The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

[rangler]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Why would anyone take the time to go to such lengths to hurt and malign this one man? Sounds like a lot of effort and to what benefit? I find ur recollections of a good friend to be respectable. But I find it hard to believe ur claim that he is somehow a... "marked man."

I dont know except he possess unusual knowledge of treasure signs and symbols - that is NOT in amy book, has deep understanding of what is really going on, and it scares some folks,they have ganged up on him time and time again and ran him off websites over the years.. for reason I dont fully understand - except that these folks were mad that information that had worked hard to find, was being given out freely by
dign.

By-the by... No one asked him to leave.

I know that is also scary, as if he is not really writing this at all!

I hope he finds the lost De Grazia works, I'd love to see an end and the truth known about De Grazia, the two Ward maps, and which works did De Grazia select to leave to legend, and there value today. Great story! And if dign is the man to find them more power to him. [/i]

I dont know for sure, but it seems like dign, instructs more than he searches..he is a doer, I know he digs. but he seems to like to give back
and help many many others. But pisses many off as well. mostly the ones who dont want information to flow that freely

Hell I ain't looking for them. And if the man wants to post here so be it. But if you call me a thief and a liar in public, including this or another public forum... I will respond.

I understand, and respect your right to do so, no one needs to mistreated or abused.

Something very strange is going on, Dign has always been generous, polite and a gentleman, while
he may be aloof and secretive, he seemed to have the need to be. He has never disabused anyone
that I know of, in all the years of knowing him.
rangler

 

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[The-Hangman]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Thank you Rangler. What is important to me is that I am not incorrectly identified as someone who mistreated and ran anyone off of any THing forum. Respectfully however I disagree with you on one point, that is your statement that... "He [dign] has never disabused anyone that I know of, in all the years of knowing him." In essence calling me a liar and a thief is in fact abusive, and no one should be subjected to that sort of mean-spirited maligning. My response was direct, curt, and in my own manner, which I admit is like the bull in a china shop, I am not one to beat around the bush to make my point. I spent to many years surviving on the street and in courts on little more than training, honesty and being above all credible. If you loose credibility in cop work, you loose your cases in court. At least that's how it use to be.

I cannot express enough that I find it honorable for you to stand with a friend at a difficult time. I just clicked on dign's profile and found that he has not terminated his membership with this forum, nor do I wish to see him do so. Perhaps he's quietly still following this thread? I'm a salty retired cop who was trained in the late 70's by older cops who'd been through the innocent times of the 50's, and the turbulent times of the 60's & early 70's. In cop work we have an old saying when it comes to conflicts with others... "No autopsy, no foul." Dign apologized so as far as I'm concerned it's case closed.

Today I make my living as a field and news editor for a THing publication and I am writing my 2nd book on the subject. As in my former profession credibility and integrity is all us non-fiction writers have. If we loose that we loose readers. So I hope you understand my position when forced into a corner where I feel I must protect myself by responding to any false accusation. Trust me I'd just as soon never have to do this again. So I think this is "Nuff said on the subject."

I got no idea how many people read this thread. But my apologies to everyone of you. What began as a thread on the lost De Grazia works turned into some else, sadly something unfortunate. This is not the place for such things, yet public forums do draw opposing opinions which in many forums, not just THing forums by-the-by, end in conflict and discord. By their very nature they are in effect a public arena. And when someone draws another out, it seems almost a certainty that the parties involved will almost always try to settle their score in that same public arena. I hope no one was to terribly offended by this thread.

As far as dign and De Grazia's lost works go I meant what I stated earlier. I hope dign is the one to find them as it seems to me that he has done considerable homework on the subject and likely deserves to, regardless of what was said here. I'd like to see closure to this treasure legend for my own personal reasons, mostly because the where and what of what De Grazia left behind is bound to give all of us, as well as his fans in the art world an inside to the man's psyche, his personality and his desire to become a part of the legends of the Superstitions!

As for me? I investigate treasure legends and do research on each case for a living. It supplements my retirement income and I LOVE doing it. I could not have asked for a better gig. But the truth is I get out digging a few times a year these days. I have less then 6 personal projects that I feel my research could actually pay off on and I don't share or go public about these projects. But the fact remains, with the exception of my few projects I am not out looking for other treasures. I'm not out looking for De Grazia's works, nor am I looking for the Lost Dutchman, or Montezuma's hoard. So from time to time its awesome to hear that some lucky THer somewhere did it right and got his or her prize! I wish this for all of you and for dign too.

Best regards,
Anthony M. Belli

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

another thread ruined because someone from somewhere else, with glowing self appointed hubris ,makes it clear, only his information is factual...

locals know nothing about their enviroment and culture...

 

[VICTORIO]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Rangler, Just Read Topic # 31. Very well said.


I have the outmost respect for " THE MAN ". His information has been very accurate at least for " for me ".

I even afford to take leave from work and help him " DIG " on any of his sites just for the purpose to learn from him. Nothing else.

I would not / Can not do that for anyone else.

 

[JDS]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

I read this and just ended up confused by all of the finger pointing. Does anybody really believe the paintings exist? I can't remember exactly when or what show but I think it was with Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show. This fellow stated very clearly he had buried the paintings and closed the entrance and anybody that found them was welcome to them. Maybe somebody with a better memory can verify this.

 

[The-Hangman]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Howdy JDS,

I have never attempted to recover these paintings myself, but many have searched for them over the years. I cannot confirm the Carson Show data, but did do extensive research on De Grazia for my story on him. It is common knowledge with the people at the De Grazia Foundation, and confirmed by newspaper accounts that De Grazia did state he hid several of his paintings in the Superstitions and that they belonged to anyone who found them. After that what really occurred is indeed a mystery. I suspect De Grazia was telling the truth and that he had a desire to become a part of the mystique and legends of the Superstitions. He certainly achieved that goal.

Good luck,
Hangman

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Hangman,

Nice pictures of Ted.

I would suggest that you read "DeGrazia: The Rest of the Story" by Carol Locust. Starting on page 139, chapter 15, Burning the Paintings, gives a detailed description of the trip she took with Ted into the Superstition Mountains to burn a number of his paintings.

There were a number of people on that trip, and it included a film crew to film part of "the Lost Dutchman's Mine story".

Carol was probably closer to Ted than any other person......including his wife. For anyone who wants to speak about the life of Ted DeGrazia, it's a must read.

Here is a picture of Ted burning his pictures:

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[The-Hangman]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Thanks for the post and photo Joe. Its difficult for me to see so many of Ted's painting going up in flames. His images of the children of the American Southwest is what made Ted famous. One of the children appeared on a UNESCO stamp in the 50's or 60's and sadly it looks very much like the little girl in your photo who is in the fire.

I'd never heard of the man until I began researching the treasure legend associated with him. I interviewed his brother by phone who remembered the day when Ted hid his paintings. Normally I remain detached from the persons / subjects I investigate, but the deeper I got into Ted's life the more I liked him. I would've liked to have known the man and to have spent sometime with him. Thank you for posting and adding the picture of Ted at Angel Springs.

BTW Joe I just ordered Carol's book and appreciate the suggestion. Though I am not, nor do I have plans of going to the Superstitions to look for the man's lost works, I do find Ted's life intriguing and look forward to reading her book.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Hangman,

I know you will enjoy the book. It's about as personal a look as you can get into DeGrazia's personal life. All was not a bed of roses in that life. Ted was a Hemingway kind of character.

Take care,

Joe

 

[The-Hangman]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Thanks Joe... Ted was commonly called "Arizona's Irreverent Angel," which is quite an interesting choice of words. After reading the book I'll drop you a message here to let you know what I think of it. BTW...
HAPPY HUNTING!

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Hangman,

Carol's book is not much of a treasure or adventure book. It's probably something that could be made into a movie for the girls, but it certainly does show DeGrazia in a different light.

My hunting days are over. I was last in the Superstitions in 2004. I keep thinking I will be better....next year, but each year it's a little worse. I did manage to find the real location of the Bully Bueno Mine over in the Bradshaws, and that's been a bit of an adventure. We have been back a couple of times since, but always on my quad. At least I can still ride.

This came out of the Bully Bueno:

Here we are in front of the mine:

Although not in the picture, we were joined in camp by Tom and Sharon Kollenborn, as well as their pup Bucky, and Bob Corbin. It was a great campout. The stories around the campfire were the best.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

SWR,

In my war room, IMHO, it would be appropriate facing any direction.

Take care,

Joe

 

[The-Hangman]

Re: The Buried DeGrazia Paintings: "Dig Here"

Hey cactusjumper,

Thanks for the post and great pics. Looks like a great time. Hang in there, I to understand how things (for me health issues) can keep a guy down. But we never know, these days I miss a few trips and make a few trips. Take care my friend.

Hangman

 

[Rattlesnake George]

Noob here.
I was searching the net for "End of the Rainbow" and found this old thread. I've seen the movie a couple times. An aging copy was loaned to me by a man that was in the movie. He played the bad guy; shooting saloon singer "Sammy Smith" as his heinous bad guy act. He is now, as I type this, in the hospital recovering from emergency surgery, I'm taking care of his personal affairs for now. His mental faculties are fading but over the past seventeen years I've known him, he's told me some interesting things about the "hidden treasure" of paintings and the locations used in the movie. One claim of my elderly buddy is that Ted used pantings that he deemed unsellable for whatever reason, in the cave-in scene in the movie. He pretty much dismisses any idea DeGrazia would have "buried" any worthy pieces. He was there, he says, when the scene was filmed. It's been a few years since I last watched the movie, and my buddy's copy is barely viewable, so I'm looking for a copy.
Fascinating thread, on several levels, btw.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

yes,very interesting read.