The close-ups

[Freemindedclark]

 

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[Freemindedclark]

Not what I meant. Never mind.

I wasn't trying to be a smart a#* only referring to your post that stated " that's what I'm telling you". Are you unable to blow the pictures up and zoom in. Also refer to the pics in the effigy thread of mine you posted in. There is clearly marks from being worked that have been polished or worn mostly away. I'm no expert but at the same time I'm not blind.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

I haven't even been able to view a cloud but from one angle. So that cloud that looks like Pee Wee Herman riding his bicycle with platform shoes that have the little goldfish in the heels would take on a completely different shape if you could take that cloud and view it from all sides. So comparing something like this to a cloud I don't believe makes sense.

It makes sense because it is still your imagination that you think your seeing the details you say were eroded.

 

[Freemindedclark]

It makes sense because it is still your imagination that is seeing the details you say were eroded.

Ok thanks for the help

 

[Greg Lafla]

Clark I was wrong about some things I admit it, in their way they are trying to help you and others not demean you

 

[Freemindedclark]

Clark I was wrong about some things I admit it, in their way they are trying to help you and others not demean you

I would like to think so. I have been looking at pictures of different effigies. Some of them are better lifelike representation than others. Also some of them show absolutely no visible tooling marks. Then go throw it in a fast-moving River for who knows how many hundreds of years and you're still supposed to be able to see marks that were most likely minimal to begin with

 

[Trezurehunter]

Very nice points. I like that drill.

 

[Greg Lafla]

The best information you read between the lines in this field

 

[Freemindedclark]

Very nice points. I like that drill.

Thank you. The drill has kind of a funny story behind it. I had found this little creek that had produced two points and a couple scrapers in just a couple visit. So I wanted to take my daughter out there hopefully find something and get her interested in it. We weren't there but maybe two minutes when I spotted this drill in the stream down in a hole on a sharp bend. Keep in mind this is a very small Creek and it stuck out like a sore thumb. Of course I'm super excited and don't want to quit hunting for anything. She of course did not feel the same way and wanted to leave within 5 minutes.

 

[Greg Lafla]

I was starting to get my kids involved as well

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Sorry I got upset. Check these out. This link shows a lot of Hopewell Effigies, mostly Pipes. You will see that if they wanted to depict an animal there was no doubt what that animal was. They were great artisans who went to great lengths to put very precise details on their carvings.

The pictures are of a piece of an Effigy Pipe I found years ago. You can clearly see the eyes, mouth, and lines by each eye.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hop...Lh9zbAhVBxoMKHddjCBUQ_AUIESgB&biw=768&bih=928

 

[Freemindedclark]

Sorry I got upset. Check these out. This link shows a lot of Hopewell Effigies, mostly Pipes. You will see that if they wanted to depict an animal there was doubt what that animal was. They were great artisans who went to great lengths to put very precise details on their carvings.

The pictures are of a piece of an Effigy Pipe I found years ago. You can clearly see the eyes, mouth, and lines by each eye.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hop...Lh9zbAhVBxoMKHddjCBUQ_AUIESgB&biw=768&bih=928

It appears to be natural erosion from the pictures possibly struck by an implement. I see no evidence that this was ever part of a pipe. Thanks for the link.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

It appears to be natural erosion from the pictures possibly struck by an implement. I see no evidence that this was ever part of a pipe. Thanks for the link.

Now your just being an *******. Take your rock and shove it.

 

[Freemindedclark]

Now your just being an *******. Take your rock and shove it.

Looks like someone can't handle criticism. Only deal it.

 

[Tpmetal]

It appears to be natural erosion from the pictures possibly struck by an implement. I see no evidence that this was ever part of a pipe. Thanks for the link.

Immature as all get out, the man is trying to help you here. Even IF your piece was at one time an effigy, it is so far worn and is no different in appearance than natural rock, that no proper collector or museum would even bat an eye at it for authentication. Grim, although blunt sometimes, is a good source of knowledge on this stuff, as are many others who have told you the exact same thing. Relax, let that ego go and begin learning so that you can progress.

 

[Freemindedclark]

Immature as all get out, the man is trying to help you here. Even IF your piece was at one time an effigy, it is so far worn and is no different in appearance than natural rock, that no proper collector or museum would even bat an eye at it for authentication. Grim, although blunt sometimes, is a good source of knowledge on this stuff, as are many others who have told you the exact same thing. Relax, let that ego go and begin learning so that you can progress.

Well I am terribly sorry for the banter. I apologise Mr. Reaper. I meant nothing more than to give you a little guff. I guess I assumed that we had interacted enough that it would be seen as a good gesture. I want to learn, trust me ,I do. It's to bad that what a person can learn or be tough from a web forum is very limited. Especially when the ones who supposedly have the knowledge don't know the first thing about teaching. The biggest thing I have taken from this forum is that some of the members are arrogant and short. I know I have a lot to learn. I don't feel like I have truly learned something until my questions, uncertainty, and confusions are satisfied. That being said, is it even possible for someone to help me understand something they have but only seen a picture of? I hope I didn't offend anyone that's not my intention.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Well I am terribly sorry for the banter. I apologise Mr. Reaper. I meant nothing more than to give you a little guff. I guess I assumed that we had interacted enough that it would be seen as a good gesture. I want to learn, trust me ,I do. It's to bad that what a person can learn or be tough from a web forum is very limited. Especially when the ones who supposedly have the knowledge don't know the first thing about teaching. The biggest thing I have taken from this forum is that some of the members are arrogant and short. I know I have a lot to learn. I don't feel like I have truly learned something until my questions, uncertainty, and confusions are satisfied. That being said, is it even possible for someone to help me understand something they have but only seen a picture of? I hope I didn't offend anyone that's not my intention.

I wasn't going respond to this but decided to anyway.

I am 59 years old and I have collected and studied artifacts for 53 years. I don't play games when it come to artifacts. Artifacts are the one thing I have sustained for almost my entire life. They are a very big part of me and me of them. I gave you my 100% honest opinion as have several other very knowledgeable collectors on here. I even gave you a link to actual Effigies and showed you pictures of one I have and you resort to a smartass comment. I even took the time to go outside in close to 100 degree heat to take those pictures. I don't need that.

You say some of us are arrogant and short and maybe we are to a degree. I know I can be blunt sometimes. But we see this here, on Facebook, and I even see it at shows. Some new collector that has a few Points and has hunted for say 5 years and they know it all and refuse to listen to long time collectors. If you really want to learn there are guys on here that know there stuff.

If if you really truly believe that piece is worked take it to a show or send it to Jim Bennet and see what they say. I zoomed in really close and see nothing that says man made.

Have a very good day and happy hunting.

SRV

 

[Freemindedclark]

I wasn't going respond to this but decided to anyway.

I am 59 years old and I have collected and studied artifacts for 53 years. I don't play games when it come to artifacts. Artifacts are the one thing I have sustained for almost my entire life. They are a very big part of me and me of them. I gave you my 100% honest opinion as have several other very knowledgeable collectors on here. I even gave you a link to actual Effigies and showed you pictures of one I have and you resort to a smartass comment. I even took the time to go outside in close to 100 degree heat to take those pictures. I don't need that.

You say some of us are arrogant and short and maybe we are to a degree. I know I can be blunt sometimes. But we see this here, on Facebook, and I even see it at shows. Some new collector that has a few Points and has hunted for say 5 years and they know it all and refuse to listen to long time collectors. If you really want to learn there are guys on here that know there stuff.

If if you really truly believe that piece is worked take it to a show or send it to Jim Bennet and see what they say. I zoomed in really close and see nothing that says man made.

Have ver a good day and happy hunting.

SRV

Thank you very much Mr. Sir. I do very much appreciate any and all feedback and help. Weather I agree with or understand it the same. I think it's too easy to lose, or never establish at all, the personal connection. Believe it or not I am actually a very humble and respectful person. So once again I apologize to you and appreciate the time you have taken to respond to my threads. Have a good day and happy Hunting

 

[Freemindedclark]

Just curious, how long have you been hunting? You are seeing things that aren't really what you believe they are. Yes, I see the outline of animal, or a Derringer Pistol depending on your imagination. What I don't see is any evidence of pecking, grinding, drilling, etc on it anywhere. Therefore those of us with many, many years of collecting experience know this was done by natural erosion and not by the hand of man.

It is a very cool stone I definitely would have picked it up brought home to put with my other oddly shaped eroded stones. Google Hopewell Effigies and look at the detail in actual ancient carvings. If they wanted it to look like a squirrel it would look exactly like a squirrel. They were amazing artisans and we can only imagine what masterpieces of wood they made that have rotted away hundreds or even thousands of years before we ever set foot the shores.

I recently had what I would consider a valid point Come to Me. I understand that some of the natives were very very skilled artisans and their work speaks for itself. But I would have to say they're not born with the skill. I would be willing to say that there is a learning curve to the process. I know if I look at my kindergarten artwork compared to the artwork I did in High School there's a very big difference. And I'm quite certain the same would apply to them. So to say something is not an effigy just because it's not a absolute lifelike image is not seeing the big picture.