The Case of the Missing Tree Stumps

[russau]

It's obvious on what they did with the poles BUT the stumps had to go for the Cabbage field ! BUT in the Winter they needed heat to survive so they had a big pile of stump's ! think about it .....would they let those sumps rot in the field OR sit around after being out of the ground and a VERY USEFULL fuel for a fire to keep them warm through the Winter HMMMM I don't think they were that dumb !

 

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[Armchair detective]

SO are you saying SB dug the MP, or helped the guys find/dig it and found "something" to want/need to hide the stumps, yet atleast one of the guys advised on other peoples/companies digs. The stumps would help his story as far as getting paid to help on future digs...

No I was thinking SB helped BURY an arms cache in 1782 upon finding a 200 ft deep abandoned mine shaft with a water leak at 110 ft. You'd build a "room" the between 98 and 104 ft levels for storage and repair/ add flooring to the levels (to completely cover the floor area in anticipation of the dirt load to come).
I can see a limited time that the buriers would stay quiet about a war cache THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN, but this theory has the same hole all of them do - somebody should have talked.

But maybe THIS THEORY SHALL RISE AGAIN!!

 

[pepperj]

The platforms installed every 10 feet were presumably fir saplings? approximately 12-16 ft long and say 4-6 inches in diameter. Were they cut on the island, and if so where are the tree stumps?

You have now covered many species of trees.

This post it was Fir.

Then you posted a picture of Oaks.

Then you reference Spruce.

(Apple/Orange scenario going on here regarding trees)

Another member stated Pine.

Sounds like a lumber yard where a piece of lumber is stamped SPF.

SPFs VS. SPF - Sherwood Lumber

Lumber that contains a grade stamp on its face with one of these species group designations can be quite confusing to many, which can lead to uninformed and misguided decisions by lumber buyers, retailers, specifiers, architects, engineers, builders, truss manufacturers, modular home fabricators...

sherwoodlumber.com

Now regarding stumps.
Climate, size, species, height of the cut, all have a factor in what happens.

The size that you referenced and the timeline from cutting to folks running around throwing theories out.
Well these stumps are just dust in the wind.

 

[Armchair detective]

It's obvious on what they did with the poles BUT the stumps had to go for the Cabbage field ! BUT in the Winter they needed heat to survive so they had a big pile of stump's ! think about it .....would they let those sumps rot in the field OR sit around after being out of the ground and a VERY USEFULL fuel for a fire to keep them warm through the Winter HMMMM I don't think they were that dumb !

Say does this coffee cup thing mean you are waiting for a short time for a response? I didn't know that, and maybe I still don't know that.
Around me when a farmer clears a field, he piles the stumps, lets them dry, and sets fire to 'em.
This is not a settler's way. WASTE NOT.
I wonder how wet a fresh pulled stump is - "wood" it burn?

I crack myself up.

 

[pepperj]

You are probably correct but there is one more thing to consider.
When a Christmas tree is harvested, the stump can start growing again. THEORETICALLY it might be possible to find a tree with a different amount of tree rings in the stump vs the growth on top.

Yes, another Christmas tree can grow from the stump of a cut-down evergreen tree through a process called stump culture or coppicing.
"THEORETICALLY"

Reality is they plant another seedling.

My Xmas tree permission.
10s of thousands of trees. They started replacing the cut trees with seedlings.

 

[pepperj]

No I was thinking SB helped BURY an arms cache in 1782 upon finding a 200 ft deep abandoned mine shaft with a water leak at 110 ft. You'd build a "room" the between 98 and 104 ft levels for storage and repair/ add flooring to the levels (to completely cover the floor area in anticipation of the dirt load to come).
I can see a limited time that the buriers would stay quiet about a war cache THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN, but this theory has the same hole all of them do - somebody should have talked.

But maybe THIS THEORY SHALL RISE AGAIN!!

Now your claiming there was a 200' abandoned mine shaft?

 

[Armchair detective]

You have now covered many species of trees.

This post it was Fir.

Then you posted a picture of Oaks.

Then you reference Spruce.

(Apple/Orange scenario going on here regarding trees)

Another member stated Pine.

Sounds like a lumber yard where a piece of lumber is stamped SPF.

SPFs VS. SPF - Sherwood Lumber

Lumber that contains a grade stamp on its face with one of these species group designations can be quite confusing to many, which can lead to uninformed and misguided decisions by lumber buyers, retailers, specifiers, architects, engineers, builders, truss manufacturers, modular home fabricators...

sherwoodlumber.com

View attachment 2176596View attachment 2176595so

Now regarding stumps.
Climate, size, species, height of the cut, all have a factor in what happens.

The size that you referenced and the timeline from cutting to folks running around throwing theories out.
Well these stumps are just dust in the wind.

Now your claiming there was a 200' abandoned mine shaft?

 

[pepperj]

And your point is?

 

[Armchair detective]

That was always my claim.
But back to trees...
Sorry about my confusion regarding type of tree. The best and my last info is the levels in the pit were 6" spruce. If memory serves this is what the Truro auger established they bored through the 98? ft levels going into the "room".
Didn't know I took pictures of oaks - thanks for the ID. The point was growth can happen even when trees are cut.
Christmas tree regrowth - the theory is weakest here. I once read of someone urging tree farmers to NOT pull their stumps and instead encouraged stump culture as trees would grow faster and be ready for market quicker and therefore make more money. The question is how often does this occur naturally?

 

[releventchair]

That was always my claim.
But back to trees...
Sorry about my confusion regarding type of tree. The best and my last info is the levels in the pit were 6" spruce. If memory serves this is what the Truro auger established they bored through the 98? ft levels going into the "room".
Didn't know I took pictures of oaks - thanks for the ID. The point was growth can happen even when trees are cut.
Christmas tree regrowth - the theory is weakest here. I once read of someone urging tree farmers to NOT pull their stumps and instead encouraged stump culture as trees would grow faster and be ready for market quicker and therefore make more money. The question is how often does this occur naturally?

Not sure why it's even a question.
Pine I've seldom seen anything grow from a stump.
I've seen pine in ancient stumps due to the decay making a giant stump like a planter pot .
Not the same.

Tree rings.
Your oldest cross section on a site is a record. Ring numbers only indicate age .
You're trying to grow a tree on a stump to argue what the rings should indicate for age? While you work on the Franken-theory of silviculture, let's revisit that oldest tree on site. Make it two for duplicity's sake.
What we have isn't just an estimate of it from cross section or bore hole . (Hey lets kill it or at least introduce infection some how ya know?) we also have a record of climate. See the light wider gapped ring there between tight dark rings ? That was a wet warm season of great growth in between two dark cold years . And look , several years later again.
The 6 inch post you place in a pit are long gone or mush by now. How else were they preserved in the wet ground?
Out better example of durable timber to bury in that era is what? And what lifespan average was expected based on example?
Now If by some miracle , aliens or divine intervention you presented an intact core sample or cross section of a post out of your suggested hole , we could then compare it to know samples above ground.
Compared to the oldest sample only outer rings equivalent to the younger stocks age would be of note. But still show variation due to amount of light and such. Major events would still show.

Anyone boring the earth and declaring wood cores were being made would have to convince me better than simply saying so.
I've cut from trees and played with many a post.
A six inch tree is a much smaller attempt at a timber when the sides are knocked off.
And if the sides re not knocked of a pine then don't bury in in the hopes of it's integrity lasting long.
Then it needs to be dried how long to retain it's shape if kept dry? (Don't soak it or it'll become pliable. And pliable below how much soil atop? = the shape of the letter U.

A ships carpenter might have some decent timber stashed for repairs.
Best to leave it alone , as it is to repair the ship and where is the ships home port?
There were folks elsewhere at least that cruised timber, hunting ships masts .Like most elect timber much time and effort went into selections and treatment after kills.

Have you killed cut seasoned and burned softwoods?
If so the why likely wasn't because you had acess to hardwoods instead.
But with the softwoods you learned to knock a slab off the side of each round at least. Keep it dry (out of rain/snow) and off the ground.
None of what you mentioned in your accounting of buried posts.

Study treatment of softwoods in your chosen era. to attempt below ground preservation. Then types of wood.
Then form of type. (Whole round posts? Peeled posts? Squared posts? Dried after whatever worked posts? Or green posts?
Then how much time would be required. Include any drying time or preservation method times.

But tossing six inch green pine rounds in a wet hole as a floor/buried roof over hole below , to hold much weight would be a lesson in disappointment pretty quick.
And how long do you figure the original legends posts retained their integrity in such conditions?
Tree rings and the very slight potential second growth may occur off a pine stump, pale in comparison.







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lviculture

 

[Tpmetal]

Say does this coffee cup thing mean you are waiting for a short time for a response? I didn't know that, and maybe I still don't know that.
Around me when a farmer clears a field, he piles the stumps, lets them dry, and sets fire to 'em.
This is not a settler's way. WASTE NOT.
I wonder how wet a fresh pulled stump is - "wood" it burn?

I crack myself up.

Actually it was in fact the settlers way, stumps and parts of trees not turned to lumber were burned and the ash was collected for use as potash. Especially if they had plenty of firewood that was easier to process than the stumps. For example in my area when it was settled in the 1790s to early 1800s the number one export was potash. The result of clearing land lead to the excess of wood and stumps, they burned it and used the ash or sold it to established areas that no longer had this excess of wood. So it is false to assume when clearing the land on oak island that they would just let this stumps sit around or go through the troublesome process of turning it into firewood. If it was in the way they burned it or let it rot.

 

[Armchair detective]

Abruptly I have a lot to unpack. I'll think about things for a bit.

 

[pepperj]

That was always my claim.
But back to trees...
Sorry about my confusion regarding type of tree. The best and my last info is the levels in the pit were 6" spruce. If memory serves this is what the Truro auger established they bored through the 98? ft levels going into the "room".
Didn't know I took pictures of oaks - thanks for the ID. The point was growth can happen even when trees are cut.
Christmas tree regrowth - the theory is weakest here. I once read of someone urging tree farmers to NOT pull their stumps and instead encouraged stump culture as trees would grow faster and be ready for market quicker and therefore make more money. The question is how often does this occur naturally?

We had the Eastern Ontario/Quebec ice storm in 1998.
The forests were hit hard. Tops of many trees snapped off.
Now they've grown again.
Problem is the main tree trunk gotten rot.
Many are hollow and basically fire wood.
No good for saw logs for timbers.

Xmas tree harvesting is one thing.
But for any type of soft wood that is cut below the limb level will be a stump.