of the site that is the most likely to be found by others (so to post in public has little danger to his discoveries) which would carry more weight than information obtained by 'psychic' methods which we cannot confirm or refute.

Blindbowman wrote

think what ever you want , if you think at all...

Thanks for the permission, I believe we will all take advantage of the opportunity. Blindbowman you have an interesting theory or set of theories, which I find many problems with BUT have to grant that is POSSIBLE. If you had some small bits of evidence like a Templar coin you found at one of the sites, of course the archaeologists would reject such evidence out of hand but it WOULD carry considerable weight with me. You mentioned finding bits of pottery at one of the sites - have you had any of these examined by an expert? I am presuming the answer to this question is NO or you would have said so. It is also possible that you DID have them examined and their answer did not agree with the theory. If you had gotten an expert opinion that would support your theories, I presume that you would have told us so even if you would not post any letter from experts publicly.

Apparently it is too much to ask to see at least one convincing photo, or I must be trying to find out where the sites are so I can steal them. I could explain that it would be a definite financial hardship for me to go trotting off to Arizona, or that I have a great deal of work to get done before winter hits here (which is not far off) but since I cannot be trusted and thus cannot be shown any convincing photos of a site that I have no idea where it is. It is quite easy to "crop" photos so as to remove any recognizable landmarks so that is no excuse either. I must conclude that you must not have any such photographs of the Ball Court. You ought to know that IF it is a Ball Court, with the tens of thousands of people who trek through the Superstitions every year it is only a matter of time until someone else finds it, and your moment will have vanished into smoke.

I do wish that you (Blindbowman) could just for once try to put yourself in our place, but you seem un-willing to try to see things from our point of view. So we are left at a log-jam, with you being insulted or irritated by our dis-belief, and us remaining un-convinced. There is nothing I can say to you to convince you to present just a little solid, irrefutable evidence as it is obvious that you fear that others will discover your sites. I do wish you luck with your application to the FS and hope that you will publish your discoveries. I will be among the first to buy the book.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hio ORO: You posted --->

I could explain that it would be a definite financial hardship for me to go trotting off to Arizona,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you are trying to steal BB's Lost Dutchman, I may help with the trip and filing expenses What kinda split?hrhrehheeh

I don't trust Djuicy to split with me 30 70. 30 for him 70 for Me. He woud just keep it all. sigh

Gullum ? an automobile sales man ? Subject to doubt also on just that alone. he cheats little old ladies.

Besides myself, who can I trust? TT?? Cub fan? Cj? etc.

Don Jose de La Mancha

See the problems that you create BB?

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA Don Jose', Dueno de Real e Minas de Tayopa,

I would say firstly that of course, one can only truly trust one's self. In some cases even this fails. Now as to our split, whatever arrangement seems fair to you is completely acceptable for me. As I don't have a CLUE as to where Blindbowman's sites are located, it might take quite some time to actually locate them, but the Ball Court we can probably find, if our amigo BB has not been simply pulling our collective legs on that.

I guess I will ask one more question:

Blindbowman, what would convince you to post a few photos of at least one of your sites (such as the aforementioned Ball Court) here? You must know that something that size is going to be spotted and found by someone else sooner or later, so of your sites I would say this one has the highest "risk" of being discovered even by accident. Thank you in advance,

PS Blindbowman in case you didn't notice it, I was kidding - like I said, I really can't go to AZ any time soon.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy and Jose,

You guys are being way to reasonable with bb. If he had any convincing proof, he might have better luck with that permit he has been trying to get for so long. What you see, is what you get......"clams".

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

you should have stuck with the long reply ,it would make your goal less obvious...

And Oro's goal being? Oh wait, I think I know what you're getting it - Oro is obviously trying to get you to post a photo that will allow him to zero in on your site and steal your thunder by claiming it as his own.

Paranoia can be a terrible thing.

Oro - I may be wrong, but I believe at least a portion of BB's belief in his "ball court" existence had to do with his vision (for lack of a better term) of the native's running by with the bloody severed head. I have a strong suspicion that there wouldn't be much physical evidence/proof in a photo of the area anway.

Like I said - I may be mistaken in that assumption, but there's only one person who can prove us wrong and I suspect nothing is going to be forthcoming that will prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt.

think what ever you want , if you think at all...

I don't have any idea what you mean by this response.

Was I wrong in suggesting you feel Oro was trying to get you to post a photo so that he or someone else could go find your site and steal your thunder?

Where am I wrong in my other comments to Oro? All I suggested is what you said awhile back that your "vision" of the ball court is what led you to believe that's what it was. I made the assumption that since you said the site was not far off of a trail, that odds are many people have passed it by over the last 80+ years of searching for things out there - therefore it seems obvious that there is little physical evidence that could be captured on film - are you now saying that's incorrect and that a photo would show a ball court?

Lastly, I suggested that I don't expect you to be forthcoming with a photo that would prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. How is that assumption incorrect? Have you posted any photo's yet that have proven anything beyond a doubt, and have you not already implied that you won't post any photos that would give anything away?

Perhaps you took my responses as something more than what they were - all I was take words you've already spoken and put them into a more understandable post as a response to Oro.

 

[Peerless67]

We are all wasting our breath, not to mention our time, which can never be replaced
Bowman has accomplished his goal, it is evident in the fact that this is reply #751.
What have we gleaned in terms of evidence of this site actually existing?
The answer is nothing but the rantings of BB (if you exclude the blurred picture of the pottery) which was supposed to resemble the pottery used to hide the dead sea scrolls.
Think about this logically, if BB had/was to post a picture of a totem or clear picture of pottery, how would that put his site at risk.
This all started back in the 1970s when BB passed over the supers in a jet and continues to this day, he once started a thread titled "YOU ARE ALL BEING PLAYED FOR FOOLS" and that just about sums it up, we are.
There are many people on Tnet, who are serious in thier quest to discover "treasure sites" and I would guess that many of them would appreciate any input that many of you who post here can offer.
Speaking of "ball courts" why not just accept that the ball is now in BBs court and refuse to be drawn until there is something tangiable to discuss, the pottery, totem, ball court have lay undiscovered for decades, posting pictures of such finds is extremely unlikely to compromise any site, but would surely add some credence to BBs "clams" based on his writings here I would be more than a little surprised if he is granted a "premit". my guess is that once this thread dies BB will start another with some crazy idea or another, and once again everyone will be drawn, like moths to a candle flame. And I believe that is BBs real treasure, being the center of attention. Just like a court jester

Oh, and yes, to coin a phrase "I can outright prove it"