the amazing randi

[hung]

He demonstrated, right in front of a packed auditorium, that he could bend spoons, stop watches, and read minds with the best of them.

Actually what he did was cheap tricks of Uri Geller's renditions of a true power. I personally know people who do this and much, much more and they are no tricks at all.
Also if Uri Geller is a scammer too, you better go right now tell this to the oil companies who had in a plane for oil location from the air trough his powers. Certainly the oil location and the money they made later drilling, were all scams too.

Even did a bit of psychic surgery. Quite a show.

Did you personally witness him actually curing someone? Did you?

Errr... I could not enphasize enough how stupid, naive, gullible I would be if I was the one who was watching all this from him and 'thinkin' about it as a show.

As an accomplished magician, Randi knows all the insider secrets that many frauds try to use, and he's really good at exposing them. As such, he's made a lot of enemies who do what they can to personally attack him. Just read these forums for examples.

No, it's just the opposite. As a scam artist and cheap tricks performer he made a lot of money having people think the true gifts from some people were tricks he could replicate.

Same thing happens with me; I expose the dirty secrets of LRLs and I get personal attacks in return.

Ha,ha,ha... I knew you were a secret fan of him. This gives Dell all the reason to expose where your agenda comes from.

Yes, if you get a chance, try to see Randi in person. You may change your mind about him.

Well, I certainly would change my mind about myself.
I would wonder where my comon sense was if I decided to do it.
But I certainly would love to meet Chris Angel.
Who outpowers him by the power of ten.

 

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[Ted Groves]

He demonstrated, right in front of a packed auditorium, that he could bend spoons, stop watches, and read minds with the best of them.

Actually what he did was cheap tricks of Uri Geller's renditions of a true power. I personally know people who do this and much, much more and they are no tricks at all.
Also if Uri Geller is a scammer too, you better go right now tell this to the oil companies who had in a plane for oil location from the air trough his powers. Certainly the oil location and the money they made later drilling, were all scams too.

Even did a bit of psychic surgery. Quite a show.

Did you personally witness him actually curing someone? Did you?

Errr... I could not enphasize enough how stupid, naive, gullible I would be if I was the one who was watching all this from him and 'thinkin' about it as a show.

As an accomplished magician, Randi knows all the insider secrets that many frauds try to use, and he's really good at exposing them. As such, he's made a lot of enemies who do what they can to personally attack him. Just read these forums for examples.

No, it's just the opposite. As a scam artist and cheap tricks performer he made a lot of money having people think the true gifts from some people were tricks he could replicate.

Same thing happens with me; I expose the dirty secrets of LRLs and I get personal attacks in return.

Ha,ha,ha... I knew you were a secret fan of him. This gives Dell all the reason to expose where your agenda comes from.

Yes, if you get a chance, try to see Randi in person. You may change your mind about him.

Well, I certainly would change my mind about myself.
I would wonder where my comon sense was if I decided to do it.
But I certainly would love to meet Chris Angel.
Who outpowers him by the power of ten.

Well, Hung, can you bend spoons too, with just your mind power? Or, do you call upon little Spoon Ions rising up out of the ground?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Results 1 - 10 of about 446,000 for Skeptic Websites.

 

[rubberdiver13]

randi................your the fake......million dollars to prove your full of it ,i can prove you are

 

[aarthrj3811]

Randi is a good Magician…He has managed to hypnotize millions of people into thinking he is a genius. He has programmed them to follow his ever thoughts…They have paid all his bills and has made him a rich man….He dangles that million dollar challenge in front of these people who will cream in their jeans. He makes info-commercial showing him beating up on a dowser…When he puts these things on TV the donations pours into to his own private charity. In over twenty years not one person has taken Randi’s test…..Art

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning AA: When I was investigating the paranormal, I naturally included dowsing. In one of my personal tests I had my wife hide my wedding ring in a room while I was outside. When she called out ¨ok¨, I returned and attempted to locate the ring. I was successful 9 times out of 10, so in my mind I was ´successfully dowsing´. If Telepathy between my Wife and I was at work, that also qualifies for Randi´s $ 1,000,000.

However, I would never consider taking the test, since so many extremely powerful, negative psychological factors would weigh so heavily for failure that it is a forgone conclusion. They are well aware of this and also make the preliminary tests so vague on precise interpretation that they can disqualify anyone that shows a `possibility´ of being successful.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Carl-NC]

...and also make the preliminary tests so vague on precise interpretation that they can disqualify anyone that shows a `possibility´ of being successful.

Actually, the tests are designed so that the results don't have to be interpreted. It's a hard line; you either did it, or you didn't. This is all written into a contract and agreed to by both sides beforehand.

I try to design my own tests the same way. I use discrete trials with discrete locations. You either hit the target or you don't, there is no "close". You either do it (ferinstance) 5-out-of-10 times (or more) or you don't. No vaguity, no interpretation.

Yes, Randi has tested dowsers, many times.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening Carl : I have seen successful dowsing, and have several successful examples of map dowsing on Tayopa done by a dowser in Alaska, in which he is approximately 80% correct. I also have successfully done it myself in a few tests, so despite what Randi may come up with, dowsing does exist.

Unfortunately, while we all have the basic ability to be star baseball players only a few actually accomplish this, the same applies to dowsing. The prob. is that many untrained dowsers, after achieving a success a few times, consider themselves accomplished dowsers and try Randi´s tests, which they will invariably fail from lack of full self confidence. Being tested amid a group of so called scientists, who are openly scornful of the dowser, creates a bit of an inferiority complex which creates strong doubt in the applicant´s mind, and he ´will´ fail.

¿May I suggest the egg dowsers in Japan ? If they aren´t consistently successful they are soon out of work.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Carl-NC]

Unfortunately, while we all have the basic ability to be star baseball players only a few actually accomplish this, the same applies to dowsing. The prob. is that many untrained dowsers, after achieving a success a few times, consider themselves accomplished dowsers and try Randi´s tests, which they will invariably fail from lack of full self confidence.

Maybe. But in your prior post you blamed their failure on Randi for creating vague and impossible tests. This is not the case. Don't blame Randi because people who think they can dowse can't do it when a skeptic is watching.

I've personally tested a number of dowsers who swore they could do it, and do it easily. I always approach the tests in a very non-confrontational way, bending over backward to ensure the dowser is relaxed and comfortable. No hurry, take your time. We usually start with full-view trials where they succeed, before moving on to blind trials. Where they always fail.

Regardless of who runs the tests, dowsers consistently fail when the tests follow scientific double-blind protocol.

 

[hung]

Unfortunately, while we all have the basic ability to be star baseball players only a few actually accomplish this, the same applies to dowsing. The prob. is that many untrained dowsers, after achieving a success a few times, consider themselves accomplished dowsers and try Randi´s tests, which they will invariably fail from lack of full self confidence.

Maybe. But in your prior post you blamed their failure on Randi for creating vague and impossible tests. This is not the case. Don't blame Randi because people who think they can dowse can't do it when a skeptic is watching.

I've personally tested a number of dowsers who swore they could do it, and do it easily. I always approach the tests in a very non-confrontational way, bending over backward to ensure the dowser is relaxed and comfortable. No hurry, take your time. We usually start with full-view trials where they succeed, before moving on to blind trials. Where they always fail.

Regardless of who runs the tests, dowsers consistently fail when the tests follow scientific double-blind protocol.

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

You have many valid points Carl. However no-one successfully dowses consistently or even most of the time, on the contrary.

Unfortunately most dowsers have an incorrect idea as to why & how it works, or to their personal abilities, some go to extremes to attempt explain it, when it really is so simple. It is aparently a talent that has been with man since recorded history. It may have been a necessary survival feature then, but today it is not active unless brought out by training or exposure to it being utilized.

No-one can explain away my finding the wedding ring 9 times out of 10 to me , not even you, whose opinion I value. It happened !

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. ¿ I wonder how many try out for positions in the baseball, leagues, for those few that are selected for further intensive training? In my USAF Aviation Cadet class in the 50's, there were approximately 2500 applicants, yet only 25 of us were chosen. Does that mean that the others were without equal Pilot / Officer Qualities, or was a bit of luck involved and gradually decreasing qualifications? So it goes with dowsers. Very few have fairly consistent abilities, none 100% of the time.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Carl-NC]

You have many valid points Carl. However no-one successfully dowses consistently or even most of the time, on the contrary.

Oddly, many dowsers (esp water dowsers) claim they are successful 100% of the time.

p.s. ¿ I wonder how many try out for positions in the baseball, leagues, for those few that are selected for further intensive training? In my USAF Aviation Cadet class in the 50's, there were approximately 2500 applicants, yet only 25 of us were chosen. Does that mean that the others were without equal Pilot / Officer Qualities, or was a bit of luck involved and gradually decreasing qualifications? So it goes with dowsers. Very few have fairly consistent abilities, none 100% of the time.

Although skill plays the biggest role in these cases, I'm sure a few "luck" out.

An interesting dowsing experiment was Betz's "Sheunen" tests. He started with ~500 experienced dowsers and ran them through a pretty good double-blind test. 43 did better than chance, so he re-tested those. In round 2, a very few did better than chance, so he re-tested those. And they failed to exceed chance. Did these dowsers proceed through the tests due to skill or chance? If you look at the design of the test, statistics predicts a Gaussian distribution that results in a percentage that perform better than some threshold, if chance is at work. And that was exactly the outcome. This is why we do repeated tests, to separate skill from luck.

Self-testing is notoriously difficult to do and fraught with unintentional pitfalls. However, I'm working on an MFD design that may change the mind of even the most staunch LRL proponent. Actually, I doubt it, but it is a good way to do self-tests.

 

[hung]

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

I see you have silenced at my question, so I will assume your silence as a 'No' answer.

In this case, whatever Randi was 'performing' as 'psychic surgery' was just 'theatrics' and from the worst type. So it was a hoax. A fraud.
Since this was a fraud, everything you say he can replicate as being a trick from people who can demonstrate phenomena of gifts inherent to themselves are just cheap tricks executed by Randi trying to twist true ones.

So this pretty much summarizes what Randi has been doing all those years.
Thanks for your silence. Many times silence tells a lot.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Carl my friend, I can find no basic flaw in your reasoning except you seem to expect that the dowsers themselves consider themselves as judges as how ready and competent performers they may be. With my 90% hits, I certainly would not want to take a serious test. Preconditioning from childhood would almost guarantee a boo boo. I personally put them at about 40 - 50 % under optimum conditions. A test is NOT one of them. I imagine that all applicants for the little league teams consider themselves as top star materiel, until.....

To another point ¨not luck, but SUCCESS with your project¨ You have the ability and training. I rather believe that many do not consider your project as viable. claiming that if it were, it would have been done long ago by one of the many other competent engr´s working on the same problem.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Carl-NC]

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

I see you have silenced at my question, so I will assume your silence as a 'No' answer.

My silence was because I considered such a ludicrous question unworthy of any of my time. "Psychic surgery" is a scam of the most heinous kind. It is a scam in which people often die. It is a scam in which the perpetrator is among the lowest of all human beings. Intentional malpractice and negligent homicide only begin to describe what these people do.

If you truly believe in psychic surgery, then you are way, way farther out in the ozone than I ever imagined.

 

[hung]

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

I see you have silenced at my question, so I will assume your silence as a 'No' answer.

My silence was because I considered such a ludicrous question unworthy of any of my time. "Psychic surgery" is a scam of the most heinous kind. It is a scam in which people often die. It is a scam in which the perpetrator is among the lowest of all human beings. Intentional malpractice and negligent homicide only begin to describe what these people do.

If you truly believe in psychic surgery, then you are way, way farther out in the ozone than I ever imagined.

In the 'question for LRL users' thread, Af asked a particular question. I cared to answer him but first I needed to know his scientific view background in order to know who I was dealing with to apply the answer.
My answer to him in that thread could never been so true to you in this particular thread here. Please refer to it so you will know what I am talking about.

In an honest way, it's very hard for me to even start answering your post, facing your total ignorance on the subject and the twisted concept you have about it.

I was one of many who was healed by it. I know many people, this includes some americans and europeans who were healed by it.
Can you imagine how some people felt, being healed after some medical professional opinion discarding cure in their particular case? Can you?

From your words above... 'in which people often die', I can witness that you don't have the SLIGHTEST idea of what you are talking about.

To start with, it's not a matter of 'believing'. It's a matter of knowing about it. You believe in something when you don't have a fact to base on, only possible evidences and this is subjective.
Knowing about it is a completely different matter. It's based on real facts.

Honestly, how can I even start to discuss the science behind it when you simply don't have the basis to support the information? It would be like a 'cooking pan' with no bottom, in which everything throwed into it, would fall off.
In terms of LRL, altough you can't understand and accept it, you have a starting scientific basis, altough lacking of deeper data.
But in the case of 'psychic surgery', you don't have any. No starting point.
Actually the term 'psychic surgery' is wrong. True procedures are not made by who perform them, relatively speaking. They are just the 'interfaces'.

Obviously your answer to my question would be a 'no'. I knew it from the start. You have indirectly answered when you stated in your post that Randi did a psychic surgery 'replication'. This would be impossible as it would be a trick trying to mimic a true phenomena.
That's why I asked if you had seen anybody who had been healed by him.
You will never see him healing anybody ever with a 'trick'. He only will fool the ones who ignore how the true phenomena applies.

you are way, way farther out in the ozone than I ever imagined.

You probably still have not perceived, but your quote above fits you perfectly, with one exception... Indeed I always imagined that you would ignore this subject and some others due to your profile along the years in your own forum.
You see, with Mike Healely for instance, it would be a lot easier to start a discussion about those matters because he has some background already for this... A starting point.
In your case, none, to even start dealing with. How could I explain to you the yellow color when you only spot green?

Finally and again... There's not even a single element which IS NOT scientific in this subject. You may think this would be related to religion, esoterism, voodoo, etc. This is wrong and it's the reason I told you it's not a matter of belief, but of awareness.
I'm sure Mike Healey found out the things he knows by studying and researching by himself.
You eventually will get to this point.
Sooner or later, as evolution can't be stoped.

 

[hung]

Of course, most people already know they are crying for help but won't accept any. Like they say, almost all atheists convert on their death bed.

Wise words.

 

[Ted Groves]

Many people put science as their god. Science is like a made-made idol. Science and math is not reality as many would want you to believe. Man-made laws sooner or later are all proven to have exceptions. The idea that the ancients were stupid is totally wrong. They knew more about reality than modern day scientists who only believe what they can measure.

What an incredible amount of wisdom. And this coming from someone who didn't even finish high school.

Got any more tidbits you'd like to share?

 

[EddieR]

Many people put science as their god. Science is like a made-made idol. Science and math is not reality as many would want you to believe. Man-made laws sooner or later are all proven to have exceptions. The idea that the ancients were stupid is totally wrong. They knew more about reality than modern day scientists who only believe what they can measure.

What an incredible amount of wisdom. And this coming from someone who didn't even finish high school.

Got any more tidbits you'd like to share?

Yes it is a lot of wisdom. Anybody can see it's true (if they don't have their head up their butt ). And what does high school have to do with anything?

 

[EddieR]

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

I see you have silenced at my question, so I will assume your silence as a 'No' answer.

My silence was because I considered such a ludicrous question unworthy of any of my time. "Psychic surgery" is a scam of the most heinous kind. It is a scam in which people often die. It is a scam in which the perpetrator is among the lowest of all human beings. Intentional malpractice and negligent homicide only begin to describe what these people do.

If you truly believe in psychic surgery, then you are way, way farther out in the ozone than I ever imagined.

The above sounds a lot like our current medical establishment. There is more money in treatment than cures.