Templar Research

[lokiblossom]

yeah your probably right, I like my floating trash theory better too.

yep, trash floating from the Indian Ocean to the Western Atlantic is a lot more feasible!

Cheers, loki

 

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[lokiblossom]

Or from a ship torpedoed in the North Atlantic in WWI or WWII. Carbon dating fails when applied to organics exposed to salt water. Look it up. It can cause a 400 to 1,000 year error. Radiocarbon dating requires an organism die (that's when metabolism stops). But an object exposed to seawater keeps getting saturated with ions that mess up the sample. That's why a lab should have come collect multiple sample, not someone grab a handful and tale it to the lab. Opes the sample up to contamination and poor collection (and chain of evidence/custody).



https://www.radiocarbon.com/marine-reservoir-effect.htm

You should look it up, your issues apply to material that lived in deep seawater, otherwise, not so much! Yep, and also that is why I'm calling for another series of tests, although there have been more than one.

Cheers, loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Coconut fiber , coir, was a common component in ship construction, it was used as caulking fiber between the planks of the hull as well as other seals where it was desired to keep water tight.
it is also the only natural fiber that is resistant to salt water, so it would have been used right up to the industry use of chemicals and plastics, about the 1950’s
Oak Island still looks like an early ship yard to me.
and this could have happened with or without the Templars.

Not so, the stuff is dated to before the columbian era.

cheers, Loki

 

[Tpmetal]

Not so, the stuff is dated to before the columbian era.

cheers, Loki

well I mean there was coconuts being brought to south america during the pre columbian era right? specifically around Brazil I think. edit not brazil but panama.

 

[lokiblossom]

well I mean there was coconuts being brought to south america during the pre columbian era right? specifically around Brazil I think.

No!

Cheers, Loki

Didn't catch your edit, but yes to Panama, but only the Pacific Coast!

 

[Tpmetal]

No!

Cheers, Loki

Didn't catch your edit, but yes to Panama, but only the Pacific Coast!

got ya. Did they ever do a dna test on this stuff? can't remember

 

[lokiblossom]

got ya. Did they ever do a dna test on this stuff? can't remember

No, and that is what I'm calling for. I had a chance to do it myself back in 09 but passed, now hoping someone will pick it up and do things right.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Tpmetal]

No, and that is what I'm calling for. I had a chance to do it myself back in 09 but passed, now hoping someone will pick it up and do things right.

Cheers, Loki

oh man with the limited scope of the coconuts habitat and a few recent studies in the past 20 years tracking its dna, seems like that should be a number one priority for the oak island crew right? could even help confirm the accuracy on the carbon dating that was done I would think.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

You should look it up, your issues apply to material that lived in deep seawater, otherwise, not so much! Yep, and also that is why I'm calling for another series of tests, although there have been more than one.

Not just "living in deep water", but from samples exposed to water that has been deep. It's 6,000 meters deep along the trench from Bermuda to Halifax - and the Gulf Stream takes that same seawater right to Nova Scotia.

 

[lokiblossom]

Not just "living in deep water", but from samples exposed to water that has been deep. It's 6,000 meters deep along the trench from Bermuda to Halifax - and the Gulf Stream takes that same seawater right to Nova Scotia.

And you think coconut fibre that floated from somewhere, possibly the South Atlantic sometime after 1600, sank to 6,000 meters, stayed there for many years, rose again, floated onto the shore at Nova Scotia and then was improperly dated (twice) is more believable than what I am writing? See what I mean by finding an unbiased somebody on this forum?

Cheers, Loki

 

[Robot]

Have We all But Nuked...The Coconut Fibers Found At Oak Island?

Is it at all possible to obtain a "True" Carbon 14 dating with all the Radioactive Dump sites located around Oak Island?

"Nuclear tests, nuclear reactors and the use of nuclear weapons have also changed the composition of radioisotopes in the air over the last few decades. This human nuclear activity will make precise dating of fossils from our lifetime very difficult due to contamination of the normal radioisotope composition of the earth with addition artificially produced radioactive atoms."


Waste Waters
"In the decades after World War II, the U.S. government and licensees dumped tens of thousands of containers of radioactive waste at dozens of dump sites in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, often sealed in stainless steel drums that were expected to eventually deteriorate. A Journal review of federal and other records shows there are questions about the exact locations, contents and condition of waste containers, along with concerns about potential threats to the environment and public health if seafood gets contaminated. Federal officials say that testing done over the years hasn’t produced evidence of harm.
Over the years, federal officials have put the number of dump sites at from 29 to more than 60, with the vast majority of waste going to a handful of locations. (Some sites may have been designated without ever being used.) In 1980, the Committee to Bridge the Gap, an environmentalist group, assembled a list of 50 offshore nuclear dump sites, with specific coordinates for each site."


Nuclear Waste Dump Sites surrounding Oak Island.



Chemical Weapons Munition Dump Sites surrounding Oak Island.

Name
Off Sable and Nova Scotia Islands, Canada
Confirmed/Unconfirmed
Suspected dump site.
Dumping Country
United States
Producing Country
Undetermined
Year Dumping Began
1946
Incident Description
The U.S. may have dumped chemical agents and/or munitions near these coordinates in 1946. [1]
Est. Longitude
-61.6812
Est. Latitude
44.4169

 

[lokiblossom]

Is it at all possible to obtain a "True" Carbon 14 dating with all the Radioactive Dump sites located around Oak Island?

"Nuclear tests, nuclear reactors and the use of nuclear weapons have also changed the composition of radioisotopes in the air over the last few decades. This human nuclear activity will make precise dating of fossils from our lifetime very difficult due to contamination of the normal radioisotope composition of the earth with addition artificially produced radioactive atoms."

The key word here is "precise". In C-14 dating there is always a range given, a plus or minus figure that takes into account various scenarios. This is determined by experts in the field who are at least more qualified than myself. I do not think arguing about the validity of their findings is in any way productive unless one of you detractors can show your own qualifications are at least equal. When I quote an expert on subjects such as the source of coconut palms in the Atlantic Basin I don't attempt to show why they are wrong or for that matter why they are right, they are, qualified experts and in my humble opinion that is enough. There may be an argument as to the material tested actually being coconut fibre (although there have been at least three identifications) but the dating of that material (twice) to within the ranges given should be accurate enough to set, at least that part of the argument, to bed.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Al D]

Not so, the stuff is dated to before the columbian era.

cheers, Loki

Inaccurate dating by questionable experts....etc.
FACT: coconut fiber was used right up to and including WW2

 

[lokiblossom]

Inaccurate dating by questionable experts....etc.
FACT: coconut fiber was used right up to and including WW2

And you're not. I never said it wasn't, so whats your point?

Cheers, Loki

 

[gazzahk]

Yes I do, and I am sorry that you are still wrong. I believe that if the evidence as I describe it was presented to an intelligent and unbiased observer he or she would come to the conclusion that with a positive identification of the material as coconut fibre it would be considered viable evidence of a Knights Templar landing on Oak Island! The problem would be in finding an unbiased observer on this forum.

lol... An unbiased observer.. You have to be kidding right?

First the evidence I have seen supports the coconut fibers are from the Caribbean (According the the Museum of the Atlantic)



as to this claim

The only people trading in the Eastern Mediterranean and traveling the length of that sea and into the Atlantic was the Knights Templar

Really... No one else was trading in the Eastern Mediterranean EXCEPT the KT...

You have (Seen) evidence that the KT were trading with native Americans? Where is it?

You have evidence that the KT were the greatest sea faring trading group at the time? Where is this?

How come no mainstream historians think this?

So the Spanish, Portuguese, French were not trading in the Mediterranean at this period of time? Really.... So all other recorded European history is incorrect. The great trading nation(group) of 13/1400s were the KT. These were the only group that had ships that could cross the Atlantic. This piece of information has escaped all other historians... There is no way for example a Spanish ship could of crossed the Atlantic. Columbus obviously was a KT... Right?

The KT were basically a bunch of thugs/mercenaries that hired out to protect people in the "Holey Lands"...

Your claims are just your assertions backed up with no evidence. To say an unbiased observer would come to the same conclusion is ridiculous....

To simply claim something is true does not make it so....

 

[lokiblossom]

lol... An unbiased observer.. You have to be kidding right?

First the evidence I have seen supports the coconut fibers are from the Caribbean (According the the Museum of the Atlantic)

View attachment 1658106

as to this claim

Really... No one else was trading in the Eastern Mediterranean EXCEPT the KT...

You have (Seen) evidence that the KT were trading with native Americans? Where is it?

You have evidence that the KT were the greatest sea faring trading group at the time? Where is this?

How come no mainstream historians think this?

So the Spanish, Portuguese, French were not trading in the Mediterranean at this period of time? Really.... So all other recorded European history is incorrect. The great trading nation(group) of 13/1400s were the KT. These were the only group that had ships that could cross the Atlantic. This piece of information has escaped all other historians... There is no way for example a Spanish ship could of crossed the Atlantic. Columbus obviously was a KT... Right?

The KT were basically a bunch of thugs/mercenaries that hired out to protect people in the "Holey Lands"...

Your claims are just your assertions backed up with no evidence. To say an unbiased observer would come to the same conclusion is ridiculous....

To simply claim something is true does not make it so....

Wow, you make a lot of claims of what I wrote, but most are not accurate. As for the coconut fibre being Caribbean, if dated correctly that cannot be true as no coconuts grew there before the 16th century. Btw, it is fairly new studies that have proven that.

I never wrote nobody else was trading in the Eastern Mediterranean.

I never wrote that the Templars were trading with Native Americans, and btw, in Canada it would be "First Nations".

I never wrote that the Templars were the greatest sea faring trading group at the time.

So mainstream historians don't have to think any of the above.

The ship Columbus used was of almost 200 years later vintage then the Templar ships, but that really has nothing to do with what I wrote.

The first role of the Templars was to gather religious artifacts for a relic hungry Church as in the beginning there were only nine knights.

To claim somebody wrote something they didn't does not make it so. Chill out, it will all work out in the end.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Robot]

The key word here is "precise". In C-14 dating there is always a range given, a plus or minus figure that takes into account various scenarios. This is determined by experts in the field who are at least more qualified than myself. I do not think arguing about the validity of their findings is in any way productive unless one of you detractors can show your own qualifications are at least equal. When I quote an expert on subjects such as the source of coconut palms in the Atlantic Basin I don't attempt to show why they are wrong or for that matter why they are right, they are, qualified experts and in my humble opinion that is enough. There may be an argument as to the material tested actually being coconut fibre (although there have been at least three identifications) but the dating of that material (twice) to within the ranges given should be accurate enough to set, at least that part of the argument, to bed.

Cheers, Loki

No...The Key Word...Is Very...Difficult!

 

[gazzahk]

Wow, you make a lot of claims of what I wrote, but most are not accurate. As for the coconut fibre being Caribbean, if dated correctly that cannot be true as no coconuts grew there before the 16th century. Btw, it is fairly new studies that have proven that.

So the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic is wrong? So write and tell them that. I find them a credible source. What is your source that the fibers are from the Mediterranean?

I never wrote nobody else was trading in the Eastern Mediterranean.

So if others were trading there why are they not equally as likely to have sailed elsewhere?

I never wrote that the Templars were trading with Native Americans, and btw, in Canada it would be "First Nations".

So why were they sailing to North America then?

This quote

The only people trading in the Eastern Mediterranean and traveling the length of that sea and into the Atlantic was the Knights Templar

Claims what then? You say it is not claiming they were the only people trading… and does not claim they were trading with North America… So what is it claiming?

I never wrote that the Templars were the greatest sea faring trading group at the time.

Your argument is that they were the only ones capable of getting to Canada.. If not your whole argument that the coconut fibers MUST HAVE BEEN left by the KT is disproved. If others were capable of getting there (even accepting that your origin and date are correct) then there is NO REASON to believe that this is evidence of KT. It could have been anyone ….

The ship Columbus used was of almost 200 years later vintage then the Templar ships, but that really has nothing to do with what I wrote.

The point being that your whole argument rests on the assertion that it COULD ONLY HAVE BEEN THE KT THAT LEFT THE COCONUT FIBRES THERE… My point is they earliest known trips to the Americas were not Knights Templar…

Loki you have not offered a single piece of evidence that links OI to KT. You simply assert based on your belief that a) Coconut fibers are very old and b) No one else was capable of getting to OI at that time then the KT….
There is evidence that (some of) the Coconut fibers are form the Caribbean and that different dating’s have placed them at different ages. Therefore to conclude that the dating that suits your view is correct and the others are incorrect is baseless.

Even if coconut fibers are that old and from the Mediterranean that does not show they were brought there at that date (these were used and reused as packing fibers). The different datings support the fibers were a mixture form different locations ie mixed together. This would explain the different datings/sources.

The main problem I have with your assertion of EVIDENCE is why you believe NO ONE ELSE other than the KT were capable of getting to OI and leaving the coconut fibers there….

 

[Dave Rishar]

What ship traded in the Eastern Mediterranean and sailed the Atlantic in the 13th and early 14th century.

Are you asking what sort of ship was known to have sailed both the Mediterranean and the North Atlantic (including to the New World) during that time period? There is one for sure:



If we're simply speculating about ships and cultures that are not known to have sailed both the Mediterranean and the North Atlantic (including to the New World) during that time period, then simply take your pick of any of them. They're all equally speculative.

And no, before anyone asks, I'm not attempting to link the Norse to coconut fibers on Oak Island. I'm still undecided on those coconut fibers, as there hasn't been enough research done yet to be absolutely sure. What I'm saying is that if one is attempting to claim that the coconut fibers there have been accurately dated and are present in amounts and areas that absolutely preclude natural causes, thereby necessitating a human source, there is a society that has definitely, without a doubt, been to both of those areas during the period in question, and it's not the Templars.

I prefer answers that don't require leaps of faith. And again, I'm not saying that this is what happened. I'm merely saying that this is more likely to have happened, but as no books have been written about it, no bad TV shows have been made about it, and so most people are not talking about it.

Consider debunking this before coming up with a less likely answer.

 

[Al D]

The whole argument about the coconut fibers is over emphesized, it makes sense to consider that the C14 date of said fibers is in error.